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Texas Bathroom Bill Criminalizes the Transgender

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Jacoby
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24 Feb 2015, 2:32 pm

drh1138 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
I think you probably should go to the bathroom of the gender you most appear to be.


That solution doesn't work for those who are androgynous or less-than-passing. Putting people in boxes based on external appearances is never right.


I don't think it is really an issue with the androgynous but less than passing meaning what? A bald guy with a goatee? What is the line? The bathroom is simply about utility, social engineering and feelings shouldn't factor in at least in my opinion. I'm all for gender-neutral family bathrooms and single user ones, but wherever there are separate men and women's bathrooms that's what makes sense to me because otherwise it just defeats the purpose. What if I as man that identifies as a man would prefer to take dumps in the women's bathroom because I think the men's is gross, is that okay or am I going to be quizzed about my gender identity or what? I think it is easy to see why some people might be uncomfortable with it, people just need to understand what the bathroom is really for tho. It shouldn't be held up as some legal recognition of your gender identity, its about expelling waste and that's it.



ominous
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24 Feb 2015, 5:44 pm

Some trans activists and allies often hyperbole that thinking women should have sex based protection means we think transfolk are going to assault women in toilets. I guess that makes it sound dramatic, or maybe some actually do think that?

What I mean when talking about sex based protection is I think women and girls should be safe from penises in change room spaces. Stalls are not a big deal. The case of Colleen Francis (look her up) was over an over the top deal breaker for me when it came to supporting trans rights across the board.

I want everyone to be accepted and to not feel oppressed, but I don't think someone's identity should trump the safety of girls and women. Safety can also mean psychological safety. I don't think transwomen are going to go into the female toilets to assault women, and I do believe if they go into the male toilets they are putting themselves in a dangerous situation.

I do hope people will try and read and understand what I am saying here instead of react with the trans lobby hyperbole line that is so common. I'm actually on the side of keeping both transfolk and other oppressed people safe. ;)



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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24 Feb 2015, 5:57 pm

I have no fear of transexual people or most people in public restrooms. Once you are in that stall you shut everyone away anyway and then there's the handwash. I don't spend much time thinking about who is in the bathroom or hanging out in there but I suppose if you want to put on makeup or something like that, you would be in there longer.



ominous
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24 Feb 2015, 6:01 pm

I have no fear of transgender people in public toilets either. I would prefer transwomen use female toilets for their own safety. I wouldn't be taken aback at all to see transwomen in a female toilet.



Magneto
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24 Feb 2015, 6:03 pm

"Safety from penises"? :?



ominous
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24 Feb 2015, 6:06 pm

I give up. Enjoy the thread.



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24 Feb 2015, 6:25 pm

ominous wrote:


What I mean when talking about sex based protection is I think women and girls should be safe from penises in change room spaces. Stalls are not a big deal. The case of Colleen Francis (look her up) was over an over the top deal breaker for me when it came to supporting trans rights across the board.


I looked her up and found this:
http://www.transadvocate.com/colleen-fr ... _10765.htm

Quote:
What if I were to tell you that, unlike the mountains of reports citing Fox News, the ex-gay advocacy group (oh, did I fail to mention – just like the news reports did – that the Alliance Defending Freedom for Faith and Justice is an ex-gay group?), and the police report, I called the college, got the facts and learned that the facts don’t exactly match up with the myth of the now infamous Evergreen State College incident?
Here’s the nugget of truth to the story: two teens did claim to see Colleen Francis nude while in the Evergreen College sauna.
Here’s what may not have not heard:
The sauna area was off limits to the two teens.
Unless one specifically tries to see inside the sauna, you can’t view the people inside the sauna.
Colleen Francis AND her cisgender female friend were using the sauna together. They were sitting there talking.
At no point did Francis act to expose herself to children.
At no point was Francis walking around nude in the area where children were.
So, the actual story is that two 17 year olds went into an area they weren’t allowed, attempted to view the people in the sauna and saw Francis. The rest of what you’ve probably heard about this incident is, at this point, an urban myth.
My conversation with Todd Sprague, the Executive Director of College Relations was preceded by an email exchange which immediately brought into question everything I thought I know about this incident. Sprague wrote, “Unfortunately many news reports and online commentaries have chosen to take a sensational, and often inaccurate, path in characterizing what has and has not happened at Evergreen.” He went on to clarify, “On the occasion that sparked the media coverage, the individual in question was using the sauna, an area generally off limits to swim team members.” Sprague also made it clear that this was “one incident that occurred in September 2012, not multiple incidents” and that Francis was “covered up with a towel on the way to the sauna and when leaving it. ”
- See more at: http://www.transadvocate.com/colleen-fr ... awvYU.dpuf


So the whole "little girls forced to see a transwoman with male gentital expose him/herself" meme was intended to scare. And it did. But if it didn't really go down the way Fox News reported it (6 year old girls as unwilling witnesses to male genitalia) then what is the problem?



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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24 Feb 2015, 6:32 pm

If you want to put it that way, any guy can run into the lady's room and expose himself. So could any woman. The crime is in actually exposing oneself. You are not supposed to run into a public restroom and just start taking your clothes off just because you are in a public restroom unless you happen to be in the men's room. You have to respect the people in there and go into an area where they can't see your business, as in a bathroom stall, and shut the door.



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24 Feb 2015, 7:22 pm

ominous wrote:
Orangez wrote:
ominous wrote:
My heart really bleeds for the oppressed white guy you must be, Orangez. :roll:

Then why do you support the idea of male and female segregated bathrooms as I used the same logic as that. Please be more logically consistent.


Oh dear. Read up on historical oppression before you come at me here again.


I will give you an understanding of how logic works since you seem to lack that ability. What I used is your argument against you in a way you disagree with. Thus, I have proven to you that you don't believe in your argument, therefore, you original argument is invalid based on your own disagreement with your original point.

I know this is a waste of as you are simple minded as evidence of attacking my character and being racist towards such as implying I have a small penis because I am white. You being racist against me just again proves my point that you have no logical consistency at all.



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24 Feb 2015, 9:01 pm

Kentucky has a pending bill that trans people must use the restroom of their birth gender.

"The issue has been in the public eye since Louisville’s Atherton High School changed its policy last year to allow transgender students to use the bathroom of their sexual identity. Since then, 16-year-old sophomore Christina Kelty has used a private, single-stall restroom because she said she is uncomfortable using the bathroom with a student who was born male. Others, she said, have decided not to use the bathroom at all while at school".

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2015/02/kent ... room-bill/



LoveNotHate
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24 Feb 2015, 10:44 pm

Coincidentally,

I just watched a news program on tv of a 14 year old FTM student that was bullied and felt uncomfortable using the restroom. He is sueing 4 different school districts claiming violation of "Sex Discrimination" and "Equal Protection" clauses.

he asserts:
- the teachers refused to use his male name and used his female name
- did not keep his information private
- bullied by students and teachers
- they did not provide a unisex bathroom, and he had to hold it all day
- he had to change schools four times to get away from the bullying

"... the federal government has filed this brief in support of the child's case - asking the court to prohibit sex discrimination under Title IX and the Equal Protection Clause - signed by the United States Department of Education, the assistant attorney general, the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division and U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/28191 ... r-bullying



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25 Feb 2015, 12:29 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Coincidentally,

I just watched a news program on tv of a 14 year old FTM student that was bullied and felt uncomfortable using the restroom. He is sueing 4 different school districts claiming violation of "Sex Discrimination" and "Equal Protection" clauses.

he asserts:
- the teachers refused to use his male name and used his female name
- did not keep his information private
- bullied by students and teachers
- they did not provide a unisex bathroom, and he had to hold it all day
- he had to change schools four times to get away from the bullying

"... the federal government has filed this brief in support of the child's case - asking the court to prohibit sex discrimination under Title IX and the Equal Protection Clause - signed by the United States Department of Education, the assistant attorney general, the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division and U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/28191 ... r-bullying


Those are some teachers and school administrators who need firing.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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25 Feb 2015, 12:35 am

When I was in school, I hated using the restroom while there not because I was transgender but because I just didn't like the idea of using the bathroom at school. It wasn't until I started drinking more water during the day that I finally got over my fear of public restrooms because I used to be pretty phobic about them.

So reading that high schoolers don't use the bathroom while at school isn't a shock to me because I never wanted to while I was there.



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25 Feb 2015, 6:36 am

Orangez wrote:
ominous wrote:
Orangez wrote:
ominous wrote:
My heart really bleeds for the oppressed white guy you must be, Orangez. :roll:

Then why do you support the idea of male and female segregated bathrooms as I used the same logic as that. Please be more logically consistent.


Oh dear. Read up on historical oppression before you come at me here again.


I will give you an understanding of how logic works since you seem to lack that ability. What I used is your argument against you in a way you disagree with. Thus, I have proven to you that you don't believe in your argument, therefore, you original argument is invalid based on your own disagreement with your original point.

No, you are asserting false equivalency. You are the one being illogical.



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25 Feb 2015, 7:02 am

Orangez wrote:
ominous wrote:
Orangez wrote:
ominous wrote:
My heart really bleeds for the oppressed white guy you must be, Orangez. :roll:

Then why do you support the idea of male and female segregated bathrooms as I used the same logic as that. Please be more logically consistent.


Oh dear. Read up on historical oppression before you come at me here again.


I will give you an understanding of how logic works since you seem to lack that ability. What I used is your argument against you in a way you disagree with. Thus, I have proven to you that you don't believe in your argument, therefore, you original argument is invalid based on your own disagreement with your original point.

I know this is a waste of as you are simple minded as evidence of attacking my character and being racist towards such as implying I have a small penis because I am white. You being racist against me just again proves my point that you have no logical consistency at all.


Please address the issue, not the poster.



Orangez
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25 Feb 2015, 10:18 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Orangez wrote:
ominous wrote:
Orangez wrote:
ominous wrote:
My heart really bleeds for the oppressed white guy you must be, Orangez. :roll:

Then why do you support the idea of male and female segregated bathrooms as I used the same logic as that. Please be more logically consistent.


Oh dear. Read up on historical oppression before you come at me here again.


I will give you an understanding of how logic works since you seem to lack that ability. What I used is your argument against you in a way you disagree with. Thus, I have proven to you that you don't believe in your argument, therefore, you original argument is invalid based on your own disagreement with your original point.

No, you are asserting false equivalency. You are the one being illogical.


How is it a false equivalency? They segregated bathrooms to protect the whites and one of the reason we segregate washrooms due to gender is to protect females. I don't understand since it has the same underlying logic. I was just showing that this logic is the same logic as to protect Whites against Blacks.