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Canadian1911
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28 Mar 2015, 8:07 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Canadian1911 wrote:
Actually starving, is horrible.

I wouldn't know. I've never been without food when availability of it would have been in question.

I DID successfully complete a total fast (water only) for 40 days. No doctor supervision, no vitamins. Safely reintroduced food when it was over and avoided refeeding. It's only the first two weeks that are bad. Hypokalemia started catching up with me the last week of it, but I managed to hang on and complete the 40 days. Once ketosis set in, there were times I felt amazingly euphoric. Room-temp tap water tasted like honey. It was awesome.

Would NOT recommend just anybody try it, though! lol


LOL. I've decided to make dinner: Roobeer + Noodles + Kraft Dinner. I have a funny feeling that the noodles will be more filling than the KD was. lol.



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28 Mar 2015, 8:42 pm

Lintar wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
There are also events that are probabilistic and not deterministic, such as radioactive decay. That just functions outside of causality (or maybe it has a cause that we have not yet been able to identify). Perhaps universes pop into existence in a probabilistic way, there is just no way to know right now. And to continue on my train of unfounded thought: perhaps universes cause other universes to exist. That could possibly explain the finely-tuned universe, as finely-tuned universes may be better at causing new universes to exist. Of course there is zero evidence for this, it's just something I was thinking of a while ago.


'Trollcatman', you don't sound very confident here. I had always been given the very strong impression that extreme atheists (like Dan Dennett, Susan Blackmore) believed that, regardless of the probabilistic basis of Q.M., nature was, at bottom, purely deterministic. Now you are trying to say it might not be. So which is it?

If nature is not strictly deterministic, then free will exists. Free will is an issue that makes most, though certainly not all, atheists uncomfortable.


Why would free will make an atheist uncomfortable. I'm an atheist. Doesn't the very idea of there being no God correlate directly with free will. Suggesting we didn't have it would imply that we are somehow controlled by an unseen power...



kraftiekortie
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28 Mar 2015, 9:13 pm

I'm an atheist who believes mostly in free will.



sophisticated
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28 Mar 2015, 11:00 pm

trollcatman wrote:
There are also events that are probabilistic and not deterministic, such as radioactive decay. That just functions outside of causality (or maybe it has a cause that we have not yet been able to identify). Perhaps universes pop into existence in a probabilistic way, there is just no way to know right now. And to continue on my train of unfounded thought: perhaps universes cause other universes to exist. That could possibly explain the finely-tuned universe, as finely-tuned universes may be better at causing new universes to exist. Of course there is zero evidence for this, it's just something I was thinking of a while ago.


Maybe you don't want God in your life.



Canadian1911
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29 Mar 2015, 12:49 am

sophisticated wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
There are also events that are probabilistic and not deterministic, such as radioactive decay. That just functions outside of causality (or maybe it has a cause that we have not yet been able to identify). Perhaps universes pop into existence in a probabilistic way, there is just no way to know right now. And to continue on my train of unfounded thought: perhaps universes cause other universes to exist. That could possibly explain the finely-tuned universe, as finely-tuned universes may be better at causing new universes to exist. Of course there is zero evidence for this, it's just something I was thinking of a while ago.


Maybe you don't want God in your life.


Dodging the question, plus your implying he is just disbelieving in presence of evidence - which he is not, he is disbelieving in absence of evidence.



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29 Mar 2015, 1:20 am

Canadian1911 wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
There are also events that are probabilistic and not deterministic, such as radioactive decay. That just functions outside of causality (or maybe it has a cause that we have not yet been able to identify). Perhaps universes pop into existence in a probabilistic way, there is just no way to know right now. And to continue on my train of unfounded thought: perhaps universes cause other universes to exist. That could possibly explain the finely-tuned universe, as finely-tuned universes may be better at causing new universes to exist. Of course there is zero evidence for this, it's just something I was thinking of a while ago.


Maybe you don't want God in your life.


Dodging the question, plus your implying he is just disbelieving in presence of evidence - which he is not, he is disbelieving in absence of evidence.


Sometimes, we see what we want to see.



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29 Mar 2015, 1:22 am

Lintar wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
There is no Easter Bunny there is no Santa Clause, there is no Tooth Fairy or Boogie Man, or Sand Man, Jack Frost is not real either and neither is God it is all mythology.


Otaku, this response of yours is truly idiotic. To equate God with Father Christmas just goes to show that you accept the inane ramblings of the current saints of 'New Atheism' (i.e. Harris, Dawkins, Dennett and their ilk), and haven't even made the effort to truly understand what it is you think you are rejecting.

Is this the sad, low level that disbelief has sunk to?
It is not sad it is a fact, belief is something children do so it is time to put away childish things! The stories about god and or gods can be found in the mythology section at your local library!


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29 Mar 2015, 3:04 am

^^


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29 Mar 2015, 10:47 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm an atheist who believes mostly in free will.
Hmmm. What is it and where did you get it?



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29 Mar 2015, 11:00 am

This, Lintar, might be interesting to you:

http://www.sjcrothers.plasmaresources.com/PhD.html

And his criticism of "Black Holes":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... RsGPq77X0Q



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29 Mar 2015, 9:16 pm

pcuser wrote:
Lintar wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
There are also events that are probabilistic and not deterministic, such as radioactive decay. That just functions outside of causality (or maybe it has a cause that we have not yet been able to identify). Perhaps universes pop into existence in a probabilistic way, there is just no way to know right now. And to continue on my train of unfounded thought: perhaps universes cause other universes to exist. That could possibly explain the finely-tuned universe, as finely-tuned universes may be better at causing new universes to exist. Of course there is zero evidence for this, it's just something I was thinking of a while ago.


'Trollcatman', you don't sound very confident here. I had always been given the very strong impression that extreme atheists (like Dan Dennett, Susan Blackmore) believed that, regardless of the probabilistic basis of Q.M., nature was, at bottom, purely deterministic. Now you are trying to say it might not be. So which is it?

If nature is not strictly deterministic, then free will exists. Free will is an issue that makes most, though certainly not all, atheists uncomfortable.


Why would free will make an atheist uncomfortable. I'm an atheist. Doesn't the very idea of there being no God correlate directly with free will. Suggesting we didn't have it would imply that we are somehow controlled by an unseen power...


Well, people like Daniel Dennett, Susan Blackmore and Sam Harris have said that due to the purely deterministic nature of nature, free will is largely illusory. We only think we make free, rational decisions, but that ultimately the events that led to where we are in the present had effects that ensured that we came to the decisions we made. It was inevitable that we would choose one path in life over another.

I don't believe this myself. It's ridiculously simplistic, relying as it does on an understanding of reality that is outdated (i.e. classical, Newtonian physics).



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29 Mar 2015, 9:23 pm

Oldavid wrote:
This, Lintar, might be interesting to you:

http://www.sjcrothers.plasmaresources.com/PhD.html

And his criticism of "Black Holes":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... RsGPq77X0Q


Interesting article. Saved it to USB stick. Will have to view the clip later on, it's about 44 minutes long, and I have been sitting here for hours now. Need to get out and about in the sunshine. :salut:



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29 Mar 2015, 9:26 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
Lintar wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
There is no Easter Bunny there is no Santa Clause, there is no Tooth Fairy or Boogie Man, or Sand Man, Jack Frost is not real either and neither is God it is all mythology.


Otaku, this response of yours is truly idiotic. To equate God with Father Christmas just goes to show that you accept the inane ramblings of the current saints of 'New Atheism' (i.e. Harris, Dawkins, Dennett and their ilk), and haven't even made the effort to truly understand what it is you think you are rejecting.

Is this the sad, low level that disbelief has sunk to?
It is not sad it is a fact, belief is something children do so it is time to put away childish things! The stories about god and or gods can be found in the mythology section at your local library!


Putting away childish things. Isn't that what Jesus says in the Bible? Yes, I do believe he does!



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29 Mar 2015, 10:02 pm

Lintar wrote:
Well, people like Daniel Dennett, Susan Blackmore and Sam Harris have said that due to the purely deterministic nature of nature, free will is largely illusory. We only think we make free, rational decisions, but that ultimately the events that led to where we are in the present had effects that ensured that we came to the decisions we made. It was inevitable that we would choose one path in life over another.

I don't believe this myself. It's ridiculously simplistic, relying as it does on an understanding of reality that is outdated (i.e. classical, Newtonian physics).


I tend to agree, until we can find a way to measure position and velocity of everything then we cannot as Newton thought see the world as something to be totally understood and mecahincal. However I find the concept of free will to also be rather simplistic, as at its base it treats everyone as being the same, having the same pressures, having the same coping mechanism, it does not allow for natural variances in our mental state, let alone the actions of others in determining the actions we supposedly take with a "free will".


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30 Mar 2015, 12:32 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
However I find the concept of free will to also be rather simplistic, as at its base it treats everyone as being the same, having the same pressures, having the same coping mechanism, it does not allow for natural variances in our mental state, let alone the actions of others in determining the actions we supposedly take with a "free will".
Where the hell did you get your "concept" of free will from? Mao's "little Red Book", perhaps?



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30 Mar 2015, 3:06 am

Lintar wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Lintar wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
There is no Easter Bunny there is no Santa Clause, there is no Tooth Fairy or Boogie Man, or Sand Man, Jack Frost is not real either and neither is God it is all mythology.


Otaku, this response of yours is truly idiotic. To equate God with Father Christmas just goes to show that you accept the inane ramblings of the current saints of 'New Atheism' (i.e. Harris, Dawkins, Dennett and their ilk), and haven't even made the effort to truly understand what it is you think you are rejecting.

Is this the sad, low level that disbelief has sunk to?
It is not sad it is a fact, belief is something children do so it is time to put away childish things! The stories about god and or gods can be found in the mythology section at your local library!


Putting away childish things. Isn't that what Jesus says in the Bible? Yes, I do believe he does!
The bible is childish obsolete and outdated it is nothing more than a book of mythology and fairytales as a means to guide a persons life, it is outdated and humanity no longer needs such obsolete primitive beliefs in order to get ahead in life! In short we don't need to believe in a god anymore we are more advanced and evolved to do so!


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