What are your thoughts on this?

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This is a post about my 9 year old. He's not on the spectrum but has sensory integration issues, probable dyslexia and possible ADD.

Background: He scores really high on cognitive tests, but it does not reflect in his school performance because of the issues he deals with. The public school does not have the resources to properly help with Dyslexia, and is in a class with 32 kids. He has usually hovered around grade level in most subjects, and been ahead in others- but if you looked at his cognitive scores, there is a huge gap between what you expect and what he can actually do. This year, he is having a harder time because the math is becoming more abstract (he is better with visuals). Plus, his teacher is not giving him the testing accommodations he needs because (I think) they seem over the top to her. I think she is just writing him off as not that bright.

Anyway- this is what she said to me about him the last time we spoke:"I want you to know that your son is a great kid, and he still can be a productive member of society, just not in an academic way. Maybe he can be an artist."

Now, if my son became an artist I would think that was great. If he rejects a more academic career choice because he wants to, that's great too. But, I really think it is not that my son is not an "academic type." I think he is just not being taught in a way his brain can learn. I also think the fact that he can hover around grade level despite these challenges says something. I found what she said very annoying.

What are your thoughts? Am I seeing what I want to in him? Or, is this teacher just writing him off?

It doesn't seem as if he has severe dyslexia. He's at grade level for me most things. How could a teacher determine a kid's future at 9 years if age?

When I was in 7th grade, I failed or got 65s in English. In 8th grade, I got 85s or 90s. The reason: a big crush on my 8th grade teacher. MOTIVATION!

If people tried to determine the ultimate fate of Woodrow Wilson at age 9, they wouldn't have predicted an academic future for him. However, he became the only President with a Doctorate. He learned how to read at age 8.

Einstein didn't seem fated for great things at age 9, either.

Yes, kraftiekortie, it does not seem to be severe. He has a computer program to write on that is able to predict what he is trying to spell. He reads pretty well, but he definitely has a learning disability. He was just evaluated by a neuropsych, so we will find out for sure what it is very soon.

He just read a biography of Albert Einstein and said "Albert Einstein had a hard time in school too!" I often tell him that it is not that he isn't as smart as other kids, but that his brain ticks differently. I then list people who also had learning differences, including Einstein and Darwin.

That statement is so offensive in so many ways, I don't even know where to start.

Those are my same feelings, YippySkippy.

Perhaps you should remind the teacher that there has been research conducted that demonstrated that teacher expectations impact student performance and tell her that if he does poorly, you will view it as a reflection of her negative attitude.

Of course, right now, I am wholly unable to remember the researcher or the study, but hopefully someone can. It is part of Psych 101. Basic research. Students were randomly assigned to "bright" vs "average" groups and teachers were told results of "test" that they supposedly took. At the end of the study, the "bright" group actually performed better, which is statistically unlikely given the students were randomly assigned, so there were likely an equal number of bright and average students in each group.

People with this kind of attitude should not be allowed to teach. Unfortunately, I am sure she is not in the minority. It is much easier to identify the kid as the source of the "problem" instead of wondering if there is something different the teacher can do. And we wonder why our school system, as a whole, is in so much trouble.

It is crappy that his teacher has judged him this way, it means that she will not try hard to help him learn, as he lacks academic potential in her opinion.

One thing about the discrepancy between cognitive test scores and school performance is that some kids may score high on the individual rigid subtests of cognitive tests that require a specific set of limited functions, such as memorizing and reciting digits backwards and forwards, but they may not do as well when integrating material requiring many connections or abstractions. This discrepancy in specific functions vs. integration ability could account for the discrepancy between cognitive vs. school performance. However, integration can be trained over time, math and science study is a good way to do it, I think better than any other way.

Another thing is how is his processing speed?
Some teachers may make judgments of kids if they appear to get answers slower than other kids, but the kid ackshuly has a processing speed problem or speech/verbal processing problem. For eggsample, once a kid understands the verbal instructions for some task, they may do as fast or faster than other kids who may have processed the verbal instructions faster and appear overall faster.

Learn as much as you can how to reach him and if you can pay someone to tutor who's good, I would do that. They're slow to spend on twice exceptional kids.

My daughter has a problem similar to this. If it is the first time she has heard an instruction, she gets very anxious and she has a hard time understanding what she is supposed to do. She needs to be given the instruction in a non-threatening environment first (1:1, where she is not expected to perform), and then she does much better. This includes even non-academic things. Like the first time she goes to a structured birthday party at a new venue. She will not participate, even if it is something simple like "jump off of the trampoline, into the pit of foam balls," because she cannot understand the instructions. She can do both things, but because the instruction is not familiar, she can't understand what she is supposed to do. This is why we have to do a lot of preparatory work for everything. She needs to understand what to expect in advance. This makes her look "slow" initially in school sometimes, when really she is advanced. She has a longer space between first exposure to competency, but once she masters it, she is usually ahead of her peers.

Along these lines, could the teacher send you things he will be learning in advance so that you can go over it with him so it isn't new when he gets it in school?

It is basically a variant of "The world needs garbagemen too" or some such. No way talk about children. And to suggest artist as a profession is a bit weird too, of course it is possible that someone really makes it as an artist or a professional athlete but most people simply don't. If it works out, great, but kids need an education to fall back on that allows them to get a job.

Well, the first part of the statement is insulting and dismissive. But the part about being an artist is just plain nonsensical. Why that profession, specifically? Does she think people who don't do well in school become artists? Where did she get that idea?
In the end, I think this teacher is just a ding-dong weirdo.

InThisTogether, I once saw a program on that research study. I don't think she's telling *him* the things she told me, hopefully not. But, yeah, I think she pretty much gave up on bothering trying to reach him.

Btbnnyr, I should clarify. I don't think he does well on all of the cognitive tests. He does extremely well on some of the subtests, like matrix reasoning, verbal, etc. but then lower (although still pretty high) on other subtests, then not so great in other ones. But the areas he does really well on pull up the overall IQ score (which is what I meant by doing well on the cognitive tests). His memory recall has always been a weaker area. He has a really hard time recalling math facts like times tables. Sometimes he can memorize something temporarily, but then it gets lost again. I actually have no idea about his processing speed, but he just finished an evaluation with a nuero psych. When I get the results, I'm sure I'll know more.

Waterfalls, I am trying to find a tutor we can afford but they are really expensive here. I am, though, trying to get him in a different school for kids with learning disabilities. The schools I am looking at do well with twice exceptional kids.

Trollcatman, I agree. Besides the fact that my son could never be a garbage man since he gags so much he vomits from unpleasant smells (one of his sensory issues), I have nothing against my son being one- but it is not an appropriate expectation for a kid just because they have a learning disability. My hope is that my kids are self sufficient to their potential, and live a full and productive life. What bothers me also is that I think my son actually is academically inclined, he is just having an issue learning some of the material he is expected to master because his brain processes information differently. I think if we can figure out how he learns, he will soar. She is just not seeing what I do.

YippySkippy, I think she said "artist" because it is the one area (besides science) that he shows advanced talent in. He draws a lot and is really good at it. She was trying to point out a strength as the "meat" of the s**t* sandwich she was delivering. It insulted me as well because I am in an artistic field, and it's not because I'm stupid .

I've been taught to try to pair learning language issues with something fun, like a game, and to try to create a structure of facts around needed information for my daughter to learn things. Flash cards are a complete waste of time for her though repetitive practice has been recommended. It's useless as empty facts, she simply can't retrieve the information without a structure to do so. The other thing I've learned is that she needs to learn one or a couple things at a time, and often the special homework to remediate the learning problem is too spread out over multiple concepts. Makes me crazy sometimes. But hopefully the testing will have some good recommendations you, and the school, can use.

It can be terribly frustrating, even good teachers may have no idea how to teach your child with his specific needs. And one has to maintain a positive supportive attitude with school people or things go downhill very fast.

The teacher can't cope with 33 kids in the class and one child doesn't have the regimented learning style. They have a system and your child doesn't fall into that system. It does not mean there is anything wrong with your child, nor is it a mark on his intelligence, but rather, it is the system's failure to acknowledge and act on the reality that kids learn differently.

My brother is dyslexic and my mother taught him to read. Not the school, but my mother. Unfortunately, because he had other issues back in the day, that weren't acknowledged, he was written off as being just a naughty kid and he lived to fulfill that prophecy. But he wasn't inherently a bad kid. Just made bad choices. He hated reading, but learned to love it and was always asking his younger sister (me), if I had read any good books lately. Something he found difficult suddenly became amazing. A whole world opened up to him. Reading isn't for everyone, but the fundamentals are essential in this world.

As far as being academically inclined or artistically inclined, I firmly believe that yes, some people can be predisposed for a strength in an academic or non-academic field, BUT, I also believe that the reason a child struggles so much in school is because the infrastructure (in this case probably more one-on-one tuition to cater to the needs of various individuals on a particular subject) is not available, or is most likely expensive. A teacher telling you what your son can or cannot do (when you know he's capable of a lot) seems to be telling you they don't know how to help with the standardized teaching methods and resources they have at their disposal. - That is my humble opinion. Did the teacher offer any recommendations to assist with his difficulties? I assume not, based on what you have said.

Waterfalls, he does tend to learn best through playing games. Flash cards are useless for him too. And, yes, I do, despite being annoyed, have to have a good relationship with the teacher. Especially because I need a recommendation for schools for him from her. And, I agree, I don't think she's a bad teacher in the manner in which she was taught to teach, but it's not working for my kid and she doesn't know how to teach him. It's probably frustrating for her, so it's easier for her to turn it into him not being academic and pointless to try.

I also agree with you, Prairie_Fairie. She has too many kids in her class and is overwhelmed. She wouldn't have time if she even wanted to. The school system is set up for one mold only, and it's sink or swim. I also taught my son to read. I borrowed a bunch of stuff from my friend's mom who works with learning disabled kids to teach him. He wasn't learning with the program they had at school. And, no, she offered no advice other than to, seemingly, try to get me to accept him as someone who will never do well academically.

Obviously this teacher is wrong and out of line. On the plus side from a pragmatic standpoint, you know her position, and therefore when you need to go over her head to get her to implement the IEP properly. My son's first grade teacher had "honest" moments where she would say harsh, ridiculous things, and I think it encouraged me to take action faster than the when he had nice, sugar-coating kind of teachers, where I assumed things were OK and they were not.

Last edited by ASDMommyASDKid on 02 Mar 2015, 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.