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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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22 Jan 2015, 2:09 pm

Used to drive me crazy every year my mother would make a big deal about Santa Claus and me going to be early Christmas Eve so he could deliver presents and if I didn't do it, I wouldn't get anything. She would do everything in her power to convince me Santa Claus was someone besides her. My friends told me he didn't exist and my mom lied to me. When I confronted her with the info she went into deception overdrive and virtually brainwashed me into believing in him just so she could get to bed early.

This would have been fine except my mother was always obsessed with liars and how much she hated them. How vile she thought they were and if I lied to her, she would go bananas.

So, it's like, okay I am not allowed to lie but you can about Santa Claus and I would point this out to her but she insisted Santa Claus was real. This really disturbed me.

So what do you all think? Is it okay to lie to kids about Santa Claus just because it's Christmas and he brings them presents or should we model the kind of behavior we want kids to have and not got angry at them because they do what they see us doing?



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22 Jan 2015, 2:30 pm

There IS a Santa Claus. I saw him in our local Shopping Centre this year. He lives at the North Pole and has a factory at Lapland. I think he has a factory in Japan too, when I was younger he gave me a toy and it had "Made in Japan" on it. :o



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22 Jan 2015, 2:51 pm

Ah, myths can be the funnest part of culture for those who see them for what they are.

The magic of imagination is what Santa is all about.

And no, not all partake of that magic for many potential reasons, per nurture and nature.

It's the same thing with the mythical GOD king named Jesus.

Some folks CAN believe in myths, and some folks simply cannot, AND THEN there are the inBETweeners, as well. ;)

To understand the value of myths, is to understand the essence of truth they hold, in metaphorical way.

And that is what all the great story tellers have done throughout the auditory/ verbal OUTPuT abstract language history of human being PER MAKING IT MAGIC FOR Human Imagination to come alive in essence to manifest SOMETHING REAL, EITHER MATERIAL OR PER BASIC human emotionally driven INSPIRATION TO LIVE another NOW.

It's only stupid, if ya don't understand it, PER DEEPER DEEPER WAYS OF UNDERSTANDING ALL OF WHAT HUMAN CAN BE, IN BOTH essence and form of abstract human thought AND YES, IMAGiNATION, too. ;)

And truly some folks neither think in pictures or symbolic metaphors in life, and often have a tough time understanding any of this so-called 'gibberish' of culture, at all. :)


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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22 Jan 2015, 5:01 pm

I understand and am in touch with the spirit of St Nick. 800 years ago it was cold, it was winter, people's spirits were low; they felt all gloomy and bleak, especially in parts of Germany and northern Europe where winters are rougher. They needed something to cheer them up so along comes this Saint who would bring them presents right after the longest winter night. St Nicholas would raise the morale. And the tradition has carried over since then. When all is cold and dead, bring treats to others, experience song, dance, merriment. We need reasons to be happy when it's freezing and miserable. That is the idea behind Santa Claus.

A song in the heart and desolation becomes bearable.



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22 Jan 2015, 5:17 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Used to drive me crazy every year my mother would make a big deal about Santa Claus and me going to be early Christmas Eve so he could deliver presents and if I didn't do it, I wouldn't get anything. She would do everything in her power to convince me Santa Claus was someone besides her. My friends told me he didn't exist and my mom lied to me. When I confronted her with the info she went into deception overdrive and virtually brainwashed me into believing in him just so she could get to bed early.

This would have been fine except my mother was always obsessed with liars and how much she hated them. How vile she thought they were and if I lied to her, she would go bananas.

So, it's like, okay I am not allowed to lie but you can about Santa Claus and I would point this out to her but she insisted Santa Claus was real. This really disturbed me.

So what do you all think? Is it okay to lie to kids about Santa Claus just because it's Christmas and he brings them presents or should we model the kind of behavior we want kids to have and not got angry at them because they do what they see us doing?


I guess it is ok. Its not a crime to lie or brainwash kids with phony stories and characters like Santa Claus. But morally, it is wrong.


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22 Jan 2015, 5:34 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I understand and am in touch with the spirit of St Nick. 800 years ago it was cold, it was winter, people's spirits were low; they felt all gloomy and bleak, especially in parts of Germany and northern Europe where winters are rougher. They needed something to cheer them up so along comes this Saint who would bring them presents right after the longest winter night. St Nicholas would raise the morale. And the tradition has carried over since then. When all is cold and dead, bring treats to others, experience song, dance, merriment. We need reasons to be happy when it's freezing and miserable. That is the idea behind Santa Claus.

A song in the heart and desolation becomes bearable.


Yes, and it is worth noting that many children still live that way, across the globe, so the myth of Santa, Christmas lights in the cold dark of winter, get togethers, greater social interaction and cooperation, and smiling LAUGHING children still works the same way, now, as then, OVERALL.

At least that's what the Grinch finally came to learn, too. :)



And on top of that it is a necessary 'EVIL' to keep capitalism ALFOAT in the U.S.

So maybe your mom was just protecting Santa and COUNTRY TOO. ;)

But of course, I don't know.

BUT I do have a heart the size of 10 grinches now that I too once again FEEL THIS TRUTH, instead of worrying about the incongruent details of a life that truly is tapestry like a galaxy when seen farther away, per big picture view, than just specks of stars separated by millions of miles of SPACE.

I'm hoping you can 'see' 'that' too, for your 'Santa' 'gift' as WELL. ;)

So merry NEW YEAR, TOO to you who. :)
(adding MORE seconds to my life, per the other thread, now, too;)

Oh and I almost forgot, that myth about the King of the Universe, works almost precisely the same way, except his beard is not white. ;)

And not all children get Jesus presents, like gay kids, and such as that, sadly enough, as I don't think the REAL JESUS WOULD BE FOR ALL OF THAT. ;)


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24 Jan 2015, 6:18 am

aghogday
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24 Jan 2015, 10:25 am

SoMissunderstood wrote:


Now that's a keeper.

Thanks for linking that.

It's FASCINATING how eloquently 'people' communicate WISDOM back in 1897.

There is a lesson in that story that will NEVER EVER CHANGE.

IMAGINATION IS THE GREATEST GIFT THAT GOD GIVES HUMAN.

AND SADLY ENOUGH SOME HUMANS WORK OVERTIME LIKE THE GRINCH THAT NEVER LEARNED 'THE LESSON' TO TAKE IT ALL AWAY.......

AND FOR THE MOST PART.. THOSE HUMANS.. STAY IN THEIR LITTLE HELLS .. ON COLD COLD MOUNTAIN TOPS.. IN truly what is ANOTHER DIMENSION OF LITERAL HUMAN HELL LIFE...on earth NOW.

And that's the moral of THAT story.. to escape THAT HELL IS potential metaphorical AND LITERAL HUMAN HEAVEN.. TO paraphrase the myth OR REALITY of Jesus.. as just another imitator of TRUTH.

The myths house the vehicles and vessels of TRUTH AND THAT WILL NEVER EVER CHANGE.. AS WELL..

AT LEAST for those who do live in literal AND METAPHORICAL HUMAN HEAVEN on earth NoW!..:)..

Even if they do become as FEW as the camels 'small' enough to fit through the eye of the CULTURAL NEEDLE.

TO ESCAPE through that needle can be the job of JOB.

To help someone escape that needle can be the JOB of jobs.

Santa does that job well for little children.

Jesus does that job well for folks who remain like little children.

And the other myths that work are AND CAN BE LIMITLESS.. AS THE ESSENCE OF TRUTH REMAINS THE SAME.. NO matter the clothes TRUTH WEARS in human abstract concepts.. GENERATED BY THE GREATEST GIFT.. OF GOD.. HUMAN IMAGINATION.

BUT ANYWAY.. thanks for the Gift.. SoMissunderstood....

for the PRESENT OF NOW;)


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24 Jan 2015, 10:52 am

I don't know anyone who was screwed up by Santa.

Perhaps it's a con to get kids to behave, but I read somewhere that we humans are built for story. It's where we learn about the important things. Ever since tribal days, when stories were passed down which told of the essential truths. Myths were once an important part of the culture of a tribe. These days we are intolerant of myths, yet we still get the same input through film, tv and music - which are all modern adaptions of myth.

One of my favourite quotes regarding what matters is from the movie Second Hand Lions:

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Hub: Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good; that honor, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; and I want you to remember this, that love... true love never dies. You remember that, boy. You remember that. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. You see, a man should believe in those things, because those are the things worth believing in.


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24 Jan 2015, 11:35 am

Narrator wrote:
I don't know anyone who was screwed up by Santa.

Perhaps it's a con to get kids to behave, but I read somewhere that we humans are built for story. It's where we learn about the important things. Ever since tribal days, when stories were passed down which told of the essential truths. Myths were once an important part of the culture of a tribe. These days we are intolerant of myths, yet we still get the same input through film, tv and music - which are all modern adaptions of myth.

One of my favourite quotes regarding what matters is from the movie Second Hand Lions:

Quote:
Hub: Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good; that honor, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; and I want you to remember this, that love... true love never dies. You remember that, boy. You remember that. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. You see, a man should believe in those things, because those are the things worth believing in.


Thanks for quoting that LOVELY story from 'Second Hand Lions'...

In my little RED STATE patriarchal town.. there is NOT much room for philosophy or other IDEOLOGY beyond the way of Good 'ole' Southern Baptist talk back in the day of 1978...AND before....

BUT what there is.. then.. IS.. Radio Poets.. YES.. TRUE prophets! of the NEW AGE..;)

SO i link two of my favorites here.. both on topic.. and synchronistically meaningful.. AS 'WE' SPEAK..;)

IS IT A SIGN OR NOT..

WHO knows...;)




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26 Jan 2015, 9:42 am

No, actually I don't think it's okay.

It's one of those well-crafted rituals that adults have made up so they can get off on manipulating their children.



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26 Jan 2015, 9:49 am

You'd better watch out!
You'd better not cry!
You'd better not pout!
I'm telling you why...

The Thought Police are hunting you down!


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26 Jan 2015, 9:52 am

There is nothing at all wrong with telling your kids about Santa or the Easter Bunny! It's all part of childhood, and kids get older and usually just grow out of it. You can also kind of tell if your kid wants confirmation that he's real or the truth that it's made up, when they ask you if it's really real and you can just go with what they seem to want to hear. I remember when I asked my mother if he was real because some kids at school had told me he wasn't, I really wanted to be told he was real and she sat me down and gave me this long emotional story about how Santa is "in your heart" and all that bs and I went ballistic! Being told it wasn't true that young took away a lot of the magic of Christmas for me, so when my kids would ask, I would tell them he's real. I would do that until they were in about third grade or so and then when they asked I'd tell them the truth but tell them not to tell the younger kids. The older ones always loved joining in on playing "Santa" after the younger ones went to sleep.

It's not wrong, it's not evil, it's just a fun childhood thing to pretend.


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26 Jan 2015, 12:35 pm

Quote:
Is It Okay To Lie About Santa Claus?

Yes.


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30 Jan 2015, 1:03 am

Not gonna lie, finding out as a kindergartener that Santa Claus wasn't real was about as traumatic as getting raped as a sixteen year old boy was. I've been through some traumatic s**t but that's the only thing I can honestly say was comparable in magnitude to how devastated I was to find out that Santa wasn't real. So no, I wouldn't say it is okay.


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03 Feb 2015, 7:41 pm

It is wrong most of all because it teaches children to behave themselves for the wrong reason, to submit to being controlled by external rewards and not by conscience. The song, "You'd better watch out, Santa Clause is coming to town," threatens children with lower social rank and caste that will be defined and measured by your peers getting more expensive and higher status toys than you if you don't figure out how to please those who have more power than you. It is part of why so many children grow up to run businesses that lie, cheat, destroy public health, and do whatever it takes to be able to afford a bigger house and higher status car than those around them. We can have Christmas with all the beauty and happiness without the traditional Santa Clause controlling children with carrot sticks.
By the way, I doubt that the 4th century Bishop Nicholas of Myra, after his death having been canonized Saint Nicholas, and eventually called Santa Clause by the Dutch, would approve of the commercial Santa Clause we have today. His life story has far more to offer children as a far greater hero that the man who will get them a Nitendo video game if they clean their plate at the dinner table. Bishop Nicholas invented orphanages to replace the practice of slaughtering orphans for food. He organized cities to transport grain to cities that otherwise would have faced massive starvation in time of famine. Let him be a role model instead of the condescending Pavlov B F Skinner bell ringer he has been made to be for the convenience of parents. Do this and I'll bet we will all find the colored lights that celebrate the season far more beautiful.