Page 1 of 1 [ 16 posts ] 

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

23 Feb 2015, 4:53 am

We in the West have been conditioned to believe "God" is this little but quite gigantic old man hovering over us smashing rocks and forming things with his hands, our ancestors, for instance, but was that every really what God was intended to be. It is in our own minds, not one actual religious text describes God like this, to my knowledge.

Gnostics describe God as a bright light:

Quote:
They believed God to be bright Light, like the Light of many suns. In the east this is called Theosis, becoming God by contemplating his Light. This is something we human beings can do right now.


http://medium.com/sant-mat-meditation-a ... c3199d64bf


Now this website is somewhat new-agey and metaphysical but I like the way it talks about the light motif in Gnosticism and what it could mean to Gnostics.

Look at people who have died, been revived, and can tell what happened. They describe seeing this bright light and feeling peace. Could a lot of this be based on people who have had near death experiences since we are believed to be closest to God when we are in the process of dying and deceased? Did reports of NDEs in antiquity inspire the idea of God as light in Gnosticism?



Narrator
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

23 Feb 2015, 5:13 am

It's a self confirmation thing. People have experienced a range of things with NDE's, but because the bright light matches with religious ideas, people remember it more. It's a bit like when you buy a car. Before buying it, you didn't notice that model on the road much, but now you've invested in one, you see them everywhere, despite all the other models around.

Bright light is a common theme in religion, especially because it is the opposite of darkness. Darkness and light have been strong symbols going way back into pre-history.

Bright flashes, bright auras and bright lights also occur with a range of neurological conditions. I remember having them the couple of times I was concussed as a kid.

There are a lot of natural explanations for them, but in our superstitious past, and even today, we see these brain farts as an indication of a supernatural experience.


_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.


Dillogic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,339

23 Feb 2015, 5:14 am

There is no god.

When you're dead [long enough], it's just darkness.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

23 Feb 2015, 5:21 am

What I mean is, when someone dies, they say they see a bright light, then they slip into unconsciousness, deprived of oxygen, various organs throughout their body shuts down and they die. So, people in the immediate vicinity hear about a light right before they stop talking and seem to completely lose touch with what's going on around them, then death. So, it is completely understandable, after seeing this more than once, the living would begin to think this light they are describing must be some kind of divine entity.

It's not just a matter of it being the opposite of dark because they do not say darkness is supernatural. Time and time again light is thought of as being not of this world. So although we can contrast the two ideas, doesn't give us any reason to believe one is divine, the other isn't or that either has any divine significance whatsoever. There must be another connection.



Narrator
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

23 Feb 2015, 5:39 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
What I mean is, when someone dies, they say they see a bright light, then they slip into unconsciousness, deprived of oxygen, various organs throughout their body shuts down and they die. So, people in the immediate vicinity hear about a light right before they stop talking and seem to completely lose touch with what's going on around them, then death. So, it is completely understandable, after seeing this more than once, the living would begin to think this light they are describing must be some kind of divine entity.

It's not just a matter of it being the opposite of dark because they do not say darkness is supernatural. Time and time again light is thought of as being not of this world. So although we can contrast the two ideas, doesn't give us any reason to believe one is divine, the other isn't or that either has any divine significance whatsoever. There must be another connection.

Like I said, the bright light gets more publicity than other NDE's. With trauma, bright lights are often caused by a brain fart. Death is a trauma. People associate it with supernatural because it has a long history of association. When I was a child, I had a bang on the head and saw a bright light. Trauma -> brain fart -> bright light. Shimple! :)


_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

23 Feb 2015, 5:42 am

Narrator wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
What I mean is, when someone dies, they say they see a bright light, then they slip into unconsciousness, deprived of oxygen, various organs throughout their body shuts down and they die. So, people in the immediate vicinity hear about a light right before they stop talking and seem to completely lose touch with what's going on around them, then death. So, it is completely understandable, after seeing this more than once, the living would begin to think this light they are describing must be some kind of divine entity.

It's not just a matter of it being the opposite of dark because they do not say darkness is supernatural. Time and time again light is thought of as being not of this world. So although we can contrast the two ideas, doesn't give us any reason to believe one is divine, the other isn't or that either has any divine significance whatsoever. There must be another connection.

Like I said, the bright light gets more publicity than other NDE's. With trauma, bright lights are often caused by a brain fart. Death is a trauma. People associate it with supernatural because it has a long history of association. When I was a child, I had a bang on the head and saw a bright light. Trauma -> brain fart -> bright light. Shimple! :)

Like, if someone was on their death bed, they get a peaceful, happy look on their face, why we don't exactly know, then they say, "I see a bright glorious light" and then grow silent and die. This is what might have led to the idea God is a bright light and grace is the expression someone who sees the light so we have the word, "grace" associated with the light as well, because of this peaceful calm, happy look people have when seeing the light.



Narrator
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

23 Feb 2015, 7:14 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Narrator wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
What I mean is, when someone dies, they say they see a bright light, then they slip into unconsciousness, deprived of oxygen, various organs throughout their body shuts down and they die. So, people in the immediate vicinity hear about a light right before they stop talking and seem to completely lose touch with what's going on around them, then death. So, it is completely understandable, after seeing this more than once, the living would begin to think this light they are describing must be some kind of divine entity.

It's not just a matter of it being the opposite of dark because they do not say darkness is supernatural. Time and time again light is thought of as being not of this world. So although we can contrast the two ideas, doesn't give us any reason to believe one is divine, the other isn't or that either has any divine significance whatsoever. There must be another connection.

Like I said, the bright light gets more publicity than other NDE's. With trauma, bright lights are often caused by a brain fart. Death is a trauma. People associate it with supernatural because it has a long history of association. When I was a child, I had a bang on the head and saw a bright light. Trauma -> brain fart -> bright light. Shimple! :)

Like, if someone was on their death bed, they get a peaceful, happy look on their face, why we don't exactly know, then they say, "I see a bright glorious light" and then grow silent and die. This is what might have led to the idea God is a bright light and grace is the expression someone who sees the light so we have the word, "grace" associated with the light as well, because of this peaceful calm, happy look people have when seeing the light.

It's a bit of a fable. The picture of the happy dying person, who then sees a bright light, is a Hollywood thing. It happens, but the dramatization of it makes it seem more frequent and more supernatural.

That aside, people often smile at the end of their life. They're tired and ready for it. Also, the organs in a dying body are going through trauma, including the brain, even if the dying person can smile and seem to be at peace.

Wish fulfillment is a strong trait in humans. We need it for survival. But it makes us vulnerable to fairy tales. Why is it that kids have such a strong fantasy life? Because it's part of our survival mechanism. And I for one am glad for fantasy, even if I know that most fantasies are nothing more than fantasy.


_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

23 Feb 2015, 11:15 am

I wouldn't be surprised if I started believing in some sort of god on my deathbed.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,594

23 Feb 2015, 6:37 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if I started believing in some sort of god on my deathbed.


Humans are both blessed and cursed by evolved neocortical advances in brain structure and function.

It's nice to be able to look to the past and forecast future decisions based on that with complex memories that are visual, emotional, sensory, and verbal in nature.

However, to focus on death rather than life is most always a problem no matter who the person may be or what their religion or culture or lack of may be.

Other animals don't have these cognitive derived nightmares, as they LIVE LIFE.

So if what it takes is to believe in an after-life to not worry about death, A LABEL FOR GOD AS LIGHT, OR THE WHITE BEARDED DUDE IN THE SKY.. GOD speed to that is what I say FOR THOSE FOLKS WHO USE IT AND IT WORKS TO QUELL EXISTENTIAL ANGST. ANXIETY can be the killer of human freedoms, the progenitor of fear, the killer of unconditional love, and the father of hate, for some folks too.

When everything is said and done, who did it the scientific way or who it did it the way that works best for real flesh and blood peaceful MIND AND BODY BALANCE IN existence WITH OTHERS is all that TRULY counts.

SOME FOLKS CALL THAT DIVINE LOVE OR UNCONDITIONAL LOVE but the bottom line is it works no matter what the path of metaphor, per vehicles and vessels in life journey that HOUSE WHAT WORKS WORKS....myth or not...

MOST Everything else is just empty shells of words that ARE used as metaphors to make peace of mind possible at all.

Many people gain comfort from religion and the belief in an afterlife, as it simply resolves existential angst otherwise known as 'category 300 generalized anxiety' ABOUT REAL LIFE NOW.

Not everyone has enough relative free will to eliminate that with and through human RELATIVE FREE WILL.

SOME FOLKS NEED A LITTLE HELP AND RELIGION WORKS WELL FOR THAT SPECIFIC EXISTENTIAL FEAR OF DEATH, FOR MANY FOLKS.

The idea that 'we' need to 'figure everything out' has massive human limitations, as humans beings like all other mammals are emotionally driven beings, OVERALL.

And science ain't got much clue about how each and every unique human emotional experiment works per controls or repeatable experiment. Let's face it, overall, science FAILS MISERABLY ON THE HUMAN HEART.

Most ANY INTELLECTUALLY HONEST psychiatrist will tell ya that, even after a decade or so of specialized medical school experience, with extended clinical time with patients.

It might work if 'we' are reptiles but that's simply NOT THE CASE for most healthy human MAMMAL beings, at least....

AND IN a SENSE some folks who do not have so-called 'normal' connectivity with emotions ARE reptiles, as they rely more on the reptilian brain to make decisions that SOME other folks.

NO doubt that is where the more sinister portrayals of horned devils come from, per the 'reptile' beast within the human brain.... in a relative minority of folks EXPRESSING THIS AREA OF THE BRAIN MORE....

Not a broad brush for all atheists but almost all the so-called famous ones have a clear lack of 'AFFECT' PER THE language of affective empathy in their voice.

There is definitely a potential emotional issue per deficits in that area that leads to at least some 'cases' of Atheism....

Folks who do not have the ability to fear death, per innate brain structure or environmental factors are certainly not as concerned about death, as the fear is the concern not the word fear alone.

Therefore, religion does not serve all the carrots it might otherwise, for this minority of individuals, as sometimes boring sticks are not enough to get the PR done and the pews filled.....

OH AND TO answer the question; yes, GOD IS bright Light and everything else ranging from dark to light AND BEYOND WHAT IS AS INFINITY NOW.


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

23 Feb 2015, 7:10 pm

Actually from where I stand believing in God on one's deathbed appears to be the kindest option.



Narrator
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

23 Feb 2015, 7:57 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if I started believing in some sort of god on my deathbed.

Taking out an insurance policy on the afterlife? :P :wink:


_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

23 Feb 2015, 8:46 pm

What I find really fascinating about this topic is it tears right at the heart of the matter. So many people thinking about who or what God is and what you have to do to find God, be included by "Him" or loved, and how "He" appears in your life. There's words like Father, Son and Holy Spirit all thought of as masculine and this big controversy over whether "He" is a man or woman when in reality, you may only actually ever experience God once or twice if you have an NDE, in your life and that is when you die. It's the only time that truly matters. What will you experience in that moment.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 87,510
Location: Queens, NYC

23 Feb 2015, 9:31 pm

Indeed...It would be nice if I didn't merely disintegrate into dust.



Inventor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,014
Location: New Orleans

24 Feb 2015, 8:21 am

Better dust.

The Native American view, "Today is a good day to die." As that mostly fails, it is a good day to go fishing, do something useful for your people, or take a nap.

Taking death out of the picture, nothing left to do but live fully without fear.

No matter how bad life gets, you will always have one final friend, someone who will end all of your pain and suffering.

We all know it is coming, none knows when.

Becoming nothing has political overtones, Physics claims energy can be neither created or destroyed. People do not die from the feet up, the whole system rarely just quits, people do not fade, they are there, then they leave.

Out of body experiences, ghosts, walk ins where someone dies, leaving a still useful body, and someone else comes back in that body. Fairly common, often speaking another language, with a different walk, manners, and not knowing friends and family. Wives say this is my husbands body, but not him, and universally are very happy with the new one.

Walk ins also have names, hometowns, family, and it all checks out, only they died sometime before.

Buddhists work on dying, remembering past lives, and being reborn. They have it down to a Theme Park Ride.

Most souls do not keep it together, some deserve to come back as rats. Most forget everything. Most lives, what are they going to remember, TV?

According to Buddhists, there are seven levels below this world, six above, and few make the cut to live in the next world for even a while. While the next level up is better, it is the same rebirth until ready for the next level.

The light is the door to the next level, few make it through the hall.

There is no god in that system, just beings, some who are trying, some who are failing, all on an endless wheel of life, death, rebirth, until they learn to catch the brass ring, and ascend to a higher level.

The Western, all get into heaven or hell, is a reality TV version. The Judge, Rules.

Buddhist, everyone is driving their own vehicle, some are better drivers.

Islam, driving a car bomb is a win, with free unlimited wine, and 26 virgins.

There is evidence that awareness and knowledge survives death, but there is little evidence of awareness and knowledge.

Humans are middle sized, half way between an atom and the universe, and maybe the place where gross matter develops into a being of energy.

Give it a try, user results may vary.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,594

24 Feb 2015, 10:20 am

^^^

LIKE. :)


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


Venger
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,519

24 Feb 2015, 11:08 am

Dillogic wrote:
There is no god.