Is it racism to be against immigration?
19 Feb 2015, 9:10 am
white_as_snow wrote:
The left and liberals in Sweden are saying that it is.
Right wing in Sweden is against immigration becuse they say we have already have MANY immigrants comming. In fact, Sweden has taking most refugus per capita in Europe.
They dont adept and Sweden have put much money on immigration which have give negative effects on hospital, jobs, bulding houses etc. The goverment in Sweden prefers the immigrants before helping their own people and country. And they want to make the immigration even bigger, much bigger.
Is it racism to be against this? Is the liberals and the lefts in Sweden doing the right thing?
Important note: almost everyone who is comming to Sweden is arab muslims from middle east.......and they are very religious at the same time is Sweden very secular....its like 2 diffrents world facing eachother, I dont understand why the left and liberals want this....they have goon so far thaat they are saying that giving crititc to Islam is racism. But its okay to give critic to any other religion.
Right wing in Sweden is against immigration becuse they say we have already have MANY immigrants comming. In fact, Sweden has taking most refugus per capita in Europe.
They dont adept and Sweden have put much money on immigration which have give negative effects on hospital, jobs, bulding houses etc. The goverment in Sweden prefers the immigrants before helping their own people and country. And they want to make the immigration even bigger, much bigger.
Is it racism to be against this? Is the liberals and the lefts in Sweden doing the right thing?
Important note: almost everyone who is comming to Sweden is arab muslims from middle east.......and they are very religious at the same time is Sweden very secular....its like 2 diffrents world facing eachother, I dont understand why the left and liberals want this....they have goon so far thaat they are saying that giving crititc to Islam is racism. But its okay to give critic to any other religion.
Our partners in the EFDD, the Sweden Democrats, appear to be doing sterling work. If I was Swedish, I would be putting a vote their way. The rest of your parties look absolutely and utterly hopeless. Only the SD is speaking out.
19 Feb 2015, 11:39 am
I don't think it's necessarily racist, though I can see why a lot of people are wary of the anti-immigration thing, and it does often seem to be part of the general right-wing ideology.
Personally, I think sudden mass migrations have their problems, and I think a lot of it is down to big business who pretty much import people to drive pay and conditions down. I object to that process, but I think it would be silly to object to the individual migrant. Trouble is, many people don't make that distinction, and I suspect that the politically-correct gagging of genuine concerns that went on for a decade or two has added to racial tension. When our gov "tightens up the rules," it seems to hit the wrong people, and the overall immigration figures aren't affected.
20 Feb 2015, 12:42 am
@ OP
No, but you're often in the political company of racists. It really comes down to a fear, legitimate or otherwise, that the "other" will not be successfully integrated into the "native" whole at the current or projected future rate of arrival. For racists, that fear has at its foundation skin tone or appearance, the quickest measure of whether someone is from your area. These are often so consumed by xenophobia that they can't comprehend other metrics for the suitability of an immigrant, much less anything else, and their approval should rightly fill anyone with shame.
But no, there's nothing wrong in theory with being concerned about immigration rates. The German tribesmen being pushed over the Limes by the Hun and the mini-Ice Age were certainly of immediate and real concern to the Roman citizens living in Gaul, Spain, Italy, Northern Africa...
thomas81
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Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland
22 Feb 2015, 10:36 am
"Is it racism to be against immigration?"
Depends on the country you are talking about and the motives of those asking the question.
I can only speak about this country but lets be clear; these people who complain about this matter aren't bothered about migrants from 'white countries' then these same individuals that consistently bemoan immigration and its 'diluting effect' on our culture are solely and exclusively concerned with immigration from non-white countries. For me, that inconsistency is where the racist component lies.
Nor do they see the irony of thousands of our own people flooding and settling the south coast of Spain, turning it into a 'England out of England'.
The biggest cultural affront to the UK is the United States! You can barely walk more than few streets without seeing a McDonalds or Starbucks. Never see protests organising on the streets calling for "no more Mcdonalds" though.
thomas81
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Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland
22 Feb 2015, 11:44 am
Tequila wrote:
Our partners in the EFDD, the Sweden Democrats, appear to be doing sterling work. If I was Swedish, I would be putting a vote their way. The rest of your parties look absolutely and utterly hopeless. Only the SD is speaking out.
And this friends, is why you never let a Kipper posture to you about anti semitism.
From Wikipedia article on the SD
Quote:
Early years (1988–1995)
The Sweden Democrats continued to use the Keep Sweden Swedish as a slogan.
The Sweden Democrats was founded in 1988 as a successor to the Sweden Party, which in turn had been formed in 1986 by the merger of Bevara Sverige Svenskt (BSS, English: Keep Sweden Swedish) and a faction of the Swedish Progress Party.[39] SD claims as its official date of foundation 6 February 1988 although observers rather see the party's foundation as part of a complex decade-long series of events, and some have even questioned that a meeting took place on 6 February.[40] The party had its roots in Swedish fascism,[39] and was a part of the white supremacy movement;[14] initially it was characterized by right-wing extremism and activism. SD's long used logo from the 1990s until 2006 was a Swedish version of the UK National Front torch.[39]
The Sweden Democrats continued to use the Keep Sweden Swedish as a slogan.
The Sweden Democrats was founded in 1988 as a successor to the Sweden Party, which in turn had been formed in 1986 by the merger of Bevara Sverige Svenskt (BSS, English: Keep Sweden Swedish) and a faction of the Swedish Progress Party.[39] SD claims as its official date of foundation 6 February 1988 although observers rather see the party's foundation as part of a complex decade-long series of events, and some have even questioned that a meeting took place on 6 February.[40] The party had its roots in Swedish fascism,[39] and was a part of the white supremacy movement;[14] initially it was characterized by right-wing extremism and activism. SD's long used logo from the 1990s until 2006 was a Swedish version of the UK National Front torch.[39]
"Our partners". You heard it here.
The leopard doesn't easilly change its spots.
22 Feb 2015, 12:01 pm
I don't think it is racism to be against immigration. I read a lot and here are some angers directed towards immigrants (see below).
-Indian H1B tech people replace American workers
-and a few Indian tech companies have admitted they only hire Indians. They say it just makes it easier to have a cohesive workforce.
- several "traditionally" black cities have been "taken over" by Hispanics (angering some black residents)
- DC and Harlem are experiencing "gentrification" where whites are increasing and blacks are decreasing(angering some black residents)
-the governor of Michigan, and recently presidential candidate Jeb Bush suggested that the solution for Detroit is to bring in immigrants (ones with a masters degree or better from around the world) this is called "Operation De-Africanization" by some black people (i.e., make Detroit less black)
- non-English speaking immigrant children cost extra money, and consume more teacher resources, thus, a contributing factor to "white flight" as people want good schools for their children and see the extra expenses are detracting from a higher quality eduction
- the influx of Hispanics have permitted businesses to not hire whites, and blacks who formally did those likely low paying jobs
- some jobs are advertised , "must know Spanish" which angers some English only speakers
01 Jun 2015, 7:29 am
Raptor wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
The left and liberals in Sweden are saying that it is.
Right wing in Sweden is against immigration becuse they say we have already have MANY immigrants comming. In fact, Sweden has taking most refugus per capita in Europe.
They dont adept and Sweden have put much money on immigration which have give negative effects on hospital, jobs, bulding houses etc. The goverment in Sweden prefers the immigrants before helping their own people and country. And they want to make the immigration even bigger, much bigger.
Is it racism to be against this? Is the liberals and the lefts in Sweden doing the right thing?
Important note: almost everyone who is comming to Sweden is arab muslims from middle east.......and they are very religious at the same time is Sweden very secular....its like 2 diffrents world facing eachother, I dont understand why the left and liberals want this....they have goon so far thaat they are saying that giving crititc to Islam is racism. But its okay to give critic to any other religion.
Right wing in Sweden is against immigration becuse they say we have already have MANY immigrants comming. In fact, Sweden has taking most refugus per capita in Europe.
They dont adept and Sweden have put much money on immigration which have give negative effects on hospital, jobs, bulding houses etc. The goverment in Sweden prefers the immigrants before helping their own people and country. And they want to make the immigration even bigger, much bigger.
Is it racism to be against this? Is the liberals and the lefts in Sweden doing the right thing?
Important note: almost everyone who is comming to Sweden is arab muslims from middle east.......and they are very religious at the same time is Sweden very secular....its like 2 diffrents world facing eachother, I dont understand why the left and liberals want this....they have goon so far thaat they are saying that giving crititc to Islam is racism. But its okay to give critic to any other religion.
Liberals love to throw the charge of racism at people that don't agree with them. It's their substitute for facts and rationale but it doesn't work with me. In all fairness, as someone whose ancestors were European immigrants I can't be against LEGAL immigration but I am and will continue to be against ILLEGAL immigration.
I keep hearing "liberals" from amercians, do you guys even know that there is something even worse that exists witch is called "left-wngs, communists, socialists"? There is no left-wingers in USA?
Last edited by white_as_snow on 01 Jun 2015, 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
01 Jun 2015, 7:31 am
The_Walrus wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
Right wing in Sweden is against immigration becuse they say we have already have MANY immigrants comming. In fact, Sweden has taking most refugus per capita in Europe.
They dont adept and Sweden have put much money on immigration which have give negative effects on hospital, jobs, bulding houses etc. The goverment in Sweden prefers the immigrants before helping their own people and country. And they want to make the immigration even bigger, much bigger.
Is it racism to be against this? Is the liberals and the lefts in Sweden doing the right thing?
Important note: almost everyone who is comming to Sweden is arab muslims from middle east.......and they are very religious at the same time is Sweden very secular....its like 2 diffrents world facing eachother, I dont understand why the left and liberals want this....they have goon so far thaat they are saying that giving crititc to Islam is racism. But its okay to give critic to any other religion.
They dont adept and Sweden have put much money on immigration which have give negative effects on hospital, jobs, bulding houses etc. The goverment in Sweden prefers the immigrants before helping their own people and country. And they want to make the immigration even bigger, much bigger.
Is it racism to be against this? Is the liberals and the lefts in Sweden doing the right thing?
Important note: almost everyone who is comming to Sweden is arab muslims from middle east.......and they are very religious at the same time is Sweden very secular....its like 2 diffrents world facing eachother, I dont understand why the left and liberals want this....they have goon so far thaat they are saying that giving crititc to Islam is racism. But its okay to give critic to any other religion.
There is a difference between "refugees" and "immigrants". Sweden is nowhere near home to the most immigrants per capita in Europe. It's still overwhelmingly dominated by ethnic Swedes (and, incidentally, the biggest immigrant groups are Finns and former Yugoslavians like Ibrahimovic). Ethnic Celts are functionally extinct. And regardless, you're nowhere near Jordan, where 25% of the population are refugees.
Wanting your government to stop taking refugees (less than 1% of the Swedish population) is not racist, it's just illiberal and selfish. In the red corner: people dying in Syria or camps in Jordan and Lebanon. In the blue corner: a few Swedish people feeling slightly uneasy for reasons they can't quite pin down.
Immigration is generally a good thing for Western countries. Immigrants provide a net economic benefit. In the UK at least, they are significantly less likely to commit a crime. Despite that, immigration is widely unpopular, because the perception doesn't match reality. I would suggest that the reason for this is that anti-immigrant stories are a more compelling narrative, and also that we're all a bit bunch of xenophobes and racists.
Slightly more nuanced view that Humanaut there - Humanaut says you are racist if you are against immigration because you don't want dark skinned people polluting your country; I say you are a different sort of racist if you give more credence to stories which confirm your anti-immigrant prejudices.
Of course, we all give more credence to stories that reinforce our pre-existing world views, so once you decide you're against immigration for perfectly sound reasons, you're dancing with the devil. Not to say you shouldn't be against immigration, you just have to be capable of exercising your critical thinking if you want to do so and not be racist - at least, more so than otherwise.
What are you talking about? My town is 50 % arab muslims.
01 Jun 2015, 8:34 am
It's sad to see the liberals scramble over each other to argue for taking in the lowest grade of immigrants possible. Its like they're competing over who can self flagellate the hardest.
Why do you believe that immigration under fascism would not be designed to serve fascist ends?
01 Jun 2015, 9:06 am
white_as_snow wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
Right wing in Sweden is against immigration becuse they say we have already have MANY immigrants comming. In fact, Sweden has taking most refugus per capita in Europe.
They dont adept and Sweden have put much money on immigration which have give negative effects on hospital, jobs, bulding houses etc. The goverment in Sweden prefers the immigrants before helping their own people and country. And they want to make the immigration even bigger, much bigger.
Is it racism to be against this? Is the liberals and the lefts in Sweden doing the right thing?
Important note: almost everyone who is comming to Sweden is arab muslims from middle east.......and they are very religious at the same time is Sweden very secular....its like 2 diffrents world facing eachother, I dont understand why the left and liberals want this....they have goon so far thaat they are saying that giving crititc to Islam is racism. But its okay to give critic to any other religion.
They dont adept and Sweden have put much money on immigration which have give negative effects on hospital, jobs, bulding houses etc. The goverment in Sweden prefers the immigrants before helping their own people and country. And they want to make the immigration even bigger, much bigger.
Is it racism to be against this? Is the liberals and the lefts in Sweden doing the right thing?
Important note: almost everyone who is comming to Sweden is arab muslims from middle east.......and they are very religious at the same time is Sweden very secular....its like 2 diffrents world facing eachother, I dont understand why the left and liberals want this....they have goon so far thaat they are saying that giving crititc to Islam is racism. But its okay to give critic to any other religion.
There is a difference between "refugees" and "immigrants". Sweden is nowhere near home to the most immigrants per capita in Europe. It's still overwhelmingly dominated by ethnic Swedes (and, incidentally, the biggest immigrant groups are Finns and former Yugoslavians like Ibrahimovic). Ethnic Celts are functionally extinct. And regardless, you're nowhere near Jordan, where 25% of the population are refugees.
Wanting your government to stop taking refugees (less than 1% of the Swedish population) is not racist, it's just illiberal and selfish. In the red corner: people dying in Syria or camps in Jordan and Lebanon. In the blue corner: a few Swedish people feeling slightly uneasy for reasons they can't quite pin down.
Immigration is generally a good thing for Western countries. Immigrants provide a net economic benefit. In the UK at least, they are significantly less likely to commit a crime. Despite that, immigration is widely unpopular, because the perception doesn't match reality. I would suggest that the reason for this is that anti-immigrant stories are a more compelling narrative, and also that we're all a bit bunch of xenophobes and racists.
Slightly more nuanced view that Humanaut there - Humanaut says you are racist if you are against immigration because you don't want dark skinned people polluting your country; I say you are a different sort of racist if you give more credence to stories which confirm your anti-immigrant prejudices.
Of course, we all give more credence to stories that reinforce our pre-existing world views, so once you decide you're against immigration for perfectly sound reasons, you're dancing with the devil. Not to say you shouldn't be against immigration, you just have to be capable of exercising your critical thinking if you want to do so and not be racist - at least, more so than otherwise.
What are you talking about? My town is 50 % arab muslims.
Which town?
I would suggest that your racism is causing you to perceive more Arabs than there really are.
Even if you're right, your town does not represent Sweden as a whole. There are 160,000 Arabs in Sweden, out of 9.7 million people.
Nebogipfel wrote:
It's sad to see the liberals scramble over each other to argue for taking in the lowest grade of immigrants possible. Its like they're competing over who can self flagellate the hardest.
Why do you believe that immigration under fascism would not be designed to serve fascist ends?
Why do you believe that immigration under fascism would not be designed to serve fascist ends?
All immigrants should be taken, it's just particularly important to take those who are in the most trouble.
I don't see the relevance of your point about fascism. No fascist states are relevant to this discussion.
01 Jun 2015, 3:26 pm
The_Walrus wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
Right wing in Sweden is against immigration becuse they say we have already have MANY immigrants comming. In fact, Sweden has taking most refugus per capita in Europe.
They dont adept and Sweden have put much money on immigration which have give negative effects on hospital, jobs, bulding houses etc. The goverment in Sweden prefers the immigrants before helping their own people and country. And they want to make the immigration even bigger, much bigger.
Is it racism to be against this? Is the liberals and the lefts in Sweden doing the right thing?
Important note: almost everyone who is comming to Sweden is arab muslims from middle east.......and they are very religious at the same time is Sweden very secular....its like 2 diffrents world facing eachother, I dont understand why the left and liberals want this....they have goon so far thaat they are saying that giving crititc to Islam is racism. But its okay to give critic to any other religion.
They dont adept and Sweden have put much money on immigration which have give negative effects on hospital, jobs, bulding houses etc. The goverment in Sweden prefers the immigrants before helping their own people and country. And they want to make the immigration even bigger, much bigger.
Is it racism to be against this? Is the liberals and the lefts in Sweden doing the right thing?
Important note: almost everyone who is comming to Sweden is arab muslims from middle east.......and they are very religious at the same time is Sweden very secular....its like 2 diffrents world facing eachother, I dont understand why the left and liberals want this....they have goon so far thaat they are saying that giving crititc to Islam is racism. But its okay to give critic to any other religion.
There is a difference between "refugees" and "immigrants". Sweden is nowhere near home to the most immigrants per capita in Europe. It's still overwhelmingly dominated by ethnic Swedes (and, incidentally, the biggest immigrant groups are Finns and former Yugoslavians like Ibrahimovic). Ethnic Celts are functionally extinct. And regardless, you're nowhere near Jordan, where 25% of the population are refugees.
Wanting your government to stop taking refugees (less than 1% of the Swedish population) is not racist, it's just illiberal and selfish. In the red corner: people dying in Syria or camps in Jordan and Lebanon. In the blue corner: a few Swedish people feeling slightly uneasy for reasons they can't quite pin down.
Immigration is generally a good thing for Western countries. Immigrants provide a net economic benefit. In the UK at least, they are significantly less likely to commit a crime. Despite that, immigration is widely unpopular, because the perception doesn't match reality. I would suggest that the reason for this is that anti-immigrant stories are a more compelling narrative, and also that we're all a bit bunch of xenophobes and racists.
Slightly more nuanced view that Humanaut there - Humanaut says you are racist if you are against immigration because you don't want dark skinned people polluting your country; I say you are a different sort of racist if you give more credence to stories which confirm your anti-immigrant prejudices.
Of course, we all give more credence to stories that reinforce our pre-existing world views, so once you decide you're against immigration for perfectly sound reasons, you're dancing with the devil. Not to say you shouldn't be against immigration, you just have to be capable of exercising your critical thinking if you want to do so and not be racist - at least, more so than otherwise.
What are you talking about? My town is 50 % arab muslims.
Which town?
I would suggest that your racism is causing you to perceive more Arabs than there really are.
Even if you're right, your town does not represent Sweden as a whole. There are 160,000 Arabs in Sweden, out of 9.7 million people.
Nebogipfel wrote:
It's sad to see the liberals scramble over each other to argue for taking in the lowest grade of immigrants possible. Its like they're competing over who can self flagellate the hardest.
Why do you believe that immigration under fascism would not be designed to serve fascist ends?
Why do you believe that immigration under fascism would not be designed to serve fascist ends?
All immigrants should be taken, it's just particularly important to take those who are in the most trouble.
I don't see the relevance of your point about fascism. No fascist states are relevant to this discussion.
Malmö.
Im not an racist at all.
There is 500 000 muslims in Sweden, almost everyone is from Arabia and more is comming every year + born many babies.
01 Jun 2015, 4:44 pm
white_as_snow wrote:
...Im not an racist at all....
I don't believe that you are racist.
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01 Jun 2015, 6:04 pm
white_as_snow wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
What are you talking about? My town is 50 % arab muslims.
Which town?
I would suggest that your racism is causing you to perceive more Arabs than there really are.
Even if you're right, your town does not represent Sweden as a whole. There are 160,000 Arabs in Sweden, out of 9.7 million people.
Nebogipfel wrote:
It's sad to see the liberals scramble over each other to argue for taking in the lowest grade of immigrants possible. Its like they're competing over who can self flagellate the hardest.
Why do you believe that immigration under fascism would not be designed to serve fascist ends?
Why do you believe that immigration under fascism would not be designed to serve fascist ends?
All immigrants should be taken, it's just particularly important to take those who are in the most trouble.
I don't see the relevance of your point about fascism. No fascist states are relevant to this discussion.
Malmö.
Im not an racist at all.
There is 500 000 muslims in Sweden, almost everyone is from Arabia and more is comming every year + born many babies.
Malmo has a population of 300,000. 14% of those are foreign nationals - 43,000. 30,000 of those are from Denamrk, Poland, Serbia, Bosnia, Hungary, or Romania. That leaves 13,000 potential "Arab Muslims" - and that's using a reasonably broad definition of "Arab". Being generous with the rounding, that's 5%. In other words, you overestimated the proportion of Arab Muslims in your city by at least 10 times.
500,000 Muslims is only 5% of the population - and estimates are that half of Swedish "Muslims" are non-practising.
So... why do you care?
03 Jun 2015, 12:08 pm
The_Walrus wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
white_as_snow wrote:
What are you talking about? My town is 50 % arab muslims.
Which town?
I would suggest that your racism is causing you to perceive more Arabs than there really are.
Even if you're right, your town does not represent Sweden as a whole. There are 160,000 Arabs in Sweden, out of 9.7 million people.
Nebogipfel wrote:
It's sad to see the liberals scramble over each other to argue for taking in the lowest grade of immigrants possible. Its like they're competing over who can self flagellate the hardest.
Why do you believe that immigration under fascism would not be designed to serve fascist ends?
Why do you believe that immigration under fascism would not be designed to serve fascist ends?
All immigrants should be taken, it's just particularly important to take those who are in the most trouble.
I don't see the relevance of your point about fascism. No fascist states are relevant to this discussion.
Malmö.
Im not an racist at all.
There is 500 000 muslims in Sweden, almost everyone is from Arabia and more is comming every year + born many babies.
Malmo has a population of 300,000. 14% of those are foreign nationals - 43,000. 30,000 of those are from Denamrk, Poland, Serbia, Bosnia, Hungary, or Romania. That leaves 13,000 potential "Arab Muslims" - and that's using a reasonably broad definition of "Arab". Being generous with the rounding, that's 5%. In other words, you overestimated the proportion of Arab Muslims in your city by at least 10 times.
500,000 Muslims is only 5% of the population - and estimates are that half of Swedish "Muslims" are non-practising.
So... why do you care?
Thats old statistics.
03 Jun 2015, 12:10 pm
Ideally we should be allowed to go anywhere in the world without restriction. This is what's referred to as liberty. Not only should people be allowed to come here, we should be allowed to go there and everyone constantly moves and drifts from place to place.
This concept is enlightenment.
