Page 100 of 105 [ 1680 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103 ... 105  Next

Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 57
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,450
Location: x

18 Apr 2015, 3:53 pm

AngelRho wrote:
I can understand how someone can come into Christianity from another faith or from being anti-faith. We have no secrets. It is an open book.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_as_a_business

wiki wrote:
"Envision converting to Judaism but having to pay for courses in order to hear the story of Abraham and Isaac, Noah and the flood, or Moses and the Ten Commandments. Or imagine joining the Catholic Church but not being told about the crucifixion and the resurrection until you have reached Operating Theological Level III, which can only be attained after many years and tens of thousands of dollars in church-run courses."[13]


Keeping the specifics of the religion a secret until you have paid $$$$ is just so unacceptable to me.

AngelRho wrote:
What I have a hard time understanding is how someone from another faith or no faith can get into Scientology. You can find out all sorts of things, both good and bad, about it just as much you can with Christianity. When you look at the sort of financial and physical demands they place on their membership and how they've completely destroyed lives…I mean, it seems to me you really have to give up any kind of personal identity, any kind of independent thinking, and take whatever they dish out to you in SeaOrg. There's no getting out. They'll follow you, they'll lawyer up if you breathe so much as one bad word about them, drag your name through the mud in the media.


What really mystifies me is why this is so appealing to professional actors. The grip Scientology has on Hollywood is legendary. I just don't get the appeal.



AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

19 Apr 2015, 1:06 am

Moses seems to not exist, there is no proof of his remains either so there is another flaw in the Bible!


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


Oldavid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 704
Location: Western Australia

19 Apr 2015, 3:39 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Moses seems to not exist, there is no proof of his remains either so there is another flaw in the Bible!
Did your Mum heap praise on you every time you said something really stupid?



Booyakasha
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Oct 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,898

19 Apr 2015, 11:10 am

Oldavid wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Moses seems to not exist, there is no proof of his remains either so there is another flaw in the Bible!
Did your Mum heap praise on you every time you said something really stupid?


Provoking other members is forbidden by the forum rules. Please treat the other posters with respect.



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

19 Apr 2015, 12:49 pm

Janissy wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
I can understand how someone can come into Christianity from another faith or from being anti-faith. We have no secrets. It is an open book.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_as_a_business

wiki wrote:
"Envision converting to Judaism but having to pay for courses in order to hear the story of Abraham and Isaac, Noah and the flood, or Moses and the Ten Commandments. Or imagine joining the Catholic Church but not being told about the crucifixion and the resurrection until you have reached Operating Theological Level III, which can only be attained after many years and tens of thousands of dollars in church-run courses."[13]


Keeping the specifics of the religion a secret until you have paid $$$$ is just so unacceptable to me.

AngelRho wrote:
What I have a hard time understanding is how someone from another faith or no faith can get into Scientology. You can find out all sorts of things, both good and bad, about it just as much you can with Christianity. When you look at the sort of financial and physical demands they place on their membership and how they've completely destroyed lives…I mean, it seems to me you really have to give up any kind of personal identity, any kind of independent thinking, and take whatever they dish out to you in SeaOrg. There's no getting out. They'll follow you, they'll lawyer up if you breathe so much as one bad word about them, drag your name through the mud in the media.


What really mystifies me is why this is so appealing to professional actors. The grip Scientology has on Hollywood is legendary. I just don't get the appeal.

Three words: Follow. The. Money.



izzeme
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Apr 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,665

21 Apr 2015, 4:15 am

Oldavid wrote:
izzeme wrote:
I might have jumbled a few threads, i'm discussing in several; i apologize for that; though this doesn't change my points.
What you have stated might be true in an energy-isolated system, but earth is not isolated; energy is being added constantly (by the sun, mostly), so going against enthropy is quite possible, as well as observed.
I indeed did not describe the current theory of evolution, becouse i do not know the exact definition off-hand. I do find it interesting, however, that you can claim it is impossible without knowing what it actually is...
Your 'reasons' are based on (inaccurate) assumptions and your 'evidence' is just plainly scientifically incorrect. I know i cut some corners in my own descriptions and statements, but at least i admit to it, and i do know (or know/want to find out) what the actual case is, usually. Not unlike science class in schools: if the simplified model is sufficient explanation, it is all that needs to be taught, as long as you make clear that a better definition is available.

I accept that you may have jumped in here repeating popularised nonsense without knowing what has been said in the past 100 pages.

The only energy isolated system I am suggesting for the purpose of this disagreement is the whole Universe. The closed/open system deception that is supposed to violate entropy has been exposed as a fraudulent mischief proffered by a sales team selling an ideological anti scientific nonsense. Entropy, as succinctly described by the Second LAW of Thermodynamics, is always and everywhere consistent. That's how it gets to be a law and not just a notion. I will dig up the relevant material/posts and re-present them for you if I am convinced that it might be worthwhile for me to do so.

No more popularized or nonsense than yours... at least mine is repeatably shown to be possible, which i cannot say from your 'miracles' (and no, another chapter in the same book doesn't count)

The whole universe is indeed a closed energy system (well, the jury is out on that one, but those theories are far-fetched as well, let's ignore those for now).
This does not, however, mean that energy cannot be locally accumulated. If the sun emits 10 "units" of energy in the direction of earth, and earth absorbs 9 of those, the total energy in the system decreased (by 1), yet the energy on earth increased, allowing the entropy to decrease a bit.

Oldavid wrote:
Izzy wrote:
As i stated in the post you quoted; we do not have to prove anything, since we do not claim that god doesn't exist. We simply do not believe that he does, and theists have yet to provide evidence that is both scientifically sound, independantly testable and can only mean that "god did it" (all three must apply to the same evidence before it becomes valid)

Odd wrote:
Fatuous, nebulous, smoke-and-mirrors salesman's gobbledegook.

I have simply made the case that changeable things exist therefore something caused it. You lot have merely asserted that Nothing caused everything for no reason and in complete contradiction to observed and demonstrable Natural Laws... and not a shred of reason or evidence provided to support your purely ideological belief.

Your ideology is based on exactly the same sales gimmicks as artfully contrived picture shows with pretty girls playing volleyball on the beach is meant to produce a subliminal notion that "things go better with Coke".

Izzy wrote:
I agree, "something" caused everything; i just don't see why this "something" has to be a sentient creature living outside of our spacetime.
If you read into science; you'd find that we do not claim a 'nothing', rather a 'singularity', which is a "small pocket containing everything".
A "singularity" is an imaginary, physically impossible, nonsense. Another argument for another time.
It is a mathematical concept, yes. It is being used as a simplified model (see above).
Can we agree that, for the sake of that theory, the "singularity" is "a highly dense object of relatively small size"? the exact size is not extremely relevant as long as it is smaller than a single galaxy.

Oldavid wrote:
Izzy wrote:
I must also say that i do not like being dismissed with ad-homonims the way you do: i am willing to hear (well, read) your arguments, and try to keep theists in their value while explaining them why their arguments aren't up to the task. I would like to recieve the same curtesy. There is no sense in discussing if your opponent dismisses your arguments as "male cow manure" without any more words as to why; these are the tactics of someone who knows he is losing.

Look here, cobber, if you'd been at this argument for as long as, and at the depth I have, you'd be impatient with really clever know-nothings who mindlessly repeat popularised nonsense as if it were the last word in everything also. I assumed that you had heard all the argument and blithely ignored it as is the wont of zealots of any persuasion.

The pro-god side is also full of those who mindlessly repeat what their pastor says
random apologist wrote:
It's true becouse the bible says so, and the bible is right becouse it says so itself

At least (most) scientists will have second opinions from a semi-independant 3rd party.

I do not ignore pro-god arguments as if they were zealot parroting (although many are), rather, i try to give reasonable responses to them. I am willing to be convinced, but as soon as "believe" comes into play, my initial position is lowered a lot.

Oldavid wrote:
Izzy wrote:
I do not need proof for reality: reality is what i see, and i am not denying that.
I do need proof (or at least evidence) for any and all "explanations" of reality. You claim to have an explanation, so prove it, without using your proof as its own evidence.
You have me confused with someone else here. I will contend that there is a lot of reality that you can't see... you can only know that it's there by what it does.
i might be confused, again, many concurrent discussions and answering several people in one post...

I can agree there, i also feel like there is more than i can see, but there is no evidence, so i don't put it up as argumentation, only as speculation in relevant situations (which this is not).

If you bring up something unseen which can be seen by what it does, sure. explain what i missed, and how the things we see prove their existence, without some other effect doing the same (see dark energy; science allows such ideas)



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,563

21 Apr 2015, 8:36 am

It is truly interesting to me to see anyone discount the REAL power of belief as a human emotion but I do look to science for those answers too.

The placebo effect AND affect is as real as the nocebo affect AND effect; and interestingly enough, the Nocebo effect and affect often gets more attention when presented than the placebo affect and effect; AS EFFECT.

BOTH THE 'VOODOO' AND 'PRAYER' EFFECT FROM EMOTIONAL AFFECT, can at least, be partially explained by the Nocebo and Placebo effect OF EMOTIONAL AFFECT.

BUT DO NOT take my word for it please; take the 'word of science' that PROVIDES EVIDENCE FOR BOTH OF THESE INTERESTING HUMAN AFFECTS AND EFFECTS OF NOCEBO AND PLACEBO.



MORE interesting, perhaps, is that some research shows that up to two-thirds of the general population do NOT RECEIVE BENEFITS FROM THE PLACEBO OR NOCEBO AFFECT, AS THEY OBVIOUSLY DO NOT EXPERIENCE THE REAL EMOTIONS OF Faith, Belief, and Hope that are all part of the emotional human pie for at least a third of the population or so.

And for anyone who peruses the labels of psychotropic drugs one will clearly see they are only effective several percentage points OVER THE VERY REAL ORGANIC AND BIOLOGICAL EMOTIONAL AFFECT OF FAITH, HOPE, AND BELIEF AS THE EMOTIONAL AFFECT OF THE PLACEBO EFFECT OF THIS EMOTIONAL AFFECT.

AND THE FACT that psychotropic drugs are at most considered effective among less than a third of the subjects they are experimented on, also leads credence to the hypothesis that the PLACEBO EFFECT OF AFFECT IS STILL MOSTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE POSITIVE EMOTIONAL EFFECT OF AFFECT IN HEALING, OVERALL, FOR ANYONE WHO BENEFITS FROM THESE DRUGS.

SO, INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON THE DRUGS SO MUCH, if science could look to the root cause of why some folks benefit from the emotions of faith, hope and belief and some FOLKS DO NOT, IF FINDING AN ANSWER TO THIS IS AN ALL NATURAL BIOLOGICAL ANSWER INSTEAD OF ONE WITH A BIG DRUG COMPANY ANSWER, THE HEALING COULD BE GREATER PARTICIPATED IN BY ALL, AS TOTALLY FREE, in dollar amounts, if one learns a way to regulate their emotions and enhance the positive ones for internal healing from all disorder and disease, at least in part.

And DUH, guess what; they already do that in Eastern Philosophies and religions and have done that for thousands of years in increasing the kind of physical intelligence where an individual gains mastery over their emotions and senses by regulating them and integrating them through the discipline of creative arts in expanding greater physical intelligence for mind and body balance.

These folks are referred to as ZEN masters in real life; 'Yoda' for fictional larger society consumption, and the like, like Bruce Lee, and the old dude that helps the 'Karate KID'.

But NEVER THE LESS, IT WORKS, and although I have no masters to teach me, it is all GOD OF NATURE GIVEN THROUGH INNATE INSTINCT AND INTUITION;

NO DIFFERENT, overall, THAN OTHER ANIMALS WHO NATURALLY FIND WAYS TO HEAL THEIR SELVES IN THEIR ALL NATURAL ENVIRONMENT.

THIS IS NOTHING NEW, AND EVEN SCIENCE in the latest 'DISCOVERY MAGAZINE' SHOWS HOW MODERN HUMANS ARE MUCH weaker than their ancestors in gaining 'natural resistance' to disease, as we try to take short cuts with 'Big Pharma' answers in PILLS and anti-bacterial soaps, and such as that;

THAT DO work, for the short term; but may have catastrophic consequences in the LONG TERM OF HUMAN SURVIVAL, WHERE THE ADAPTATION TO STRUGGLE IS AN INTERNAL ONE, AND NOT THE MEASURE OF A PILL IN A BOTTLE, FOR A QUICK SOLUTION TO A PROBLEM OF LIVING AND alternatively NATURALLY OVERCOMING STRUGGLES, AS 'WELL'.

THIS question of whether or not there is Proof of GOD, per an all natural GOD and the HIGHER EFFECTIVE power of the real AFFECT of HUMAN emotions of FAITH, HOPE AND BELIEF, AS WHAT SCIENCE PROVIDES EVIDENCE for, as an all natural higher power of the all Natural Force of GOD manifest in at least some human beings,

AT THIS POINT THAT natural selection and evolution of the all Natural Force of GOD provides to so-called 'chosen' ones, has real empirical evidence to SCRIBE THAT PART OF THE ALL NATURAL GOD, TOO.

BUT if we have common sense, 'we' WILL FIND WAYS TO INCREASE THE PLACEBO EFFECT OF emotional affect and find out why some folks can benefit and others cannot, as well as decreasing the NOCEBO EFFECT OF NEGATIVE EMOTIONAL AFFECT by doing the same.

Meanwhile there IS SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FOR MUCH OF WHAT RELIGION SPEAKS TO ABOUT PRAYER AND POSITIVE BELIEF AND THE SO-CALLED DEVIL STUFF OF NEGATIVE BELIEF IN THE 'NUT SHELL' THAT IS THE REAL ALL 'NATURAL SHELL' OF HUMAN EMOTIONS ASSOCIATED WITH BOTH THE positive Placebo effect of emotional affect and the negative Nocebo effect of emotional affect.

There really is NO QUESTION THAT PRAYER WORKS ON A PERSONAL LEVEL although there is truly nothing that can be done, it seems, from the perspective of science, at this point or fundamentalist religion for the ones who are

NOT 'CHOSEN' AT THIS POINT, BY THE ALL NATURAL GOD OF NATURAL SELECTION AND EVOLUTION FOR THOSE who sadly do not have these gifts that can be both positive in 'personal prayer' and negative, per the real nocebo effect of affect of the 'Voodoo doll' and someone believing that the 'Voodoo doll has real negative NOCEBO EFFECT OF EMOTIONAL AFFECT IN POWER OVER THEM, TO BRING DISORDER AND DISEASE or accidents

OR whatever else a negative emotional state of mind WILL 'EMOTINGLY DRIVE' IN REAL LIFE ACTION.

BUT ANYWAY, here is the evidence on the Nocebo effect of emotional affect, AS PRESENTED IN THE VIDEO ABOVE.

It's not something to 'sneeze at'; it is something to pay real close attention to; particularly for those who are 'CHOSEN ONES' AS SUCH.

FOR EVERYONE ELSE, PERHAPS both GOD in the traditional sense of the reward of that higher power of GOD, and the 'Devil stuff', is all a moot point.

AND some limited science does suggest that folks on the Autism Spectrum, overall, are less susceptible to the effects of OF THE emotional affect of both suggestion in hypnosis and the placebo effect of emotional affect that truly are the 'same species' of the so-called higher potential of the all NATURAL GOD EFFECT OF EMOTIONAL AFFECT GIFTED TO THOSE SO-CALLED 'CHOSEN ONES'.

AND OF COURSE, all it takes is innate instinct and intuition to understand this, and this is why we have been hearing about the power of faith, hope and belief in religious text of language and other symbols for thousands of years.

Sure, one can discount a 'bearded sky daddy', but ya CANNOT REASONABLY DISCOUNT THE HIGHER POWER OF THE ALL NATURAL GOD FOR THOSE who are both all naturally gifted with these powerful emotions of relative human free will, faith, hope and belief, and can AND DO REAP THE POTENTIAL ALL NATURAL REWARDS AND PENALTIES, AS THE 'CHOSEN ONES'.

I DEVELOP an all natural innate, instinctual and intuitive internal discipline to enhance the placebo effect of affect, as I am one of those 'chosen ones' who are both gifted with that all natural higher power of EFFECT FROM the EMOTIONAL AFFECTS of the REAL ORGANIC EMOTIONS OF FAITH, HOPE AND BELIEF;

AND I CONTINUE TO DEVELOP THE INTERNAL EMOTIONAL POWER OF RELATIVE HUMAN FREE WILL TO REGULATE THOSE EMOTIONS HIGHER, PER POSITIVE EFFECT OF EMOTIONAL AFFECT THROUGH IMAGINATIVELY AND CREATIVELY BALANCING THOSE EMOTIONS AND ASSOCIATED SENSES

THROUGH much greater COGNITIVE disciplines associated with physical intelligence that science is now starting to suggest does regulate emotions, integrate senses, and increases cognitive executive functioning through greater focus and short term working memory.

Truly, it is exciting to be 'on the cutting edge' of this new frontier of science, where the answers may lie within for many people, and possibly more in healing internally, instead of from really expensive 'GET RICH QUICK' ANSWERS IN PILLS THAT ARE NOT MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE THAN THE PLACEBO AFFECT OF EFFECT IN THE FRIGGING FIRST PLACE, in some cases, at least.

AND FOR FULL DISCLAIMER AND DISCLOSURE, THIS obviously does not work for everyone, as science provides some evidence for that not all all are 'chosen' to receive these gifts of the healing AFFECTIVE POWER OF the real organic emotions of FAITH, HOPE AND BELIEF, AS the so-called higher power of GOD.

And for those who do receive these gifts; those who help themselves receive the greatest benefits, per the same advice that the Gnostic Jesus gives in highly metaphorical ways in 'those sacred truly MEANINGFUL AND VALUABLE TEXTS', FOR ADVICE AS WELL.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm

SO THERE'S 'YoUR' PROOF; BELIEVE IN IT, IF one CAN.

IF one CANNOT BELIEVE IN IT, PERHAPS THE SCRIBE OF GOD, ALSO KNOWN AS SCIENCE
HAS THAT ANSWER TOO.

THE WORLD, PER ONE LIFETIME, GIFTED BY GOD, to each unique human, is not necessarily fair.

And if there is fairness it CAN only be done through SO-CALLED Karma and other lifetimes,

as a fuller whole
process of OVERALL EXISTENCE.

But no one has evidence for that; as that is far beyond the pay-grade of scientists to figure out for sure;
as no one has a hold of what is fully possible in the span of forever that is suggested by science as well, as
Infinity NOW.

So meanwhile, I'll focus on now,
like the gnostic Jesus and literally thousands
of other philosophers/sages THROUGH THE AGES suggest IS REAL, AND
I WILL keep my all natural miracles GOING STRONG, AND GETTING STRONGER THROUGH
GREATER AND GREATER DISCIPLINES OF PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE IN INCREASING MIND AND BODY BALANCE
that I provide evidence for in this thread, 'ad-naseum', coming through THOSE internal disciplines of all natural innate instinctual and intuitive physical intelligence; while others sit on the side-lines of life, either believing or without the ability to even believe with the emotional powers of faith and hope,

@ALL AKA the higher power of GOD, manifest in 'chosen' human beings.

So yeah, science, the scribe of the all natural force of GOD manifest in human being IS slowly becoming
one force of assistance for

humankind, TOO.

And that's kinda nice,

at least for those WHO HAVE THE EMOTIONAL POWERS

OF RELATIVE HUMAN FREE WILL, FAITH, HOPE, AND BELIEF.

I SUPPOSE all I can do for the rest, is pray,

whether that is of any real assistance or

NOT.

BUT like science

and the scientists who

believe in the tools of science, I

will NOT
GIVE
UP..;)

either....:)


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


pcuser
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2014
Age: 73
Gender: Male
Posts: 913

21 Apr 2015, 9:35 am

Still arguing...



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,563

21 Apr 2015, 11:07 am

pcuser wrote:
Still arguing...


THeRe will always be an argument, about proof of GOD's existence in the
potential higher power AND POTENTIAL of humankind; AS THAT EXISTS.

And truly I present an excellent scientific explanation, as to why.

As why, as described as the higher potential of GOD of Nature

SIMPLY DOES NOT EXIST AS IS, MANiFEST

IN THE UNIVERSES OF

SOME HUMAN EXPERIENCES;

WHEREAS, THE HIGHER POTENTIAL

OF THE ALL NATURAL

GOD OF NATURE

IS SIMPLY REALLY ALL REAL
AND INCREDIBLE IN THE SO-CALLED
'CHOSEN ONES' OF NATURE THAT ALL
NATURAL GOD DOES MANIFEST
in human beings in these higher
potential ways of what
can be NAMED AS THE
HEAVEN OF NOW,
ON THIS TERRESTRIAL
FEELING EARTH, FOR
THOSE WHO EXPERIENCE THE art of feeling
the higher power of GOD that will never ever
be fully explained by the 'bones of scribing science'.

SO THE IMPASSE IS BOTH GOD AND HUMAN NATURE
MANIFEST AS ALL NATURAL GOD AS SUCH.

GOD DOES NOT HAVE TO EITHER BE FAIR OR MANiFEST
AS SUCH IN HUMAN NATURE. THE ILLUSION IS THAT ANY
OF THIS HAS TO MAKE 'SENSE', in science scribing ways
of making sense out of an incredibly 'Quantum GOD' of
NATURE; YES, 'huMANiFEST' in the reflection of 'THAT
QUANTUM MIND' in the 'human quantum mind UN-
leashed
and
released
'JUST' like
THIS, BABY,
AS IS, FOR NOW..;)


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

22 Apr 2015, 3:47 am

Oldavid wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Moses seems to not exist, there is no proof of his remains either so there is another flaw in the Bible!
Did your Mum heap praise on you every time you said something really stupid?
I sense some frustration and butthurt abroad provide me evidence of Mosis existing and his remains they were never found, this grinds your gears greatly and makes you mad and frustrated! It seems Mosis did not exist and there is no record of him dying and where he died either and his remains weren't found at all! Oh my such an Iconic figure but no evidence of his remains it is almost as if *gasp* it was all made up and never really happened! You are frustrated and desperate hence why you are resorting to personal attacks but that does not work on me it simply lets me know you are losing the argument and bringing me more laughs! I mean hell God did not create the internet man did and if he was real he should know how the internet works I mean If he wanted to make an effort he would make an account and reply right now and say hey I am god I exist bla bla bla but that is not going to happen maybe some random troll posing as god for jokes but that is it! I hereby away for Jehova aka Yaweih aka Allah aka God to make a post right......NOW!.....not seeing it and not going to happen, he does not exist!I give you some kudos for your effort *golf clap* You might as well try to make an effort to prove that the Easter Bunny exists at this rate!


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

22 Apr 2015, 10:36 am

izzeme wrote:
The whole universe is indeed a closed energy system (well, the jury is out on that one, but those theories are far-fetched as well, let's ignore those for now).
This does not, however, mean that energy cannot be locally accumulated. If the sun emits 10 "units" of energy in the direction of earth, and earth absorbs 9 of those, the total energy in the system decreased (by 1), yet the energy on earth increased, allowing the entropy to decrease a bit.



Izzeme, he has been shown the maths ad nauseam, he has even been shown how entropy rather than denying complexity is vital for it ie the conversion of high low entropy energy emr into lower energy higher entropy infra red and the transfer of energy to life and complexity on this planet in the process. It really is waste of time arguing with him but if you are having fun ..........


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


Oldavid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 704
Location: Western Australia

22 Apr 2015, 4:30 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
Oldavid wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Moses seems to not exist, there is no proof of his remains either so there is another flaw in the Bible!
Did your Mum heap praise on you every time you said something really stupid?
I sense some frustration and butthurt abroad provide me evidence of Mosis existing and his remains they were never found, this grinds your gears greatly and makes you mad and frustrated! It seems Mosis did not exist and there is no record of him dying and where he died either and his remains weren't found at all! Oh my such an Iconic figure but no evidence of his remains it is almost as if *gasp* it was all made up and never really happened! You are frustrated and desperate hence why you are resorting to personal attacks but that does not work on me it simply lets me know you are losing the argument and bringing me more laughs! I mean hell God did not create the internet man did and if he was real he should know how the internet works I mean If he wanted to make an effort he would make an account and reply right now and say hey I am god I exist bla bla bla but that is not going to happen maybe some random troll posing as god for jokes but that is it! I hereby away for Jehova aka Yaweih aka Allah aka God to make a post right......NOW!.....not seeing it and not going to happen, he does not exist!I give you some kudos for your effort *golf clap* You might as well try to make an effort to prove that the Easter Bunny exists at this rate!
I look forward to you showing us the remains of Genghis Khan then?



Oldavid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 704
Location: Western Australia

22 Apr 2015, 4:38 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
izzeme wrote:
The whole universe is indeed a closed energy system (well, the jury is out on that one, but those theories are far-fetched as well, let's ignore those for now).
This does not, however, mean that energy cannot be locally accumulated. If the sun emits 10 "units" of energy in the direction of earth, and earth absorbs 9 of those, the total energy in the system decreased (by 1), yet the energy on earth increased, allowing the entropy to decrease a bit.



Izzeme, he has been shown the maths ad nauseam, he has even been shown how entropy rather than denying complexity is vital for it ie the conversion of high low entropy energy emr into lower energy higher entropy infra red and the transfer of energy to life and complexity on this planet in the process. It really is waste of time arguing with him but if you are having fun ..........
Purely fantastic speculations do not count as "evidence". Particularly where the contrary is always and easily demonstrable.



Kate.com
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 16 Apr 2015
Posts: 137
Location: Vermont

22 Apr 2015, 4:49 pm

On Moses: biblical scholarship these days understands that Genesis is a series of creation stories and stories describing the establishment of the Hebrews as apart from other nations by way of their faith in one God, Yahweh. They've been collected over hundreds of years. On Moses directly, I believe that he did exist. The pharaoh most cited as Pharaoh of the bible is Rameses II. We have his remains under plexiglass. We can reasonably guess that there were other peeps in his day. Among them, and as documented in Egyptian sources, were Hebrews. And Hebrew itself is an Egyptian word, not a Jewish word. It was a derogatory term back in the day but Hebrews let it stick. Why? Because it looks pretty silly on kings when the mocked peeps walk free.

In proving God, the much more difficult task is in proving He doe not exist.

First, the order of the most simple things about us tells us there is intelligent design. We see flowers and the tides, and those point to the sun and the moon in their development.

From this we see the motions of the heavens. Quite a task without the laws of physics and their designer.

But coming back to humanity, the question that often comes up is why? Is this it?

This calls on a God with a name, a personal God. Each person is free to choose. I won't speak more in terms of theology other than saying it's quite amazing that the God of all things has a name, shares it, and has a delight in His creation--one which pre-exists to this creation. One where creation was made so as to share with a humanity created in His image. It's all made/anything is made to share with us.

Pretty sweet as opposed to nothing, no sharing no personal/loving God

:D



Oldavid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 704
Location: Western Australia

22 Apr 2015, 4:56 pm

izzeme wrote:
[If you bring up something unseen which can be seen by what it does, sure. explain what i missed, and how the things we see prove their existence, without some other effect doing the same (see dark energy; science allows such ideas)
An electron.

Your superstition, pretentiously claimed to be "science", "allows such ideas".

A "singularity", by definition, is a (very large) mass in no space. Evidence please.

Make a "closed system" containing anything you like and feed in any kind of radiation you like and it will never form even a Leggo model.



Oldavid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2010
Age: 71
Gender: Male
Posts: 704
Location: Western Australia

22 Apr 2015, 5:05 pm

Kate.com wrote:
On Moses: biblical scholarship these days understands that Genesis is a series of creation stories and stories describing the establishment of the Hebrews as apart from other nations by way of their faith in one God, Yahweh. They've been collected over hundreds of years. On Moses directly, I believe that he did exist. The pharaoh most cited as Pharaoh of the bible is Rameses II. We have his remains under plexiglass. We can reasonably guess that there were other peeps in his day. Among them, and as documented in Egyptian sources, were Hebrews. And Hebrew itself is an Egyptian word, not a Jewish word. It was a derogatory term back in the day but Hebrews let it stick. Why? Because it looks pretty silly on kings when the mocked peeps walk free.

In proving God, the much more difficult task is in proving He doe not exist.

First, the order of the most simple things about us tells us there is intelligent design. We see flowers and the tides, and those point to the sun and the moon in their development.

From this we see the motions of the heavens. Quite a task without the laws of physics and their designer.

But coming back to humanity, the question that often comes up is why? Is this it?

This calls on a God with a name, a personal God. Each person is free to choose. I won't speak more in terms of theology other than saying it's quite amazing that the God of all things has a name, shares it, and has a delight in His creation--one which pre-exists to this creation. One where creation was made so as to share with a humanity created in His image. It's all made/anything is made to share with us.

Pretty sweet as opposed to nothing, no sharing no personal/loving God

:D
Good on you, Kate, for having a go.

However, we are arguing with a fantastic superstition that claims to be "science" where anything goes as long as it's perversely God-hating.