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sly279
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18 Feb 2015, 6:57 pm

its a part of life. would one rather see millions or billions of people starve?

i love animals, but there is a difference between farm animals and pets. I would love to see some treated better but one also has to be realistic. given each chicken 25 feet by 25 feet space when also trying to feed billions of people doesn't' seem realistic. space is limited and getting more so with more populations. heck I don't even have 25 by 25 feet room and many humans have less space than me.

as for humans being mean one can learn about the holocaust to see that. I can't be cruel to animals. I would kill them if I couldn't get meat from the store though. I prefer them to go fast and peacefully with no torment. I know others who don't think that way though.



ominous
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18 Feb 2015, 7:01 pm

sly279 wrote:
its a part of life. would one rather see millions or billions of people starve?


That's not a sound correlation.

http://www.earthoria.com/global-hunger- ... -feed.html



sly279
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18 Feb 2015, 7:07 pm

but then people b***h about the genetic plants and how they bad, we need to do organic only blah blah, way it is we either need to do genetic plants and more cattle/clone meat or start killing off more people. vegetarian diet isn't as healthy as other diets. and while north korea might survive on mostly rice that doesn't mean it's healthy.

if one can not eat meat and live then do it, but others can't there isn't a one size fits all thing. I hardly eat any veggies, if I was mad to not eat any meat or products from animals I'd starve to death. vegan is a rich person thing. funny that the vegan restaurants can't survive alone on vegan stuff so they also serve meat here.

we can't go back to how it was in medieval times where everyone had their own garden and farm. population is too high now.



androbot01
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18 Feb 2015, 7:12 pm

sly279 wrote:
we can't go back to how it was in medieval times where everyone had their own garden and farm. population is too high now.


Urban gardening is a trend these days. Kingston has a bunch of community garden sites. Not that this would be enough to survive, but it's a good way to stalk up in the summer. My mother had one last year. She planted too much kale though.



ominous
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18 Feb 2015, 7:12 pm

Folks don't need to justify why they eat what they eat, but to say people will starve or that's just the way that it is, etc., is avoiding the subject altogether to justify why they still eat meat. If folks want to eat meat, or anything really, I think it's important to know the actual facts. Eating meat is, in part, destroying the planet. It's also cruel and inhumane as we practice it currently. If individuals are ok with that because they love bacon, that's honestly up to them. I'm not posting facts to try and persuade individuals to become vegetarian or vegan, but meat eaters really do seem to spend a lot of time justifying their habits with ideas that aren't based in fact at all.



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18 Feb 2015, 7:14 pm

As a vegetarian myself, I may be a hypocrite but personally, eating meat isn't wrong.
I'm not a religious person but even god provided fish for human consumption.

I don't eat meat because I can live without it, so it's not compulsory.
Although it is part of the food chain, a lot of people do.

Each to their own.



sly279
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18 Feb 2015, 7:54 pm

we wouldn't' have to try to justify why we do stuff if people weren't trying to persuade us to not do it. some people would starve perhaps not all people but people would. probably mostly the poor people as the richer/middle class would can affor other food sources.

how the f**k is eating animals destroying the environment??? does eating cows somehow kill trees? should we let cows have free range and overpopulate? one animal overpopulate then affects another animal. if cougars get too high they start to decimate deer population. if we didn't eat meat then humans would likely just start mass killing animals like they did the buffalo or the do do, or the tasmanian tiger. most humans will only keep stuff they have a use for around(the right) cows wouldn't even be in the us if they had' had a use since they came from europe.

the people in alaska had a cow that gave milk for years and years then go too old so they killed it for food is this wrong?
should they have starved and let the cow go free to be killed by a bear? much more human right

don't eat meat I don't care, do I don't care, just don't judge me. this is why I won't ever date a vegan or vegetarian just too different to date or be friends.



ominous
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18 Feb 2015, 7:56 pm

sly279 wrote:
how the f**k is eating animals destroying the environment???


Did you bother to read the links I posted? Because I took time to look them up and provide them for references to back up what I was saying. The aggressive tone is uncalled for. There are plenty of resources online to learn about 'how the f**k eating animals is destroying the environment'.



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18 Feb 2015, 7:58 pm

All my vegetarian promotion aside, my son eats meat still. I believe it's a personal choice and people have to come to it on their own if they do come to it. I don't cook meat in our house outside of some fish and occasionally chicken nuggets, etc., but my son is still choosing to eat meat. We try to choose better options like free range, etc., and I believe he will eventually become full vegetarian. I think he's too young to be subjected to watching Earthlings, though I know if he did watch it he would soon be right off meat. I believe our food is a personal choice and we need to make it in our own ways and can't 'convert' vegetarians into being meat-eaters or vice-verse.



sly279
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18 Feb 2015, 8:06 pm

androbot01 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
we can't go back to how it was in medieval times where everyone had their own garden and farm. population is too high now.


Urban gardening is a trend these days. Kingston has a bunch of community garden sites. Not that this would be enough to survive, but it's a good way to stalk up in the summer. My mother had one last year. She planted too much kale though.


the gov in many areas ban it and will destroy gardens. even rain water here is not fair use and owned by the government.

besides I've had terrible luck with gardens, I don't eat anything from them it was more of a interest and fun thing with my mom, only thing that grew was some corn we didn't plant. and pumpkins once that then grew all over the yard :o



sly279
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18 Feb 2015, 8:12 pm

guess I'll just have to be a horrible as*hole human that eats meat.

the one link was a video trailer showed video of abuse to dogs ( people don't eat wolves, cougars, etc) so don't see how that goes with meat eating despite how horrible that is. theres bad meat places and good meat places. I've watched dirty jobs, and other documentaries not all places are bad lots trie to find a middle ground between proper treatment and mass production of meat. some the meat is murder people want animals to have more space than many humans thats just not possible. unfortunately I can't afford to know where my meat comes from the hamburger at all my local stores are all from similar sources and from cows from all over the world. if you can afford to eat non meat and animal products and have the ability to all the good for you. just don't judge those who can't :(

I don't really care what people do or what people eat, just most non meat eaters are judgmental and pushy about it. couldn't be with someone that is slowly building up hate to me cause I eat meat. so could probably only be with one who doesn't eat meat for medical reasons rather then ideology



androbot01
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18 Feb 2015, 8:18 pm

sly279 wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
we can't go back to how it was in medieval times where everyone had their own garden and farm. population is too high now.


Urban gardening is a trend these days. Kingston has a bunch of community garden sites. Not that this would be enough to survive, but it's a good way to stalk up in the summer. My mother had one last year. She planted too much kale though.


the gov in many areas ban it and will destroy gardens. even rain water here is not fair use and owned by the government.

That sucks.

Quote:
besides I've had terrible luck with gardens, I don't eat anything from them it was more of a interest and fun thing with my mom, only thing that grew was some corn we didn't plant. and pumpkins once that then grew all over the yard :o

Mom planted pumpkins last year. They got too much moisture though :(
She did get lots of tomatoes, beans and lettuce.

But with animals I think the immorality arises out of their suffering not their consumption.

I still think genetically produced meat is the future.

link

Quote:
The meat was produced using stem cells — basic cells that can turn into tissue-specific cells — from cow shoulder muscle from a slaughterhouse. The cells were multiplied in a nutrient solution and put into small petri dishes, where they became muscle cells and formed tiny strips of muscle fiber. About 20,000 strips were used to make the five-ounce burger, which contained breadcrumbs, salt, and some natural colorings as well.


Quote:
Recent studies have shown that producing cultured meat in factories could greatly reduce water, land and energy use, and emissions of methane and other greenhouse gases, compared with conventional meat production using livestock. Depending on how the stem cells were obtained, no animals might need to be killed to make the meat.



sly279
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18 Feb 2015, 8:35 pm

androbot01 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
we can't go back to how it was in medieval times where everyone had their own garden and farm. population is too high now.


Urban gardening is a trend these days. Kingston has a bunch of community garden sites. Not that this would be enough to survive, but it's a good way to stalk up in the summer. My mother had one last year. She planted too much kale though.


the gov in many areas ban it and will destroy gardens. even rain water here is not fair use and owned by the government.

That sucks.

Quote:
besides I've had terrible luck with gardens, I don't eat anything from them it was more of a interest and fun thing with my mom, only thing that grew was some corn we didn't plant. and pumpkins once that then grew all over the yard :o

Mom planted pumpkins last year. They got too much moisture though :(
She did get lots of tomatoes, beans and lettuce.

But with animals I think the immorality arises out of their suffering not their consumption.

I still think genetically produced meat is the future.

link

Quote:
The meat was produced using stem cells — basic cells that can turn into tissue-specific cells — from cow shoulder muscle from a slaughterhouse. The cells were multiplied in a nutrient solution and put into small petri dishes, where they became muscle cells and formed tiny strips of muscle fiber. About 20,000 strips were used to make the five-ounce burger, which contained breadcrumbs, salt, and some natural colorings as well.


Quote:
Recent studies have shown that producing cultured meat in factories could greatly reduce water, land and energy use, and emissions of methane and other greenhouse gases, compared with conventional meat production using livestock. Depending on how the stem cells were obtained, no animals might need to be killed to make the meat.



yeah it does was a story about little girl who did a garden near her apartments, and gov came and destroyed it. her family is on food stamps but its never enough, so she started the garden to help.

tomatoes always seem to grow nearly killed my cactus at the last place. they smell awful though >.<

I'd read about cloned bacon that they said was safe but none of the scientist would eat it. when its safe to eat and those making it will eat then I'll try it.
tofo is good too. I started by accidentally picking up tofu chicken nuggets and they tasted like chicken nuggets. but then I heard about the negative effects tofo can have on men. though only place i've seen tofo is at that one place and I don't go there anymore.



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18 Feb 2015, 8:46 pm

sly279 wrote:
the one link was a video trailer showed video of abuse to dogs ( people don't eat wolves, cougars, etc) so don't see how that goes with meat eating despite how horrible that is.
It's about animal rights to humane treatment in first world countries.

if you can afford to eat non meat and animal products and have the ability to all the good for you. just don't judge those who can't :( There is a saying I grew up with, it probably dates back to the Great famine 'If there is meat to be had, eat it'.



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18 Feb 2015, 9:33 pm

Pizzagal3000 wrote:
The answer to this question for me is, yes. But what do you guys think?


Absolutely not.

From my point of view, giving up meat over some hyper-emotional pseudo-ethical reason is absurd.

By the way, if it weren't for raising animals for food, there would be little or no reason to even keep those animals around in other than very small numbers.



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19 Feb 2015, 2:41 am

Sherry221B wrote:
I totally agree with you. Besides, it seems that too many humans forget that, our species also belong to the animal kingdom; humans are also animals. So, this by itself answer the question. It is also morally wrong to inflict pain to someone else who has done nothing bad to yourself. Because of non-humans not communicating the way we do, in a way, it is like if they did not have a "voice". So, they are much more vulnerable, they cannot truly defend themselves. Their abuse goes unheard, and not everybody is willing to do something about it.

For a very long time they have been treated as inferior, just because they are not humans. Non-humans deserve to have their own lives too, they came into these world too. Humans behave as if they were the rulers of this world, and drive many species to extinction because of their own greed....There are many more things which could be commented regarding these kind of things. The point is, just because they are not humans does not make them inferior nor less of a being.

I personally sympathize with their pain, as I know how bad it is like. The non-humans I have interacted with through my existence, have treated me much better than the fellow humans....Not just that, they also understood me and accepted me the way I am.

I want to add too, that I read once something like you can get an idea of someone´s character depending of their treatment with animals (non-humans). I liked that. If someone is willing to treat you with a minimum of respect, and take their time to understand you, that would be a great individual, indeed. To me, they are and always be my friends even if I do not get to see them.


Awesome! I wish there was a way to "like" comments! This was the best one for me.

I don't know why there were about two different members I noticed that attempted to make me feel guilty by using The Word of God against my belief not to ever ingest another living creature. But they should know that as I have stated, "I want to know what you guys THINK." DO NOT tell me what I CAN and CANNOT do. I mean, one guy was like, "DO NOT DEFY THE WORD OF GOD." I'm like thinkin, " What the hell....Or else what?"

The Holy Bible was surely tampered with. I won't get into who tampered with it and where it REALLY came from, because it might get this thread deleted or me banned, so I will stop right there.

But I have a right to feel how I feel and say what I think just like you guys. SO DON'T YOU EVER TELL ME WHAT TO DO! PLEASE! :D


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I dress anyway want I to, do anything I want to, be anything I want to, cause I got the right to! I is talkin to you(ppl who "oppress" us), boo!----PizzA TimE!! !