Is there any proof God exists?

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Didn't the Big Bang create spacetime? Without that there wouldn't be much causality. And we both know that even if I came up with a scientific article it is unlikely that either of us could interpret the data and the mathematics, unless you happen to be a theoretical physicist.

Actually, what he's saying is logical. It makes sense. At a certain point, since infinite regression is impossible, you reach a point at which there are no causes left. Basically, if there was a first cause, what caused it? In other words, what caused God?

Except that's not a problem. Everything that BEGINS to exist has a cause. If something were to be infinite in nature, it can't be said to have ever BEGUN…it always WAS and always WILL BE. It is able to lie outside the causal chain and still initiate it. No caused first Cause is necessary. It is logical to conclude that the first Cause was uncaused.

There are also events that are probabilistic and not deterministic, such as radioactive decay. That just functions outside of causality (or maybe it has a cause that we have not yet been able to identify). Perhaps universes pop into existence in a probabilistic way, there is just no way to know right now. And to continue on my train of unfounded thought: perhaps universes cause other universes to exist. That could possibly explain the finely-tuned universe, as finely-tuned universes may be better at causing new universes to exist. Of course there is zero evidence for this, it's just something I was thinking of a while ago.

Well, yesterday morning I spent so much time posting to this thread that I was later than I wanted to be getting to my exercising. My exercising is important to me because it is critical for staying healthy, especially at my age. So, as enjoyable as it is to argue whether or not there's a magic man in the sky (or an ineffable non-corporeal intelligence outside of space and time who for reasons unknown decided to create a universe with a world as malformed as this one), I'm dropping out of this thread. I'm not leaving WP, just this thread. Have fun, all. Last one out, please turn off the lights.

Very sensible move, Daniel.

I'm sure the "Big Daddy in the Sky" would approve, wholeheartedly!

I'm sure he's laughing up there!

Now that's common sense; TAKING A 'LONG' BREAK FROM THIS MARATHON THREAD.

Even I had to compress my extreme strength training/ballet/martial arts work-out at my military gym, from three hours to ONE hour, last night, after writing over 7,000 words here yesterday, in this one LONG frigging thread.

But creative writing is what I do as joy, not task or work, as being financially independent does have its perks, no matter how much I don't care for money, ironically, and also with COMMON SENSE..

Truly the GOD OF NATURE 'WOULD' AND WILL BE 'PROUD' OF YOU FOR USING YOUR MIND AND BODY IN BALANCE, WHETHER THAN BEING JUST A TALKING HEAD.

LESSON LEARNED FOR ME, WHEN I AM TWELVE YEARS OLD, AND EXERCISING WITHOUT FAIL EVERY WEEK, EXCEPT FOR MY FIRST LOVE WHO TALKS ME (P WHIPS) ME IN TO NOT DOING IT FOR A YEAR, WHEN I am 18 years old, and that IS a huge mistake, as my executive functioning goes to HELL IN A BOX OF STICKY LOVE..

It IS almost worth it; her breaking my heart; to get my mind and body BACK IN BALANCE.

Ahh, but without the requirement to work, I have time at age 54, to do things,

FEW other males GET TO JUST DO, MY AGE.

IT'S LIKE A MID-LIFE NUCLEAR EMPOWERING EXPLOSION;

INSTEAD OF IMPLODING HEALTH IN MIND AND BODY BALANCE CRISIS, AT WORK..

YES, I ALREADY DID THAT PART, AT AGE 47, FOR AROUND 66 MONTHS, OR SO.

ENJOY YOUR HEALTH, IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN LIFE.

And truly that is my area of speciality and expertise that will obviously not be well understood,

or appreciated here, for more than obvious reasons to me, OVERALL, at least.

WHOMEVER BELIEVES OTHERWISE WITH A TALKING HEAD,

may LOSE THEIR MIND AND BODY BALANCE,

IF EVER GAINED AT ALL,

in a hell of real life now.

To live with mind and body balance

is to live like the rest of Nature

AND/or GOD BEST WHEN IN BALANCE.

AND OH MY GOD of NATURE

THAT'S JUST FRIGGING COMMON SENSE TO

END HUMAN MISERY, SUFFERING, STRIFE,

AND EVEN KILLING FIELDS OF BLOOD.

EASY IN REAL LIFE, YES,

WHEN EXERCISED FULLY IN HUMAN POTENTIAL

BUT EXTREMELY HARD FOR TALKING HEADS,

AS THE EVIDENCE DOES PROVIDE,

at least for me, HERE, IRREFUTABLY AS SUCH.

Truly folks, who have anything close to mind and body balance,

USUALLY do not mind SHOWING THEIR REAL FACE AND OR BODY, TO OTHERS.

THAT'S JUST COMMON SENSE.

But of course, I'm not saying anyone should have to DO THAT online;

to each his own will, is my philosophy on that; no matter the eventual long term consequences,

of fuller or lesser human potential.

And I am certain that THE GOD OF NATURE AGREES TOO,

AS EXTINCTION OF ENTIRE SPECIES IS A WAY OF GOD TOO,

IN ALL WAYS THAT HAPPENS BOTH REAL and metaphorically too

IN MORE FULLY ATTAINING HUMAN POTENTIAL

OR NOT.

Quite apart from the "Big Bang" being a fantastic conjecture that only exists in the imagination of certain ideologues because genuine science can show that it is philosophically, physically, mathematically impossible for an imaginary "singularity" to spontaneously turn itself into an orderly Universe.

Anyhow, the best (most precise and succinct) definition of time that I know of is "time is the rate of succession of events". No events and no succession thereof = no time. It's an enchantingly beautiful definition if you think about it.

Yes. And in addition to that it follows that anything that changes or is changeable cannot be eternal because it's never what it was and never what it will be. Also any change requires an agent to cause the change. Interesting stuff.

I don't suppose you have proof there is concensus among scientists that the BB theory is nonsense?
And time is not just for timekeeping, time is part of spacetime and is actually something "physical" as it can be altered by high gravity or high speeds.

Cannot be eternal? I'm not so sure. I haven't made my mind up on this one: If God is immutable in every sense, how could God be the Creator before the act of creation?

I can't think of a good solution to that one. It would appear that God changed with the act of creation. The only solution I can think of in which God would remain immutable and still be a Creator before/after the act of creation might be in God's eternal nature. One way of explaining God as eternal is by postulating that God exists at all points of time simultaneously. God knows the future because He's already in the future. From God's perspective, all events have already happened and are as static as written words on a page. C.S. Lewis made the analogy that if all events of the universe are represented by a line drawn on a page, God is the paper the line is drawn on. Therefore, God was already the Creator before the actual act of creation.

Probably not a very sophisticated solution, maybe not even remotely the best one, but it's better than anything else I can come up with.

heh…

Now how about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin?

I'll come back to this thread, after my porn, cup of tea, and my grocery shopping.

The incorruptile saints are examples of embalming and microclimates. Lenin is similarly preserved although not at all saintly.

Meh…you can keep the porn. Personally, I find the real deal to be much, much better.

Tea, on the other hand…that sounds good right now. I just drank the last of the day's pot of coffee and am not in the mood to brew more. I *think* I still have some green tea somewhere. Not really what I'm in the mood for, but it will do. I'd prefer a jasmine/darjeeling blend. I'll just have to take what I can get.

Can't think about groceries right now…I'm fasting for 3 more hours. Will likely skip a full dinner and just have a bowl of popcorn.

I'm enjoying my cup of tea right now. I gotta go low income grocery shopping in a bit. Noodles, KD, pop.

Ugh…don't miss the low-income shopping at all. We just buy the most-used stuff in bulk. We stock up on 100 lb. of rice and 100 lb. of bread flour at a time, peanut butter by the gallon, canola oil, and instant oats. I can stretch 6 cups of flour per week into 16 rolls for the kids' lunch boxes and two pizzas every Friday night, plus Asian-style steamed rice in the pressure cooker in less than 10 minutes. Paycheck-to-paycheck grocery shopping is really only for one meal a day+weekends, and I don't eat for 24 hours beginning Friday night. It's unreal how far a family of 5 can go on a combined income of less than $30k and no welfare.

I'd like to set aside a lot more money and massively stockpile frozen veggies and only hit the grocery for meat, fresh apples and bananas. Being broke I can handle. Being broke and starving is the scary part. One of the benefits of fasting no less than once a week is you don't take it for granted.

Any - any - act of creation presupposes the existence of causality, so to say that 'the Big Bang created spacetime' is to acknowledge the existence of causality on a level that transcends spacetime.