Are Autistic Men More Likely to be Misogynistic?

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Autistic Men are More Misogynistic than Average?
I'm a male and I agree. 17%  17%  [ 27 ]
I'm a male and I disagree. 55%  55%  [ 86 ]
I'm a female and I agree. 12%  12%  [ 19 ]
I'm a female and I disagree. 15%  15%  [ 23 ]
Total votes : 155

The_Face_of_Boo
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04 Mar 2015, 7:26 am

androbot01 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Sly's best chances is to work on his diet, or to rely less on online dating and try to build a bond with some girl he knows, I say he has better chance with overweight girls if he's still overweight himself

This is the kind of faulty thinking that leads to misogyny. There are no standards that if met will result in a girlfriend. Relationships form organically out of life.
........
Sly, stay off internet dating sites. Spend some time out in the real world. Personally, I think you're a sweetie, but the pot won't boil if you don't stop staring at it. Relationships are things that happen naturally as a result of living life.


idealy and in the past yes. but todays world no. people have super high standards, perhaps from all they everyone is #1 you're entitled to success. you can do anything. you're super amazing. nonsense they've been told growing up. meeting the requirements won't guarantee you a gf, but not meeting them will guarantee you won't get one. you have to meet thier requirements to be allowed to talk to them and that is where the organic bonding happens.

You are assuming that all women's "standards" are the same.



Individuals of the same species are almost genetically clones except tiny % of variation in DNA ("DNA fingerprint"), yes every individual is unique but not THAT unique, especially among same culture, each one of us is not an isolated temple genetically and culturally speaking.
Most studies on humans show curve bells, correlations ...etc- if each one of us was 100% unique and totally different from the next then such graphs would show mosaic clouds of spread dots. It's for the same reason why there's popular food and unpopular food for example

For example I bet 99.99% of women would prefer a non-serial killer over a serial killer man - and there are logical reasons why, one of them is because most of us humans have a natural fear from death.



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04 Mar 2015, 8:00 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Sly's best chances is to work on his diet, or to rely less on online dating and try to build a bond with some girl he knows, I say he has better chance with overweight girls if he's still overweight himself

This is the kind of faulty thinking that leads to misogyny. There are no standards that if met will result in a girlfriend. Relationships form organically out of life.
........
Sly, stay off internet dating sites. Spend some time out in the real world. Personally, I think you're a sweetie, but the pot won't boil if you don't stop staring at it. Relationships are things that happen naturally as a result of living life.


idealy and in the past yes. but todays world no. people have super high standards, perhaps from all they everyone is #1 you're entitled to success. you can do anything. you're super amazing. nonsense they've been told growing up. meeting the requirements won't guarantee you a gf, but not meeting them will guarantee you won't get one. you have to meet thier requirements to be allowed to talk to them and that is where the organic bonding happens.

You are assuming that all women's "standards" are the same.



Individuals of the same species are almost genetically clones except tiny % of variation in DNA ("DNA fingerprint"), yes every individual is unique but not THAT unique, especially among same culture, each one of us is not an isolated temple genetically and culturally speaking.
Most studies on humans show curve bells, correlations ...etc- if each one of us was 100% unique and totally different from the next then such graphs would show mosaic clouds of spread dots. It's for the same reason why there's popular food and unpopular food for example

For example I bet 99.99% of women would prefer a non-serial killer over a serial killer man - and there are logical reasons why, one of them is because most of us humans have a natural fear from death.


I think that it's safe to say that most people here who don't have relationships and want them, don't have them mostly because they lack the social skills to start them. Therefore, the best advice given could be to give advice around that. Yes, looks are important in the sense that people are likely to go for others who are attractive but it's not nearly as important as the social skills. While there are some people who only want to date supermodels there are others who are more flexible. Personally, I find shared interests more important than looks, although looks can still be important to some extent but I'm actually surprised by how flexible I am with regard to looks.



The_Face_of_Boo
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04 Mar 2015, 8:04 am

Jono wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Sly's best chances is to work on his diet, or to rely less on online dating and try to build a bond with some girl he knows, I say he has better chance with overweight girls if he's still overweight himself

This is the kind of faulty thinking that leads to misogyny. There are no standards that if met will result in a girlfriend. Relationships form organically out of life.
........
Sly, stay off internet dating sites. Spend some time out in the real world. Personally, I think you're a sweetie, but the pot won't boil if you don't stop staring at it. Relationships are things that happen naturally as a result of living life.


idealy and in the past yes. but todays world no. people have super high standards, perhaps from all they everyone is #1 you're entitled to success. you can do anything. you're super amazing. nonsense they've been told growing up. meeting the requirements won't guarantee you a gf, but not meeting them will guarantee you won't get one. you have to meet thier requirements to be allowed to talk to them and that is where the organic bonding happens.

You are assuming that all women's "standards" are the same.



Individuals of the same species are almost genetically clones except tiny % of variation in DNA ("DNA fingerprint"), yes every individual is unique but not THAT unique, especially among same culture, each one of us is not an isolated temple genetically and culturally speaking.
Most studies on humans show curve bells, correlations ...etc- if each one of us was 100% unique and totally different from the next then such graphs would show mosaic clouds of spread dots. It's for the same reason why there's popular food and unpopular food for example

For example I bet 99.99% of women would prefer a non-serial killer over a serial killer man - and there are logical reasons why, one of them is because most of us humans have a natural fear from death.


I think that it's safe to say that most people here who don't have relationships and want them, don't have them mostly because they lack the social skills to start them. Therefore, the best advice given could be to give advice around that. Yes, looks are important in the sense that people are likely to go for others who are attractive but it's not nearly as important as the social skills. While there are some people who only want to date supermodels there are others who are more flexible. Personally, I find shared interests more important than looks, although looks can still be important to some extent but I'm actually surprised by how flexible I am with regard to looks.


And the lack of social skill/social awkwardness is largely undesirable and unpopular, so see? Humans aren't that unique.



gamerdad
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04 Mar 2015, 9:35 am

My gut says, "male and disagree". But given that the voters seem to be predominantly male, and we're a group of people with a lot of self acknowledged deficiencies in seeing things from others' perspectives, this seems like the type of question where cognitive biases could definitely come into play.

Someone said earlier that "emotional maturity" probably plays a bigger role, and that rings pretty true to me. I know I was certainly more misogynistic in my youth than I am now. So I suppose that begs the follow up question, do autistic men tend to have lower emotional maturity than their peers?



kraftiekortie
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04 Mar 2015, 9:43 am

They might. They might not.



androbot01
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04 Mar 2015, 10:02 am

gamerdad wrote:
Someone said earlier that "emotional maturity" probably plays a bigger role, and that rings pretty true to me. I know I was certainly more misogynistic in my youth than I am now. So I suppose that begs the follow up question, do autistic men tend to have lower emotional maturity than their peers?

I know I do. And the autistic males I've met have also been emotionally immature.



kraftiekortie
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04 Mar 2015, 10:04 am

I'm probably emotionally immature for somebody who is 54 years of age.

One of the reasons: I've never had kids. If I had kids, I would probably have matured faster, since raising kids FORCE you to mature.



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04 Mar 2015, 12:40 pm

Another source of misogyny, if you could call it that, rather than simply exaggerated cautiousness, is the media. If you look at most post-1980's TV shows and movies, wives/girlfriends in them are simply horrible! They scream at their partners, use sex as a weapon, damage their partner's property, and so on. Aspies/autistics tend to take that behavior to heart, and react accordingly. Hence, the misogyny.



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04 Mar 2015, 1:43 pm

Autistic men do not seem to be more or less misogynist than any other men. Autistic men are more likely to express it bluntly.



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04 Mar 2015, 1:55 pm

^ And they are black and white thinkers, as are the ASD women.


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04 Mar 2015, 2:02 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm probably emotionally immature for somebody who is 54 years of age.

One of the reasons: I've never had kids. If I had kids, I would probably have matured faster, since raising kids FORCE you to mature.


I don't think this is really true. There are lots of immature parents and parents who are, in various ways, irresponsible.
Reproduction doesn't take that much skill, will or effort.

I suspect I am emotionally immature, too. I try to be a good dad, though.

I am not a misogynist, misandrist or misanthrope.



Geekonychus
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04 Mar 2015, 3:20 pm

gamerdad wrote:
My gut says, "male and disagree". But given that the voters seem to be predominantly male, and we're a group of people with a lot of self acknowledged deficiencies in seeing things from others' perspectives, this seems like the type of question where cognitive biases could definitely come into play.

Someone said earlier that "emotional maturity" probably plays a bigger role, and that rings pretty true to me. I know I was certainly more misogynistic in my youth than I am now. So I suppose that begs the follow up question, do autistic men tend to have lower emotional maturity than their peers?


I don't think emotional immaturity or lack of social skills is the cause of misogyny in Aspies so much as a cognitive empathy gap.

The best example I can think of is the numerous threads I've seen here discussing the issue of consent and rape. Many guys will show high affective empathy for the accused (perhaps being teased or called creepy before in their past) and assume most women are lying. This is where the cognitive empathy gap comes in. It's easier to relate to other sad lonely guys on the internet (like the blatantly predatory pick-up artist community, for instance) then to try to relate to the experiences of someone not like you. Next thing you know, they have internalized the misogyny and as a result, become all but undateable (the clinical term is douchebag.) This "game" nonsense creates far more forever-alones than it does players.

Social skills aren't everything. My luck at dating turned around when I stopped trying so hard and was open about my weirdness. There are girls that like awkward guys, believe it or not, and they aren't worried about how much of an alpha you are or whether you said the exact right thing at the right moment. The thing is, you aren't going to get anywhere at all with a girl if you start the date resenting her.



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04 Mar 2015, 3:31 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
gamerdad wrote:
My gut says, "male and disagree". But given that the voters seem to be predominantly male, and we're a group of people with a lot of self acknowledged deficiencies in seeing things from others' perspectives, this seems like the type of question where cognitive biases could definitely come into play.

Someone said earlier that "emotional maturity" probably plays a bigger role, and that rings pretty true to me. I know I was certainly more misogynistic in my youth than I am now. So I suppose that begs the follow up question, do autistic men tend to have lower emotional maturity than their peers?


I don't think emotional immaturity or lack of social skills is the cause of misogyny in Aspies so much as a cognitive empathy gap.

The best example I can think of is the numerous threads I've seen here discussing the issue of consent and rape. Many guys will show high affective empathy for the accused (perhaps being teased or called creepy before in their past) and assume most women are lying. This is where the cognitive empathy gap comes in. It's easier to relate to other sad lonely guys on the internet (like the blatantly predatory pick-up artist community, for instance) then to try to relate to the experiences of someone not like you. Next thing you know, they have internalized the misogyny and as a result, become all but undateable (the clinical term is douchebag.) This "game" nonsense creates far more forever-alones than it does players.

Social skills aren't everything. My luck at dating turned around when I stopped trying so hard and was open about my weirdness. There are girls that like awkward guys, believe it or not, and they aren't worried about how much of an alpha you are or whether you said the exact right thing at the right moment. The thing is, you aren't going to get anywhere at all with a girl if you start the date resenting her.


Why would you want to date someone who you resent anyway?



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04 Mar 2015, 4:09 pm

BuyerBeware wrote:
I am female; I neither agree nor disagree.

I think that variously "disabled" men and women are more likely to be frustrated with, and ultimately biased against, the gender to which they are romantically attracted (and most likely humanity in general).

It comes as the logical, one might almost say natural, result of a large body of bad experiences, much in the same way that someone who had narrowly escaped death in multiple house fires would be biased against potential sources of future housefires, or a Vietnam vet who was beaten by a group of war protesters as he was leaving the airport upon returning to the States would be prone to hate "hippies."

You can't really blame the person who's had the bad experiences-- yes, we can learn a measure of social skills, but we're still going to have to invest significantly more energy in using them at the same time as we also fail more often, and more egregiously, than the average "normal person."

You can't really blame the women (or men, or people) either. They also are only doing what comes naturally.

You don't blame a gazelle for being terrified of anything that suggests a lion; at the same time, you don't blame the lion for hunting, killing, and eating gazelles.

Bitterness builds up. Such is the nature of human psychology.


I 100% agree with this post.



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04 Mar 2015, 5:33 pm

BuyerBeware wrote:
I am female; I neither agree nor disagree.

I think that variously "disabled" men and women are more likely to be frustrated with, and ultimately biased against, the gender to which they are romantically attracted (and most likely humanity in general).

It comes as the logical, one might almost say natural, result of a large body of bad experiences, much in the same way that someone who had narrowly escaped death in multiple house fires would be biased against potential sources of future housefires, or a Vietnam vet who was beaten by a group of war protesters as he was leaving the airport upon returning to the States would be prone to hate "hippies."

You can't really blame the person who's had the bad experiences-- yes, we can learn a measure of social skills, but we're still going to have to invest significantly more energy in using them at the same time as we also fail more often, and more egregiously, than the average "normal person."

You can't really blame the women (or men, or people) either. They also are only doing what comes naturally.

You don't blame a gazelle for being terrified of anything that suggests a lion; at the same time, you don't blame the lion for hunting, killing, and eating gazelles.

Bitterness builds up. Such is the nature of human psychology.


Yes I agree; this is a good post.

I think most of it is frustration, I think there are few real misogynists (and also few real female misandrists). These words are thrown around too often on the Internet and it's not helpful.

The trouble is, men are valued (by other men and by women) by how popular/successful they are with women. Therefore, if a man can't get a girlfriend he not only misses out on love and sex but he has a very low social standing, Does this work the other way around for women? It probably does. It's wrong but you'd have to be pretty sure of yourself to rise above that way of thinking and how many Aspies have that much self esteem?

As per the quoted post there are also bad experiences to be gotten over. I was ridiculed probably more by girls than boys as a teenager and somehow it just hurt more coming from girls. At that time in my life I thought that I was gay (although I could not disclose this to anyone) so I couldn't be accused of bothering the girls or judging them on their appearances. I certainly was judged and ridiculed though, mostly on my looks (I'm not attractive and looks matter more for a man than most people would care to admit), for not being macho enough, for having a working-class background, for not being a "cool" rebel (drinking and smoking etc) and so on. Sure, I was a bit immature and a bit awkward but I wasn't really a horrible guy. However, I became a social "untouchable" and would get abuse for saying "Good morning" to the wrong person. Curiously, it was often the less attractive girls who would round on me, presumably trying to climb the social ladder by pushing me down. The most attractive people of both genders were secure on Mount Olympus and could afford to be magnanimous.

All of this has left awfully bad wounds and although I try hard to apply adult reasoning to the experiences they are really hard to get over. Being able to discuss them periodically with people who have been through the same thing drains them of some of their poison. It's distressing to see that it is becoming harder to do this, that these experiences are seen as being invalid because I am male. At best it's seen as a bit funny, at worst the memes come out and we're all fedora-wearing neckbearded MRAs etc etc. This isn't going to help anyone.

I don't think many men really think they are "entitled" to a girlfriend as the current Internet reasoning has it. I never did. If anything I felt the opposite - that I was totally unworthy. Guys want to girls to like them though, even if only as a a friend, It feels nice. Can we give shy and awkward guys a bit of a break and not immediately label them as potential serial killers? There probably are some of these hateful, manipulative "Nice Guys" out there but are there really all that many? I think there's far more REAL nice guys who are shy and awkward and inexperienced and immature and who may even never be cut out for a real relationship but nonetheless don't deserve all the sneering and hate.

I wish all this rage could be channeled into polite debate. Can't we just agree that "sh*tty behaviour is sh*tty" and needs to be got rid of, rather than blaming it all on one or the other gender?



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04 Mar 2015, 5:45 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
I don't think emotional immaturity or lack of social skills is the cause of misogyny in Aspies so much as a cognitive empathy gap.

The best example I can think of is the numerous threads I've seen here discussing the issue of consent and rape. Many guys will show high affective empathy for the accused (perhaps being teased or called creepy before in their past) and assume most women are lying. This is where the cognitive empathy gap comes in. It's easier to relate to other sad lonely guys on the internet (like the blatantly predatory pick-up artist community, for instance) then to try to relate to the experiences of someone not like you. Next thing you know, they have internalized the misogyny and as a result, become all but undateable (the clinical term is douchebag.) This "game" nonsense creates far more forever-alones than it does players.

Social skills aren't everything. My luck at dating turned around when I stopped trying so hard and was open about my weirdness. There are girls that like awkward guys, believe it or not, and they aren't worried about how much of an alpha you are or whether you said the exact right thing at the right moment. The thing is, you aren't going to get anywhere at all with a girl if you start the date resenting her.


jono wrote:
Why would you want to date someone who you resent anyway?


Someone further up the thread pointed out that they've seen the "alpha male" types treat women like a neccesary evil so that they can have a sexual relationship with someone. All they want is sex, but it comes attached to a woman they don't particularly like, but their hormones want the sex so they spend time with the person they don't like because they are attracted to her. Not very mature, but it happens.

Geekonychus' post is one I would upvote/like if we had that function. Yes, I totally agree that it would be easier to empathise with the dude who is being called a creep if you are a decent bloke who has also been called a creep even though you meant well, but in doing that, missing the point that the guy they are defending isn't like them and is actually a complete total and and utter creep.