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Meistersinger
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16 Mar 2015, 12:07 pm

Raptor wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
Rather thin-skinned, aren't you?

If you want to pay my expenses for moving to the UK, I'll gladly do so.

Thin skinned? No, I just think that a nanny state would be a better fit for you.

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As you posted previously, there should be this type of gun training in the high schools, along with rifle clubs. The local school districts had them, many years ago, especially around deer-hunting season. Why don't they have them now?

Some public schools do teach it and at least a few states are looking it making it statewide. Gun clubs usually offer gun safety training. Hunter safety classes are prerequisite to getting a hunting licence in most or all states.

Quote:
Very simple: we live in a litigious society, where the slightest deviation from common sense can cost we the taxpayers millions of dollars. The only thing I ask about gun ownership is to take the time to use the damn weapon safely and properly. If you can't do that, according to quite a few hunters that I know personally, then you have no business owning a gun.

Your method is quite invasive (not to mention unconstitutional) and gives the government yet another power to abuse with no evidence of the need for it.

Quote:
I'm so much of a damn klutz that I would have shot myself. I also have poor eyesight. I can't even hit the broadside of a barn with a softball. Just what makes you think I can do so with a gun? Is that REALLY too much to ask? Apparently, by your smart-arsed response for me to move to the UK, it must be so.

End of rant. Send all replies to /dev/null.


I don't know or care what you can do with a gun.


And you wonder why the pro-gun lobby has such a bad reputation...

My offer still stands: pay all my expenses to move to the UK, and I'll gladly move.



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16 Mar 2015, 12:30 pm

Meistersinger wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
Rather thin-skinned, aren't you?

If you want to pay my expenses for moving to the UK, I'll gladly do so.

Thin skinned? No, I just think that a nanny state would be a better fit for you.

Quote:
As you posted previously, there should be this type of gun training in the high schools, along with rifle clubs. The local school districts had them, many years ago, especially around deer-hunting season. Why don't they have them now?

Some public schools do teach it and at least a few states are looking it making it statewide. Gun clubs usually offer gun safety training. Hunter safety classes are prerequisite to getting a hunting licence in most or all states.

Quote:
Very simple: we live in a litigious society, where the slightest deviation from common sense can cost we the taxpayers millions of dollars. The only thing I ask about gun ownership is to take the time to use the damn weapon safely and properly. If you can't do that, according to quite a few hunters that I know personally, then you have no business owning a gun.

Your method is quite invasive (not to mention unconstitutional) and gives the government yet another power to abuse with no evidence of the need for it.

Quote:
I'm so much of a damn klutz that I would have shot myself. I also have poor eyesight. I can't even hit the broadside of a barn with a softball. Just what makes you think I can do so with a gun? Is that REALLY too much to ask? Apparently, by your smart-arsed response for me to move to the UK, it must be so.

End of rant. Send all replies to /dev/null.


I don't know or care what you can do with a gun.


And you wonder why the pro-gun lobby has such a bad reputation...


1 .What bad rep would that be? Be specific, please.
2. What does my last reply have to do with it?


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Meistersinger
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16 Mar 2015, 1:01 pm

Raptor wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
Rather thin-skinned, aren't you?

If you want to pay my expenses for moving to the UK, I'll gladly do so.

Thin skinned? No, I just think that a nanny state would be a better fit for you.

Quote:
As you posted previously, there should be this type of gun training in the high schools, along with rifle clubs. The local school districts had them, many years ago, especially around deer-hunting season. Why don't they have them now?

Some public schools do teach it and at least a few states are looking it making it statewide. Gun clubs usually offer gun safety training. Hunter safety classes are prerequisite to getting a hunting licence in most or all states.

Quote:
Very simple: we live in a litigious society, where the slightest deviation from common sense can cost we the taxpayers millions of dollars. The only thing I ask about gun ownership is to take the time to use the damn weapon safely and properly. If you can't do that, according to quite a few hunters that I know personally, then you have no business owning a gun.

Your method is quite invasive (not to mention unconstitutional) and gives the government yet another power to abuse with no evidence of the need for it.

Quote:
I'm so much of a damn klutz that I would have shot myself. I also have poor eyesight. I can't even hit the broadside of a barn with a softball. Just what makes you think I can do so with a gun? Is that REALLY too much to ask? Apparently, by your smart-arsed response for me to move to the UK, it must be so.

End of rant. Send all replies to /dev/null.


I don't know or care what you can do with a gun.


And you wonder why the pro-gun lobby has such a bad reputation...


1 .What bad rep would that be? Be specific, please.
2. What does my last reply have to do with it?


The fact that anytime the topic of gun ownership and gun control comes up, the pro-gun lobby goes on a smear campaign against the opposition, no matter how benign the comment that was made. I made the comment if you own a gun, training in proper use and care should be a prerequisite to owning a gun. For example, would you rather have your appendix removed by a board-certified surgeon or a back alley hack? Gun ownership should be viewed in the same manner.

Your last reply implied that I am less of a person because i don't own or know how to use a gun. I get tired of that kind of bullsh!t coming from the pro gun lobby. I made what I considered to be an innocuous opinion, yet people like you and your ilk jump all over my fat f!cking arse for expressing that opinion. You should be glad I don't know and don't want to know how to use a gun, because when my short fuse gets lit, the resulting explosion lasts for quite a while, and everyone usually regret setting me off.

Of course, we should all follow the old adage, if you don't have anything nice to say, keep your f!cking mouth shut.



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16 Mar 2015, 1:33 pm

^
More evidence of the projection theory?


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AspieUtah
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16 Mar 2015, 2:05 pm

Meistersinger wrote:
...I made the comment if you own a gun, training in proper use and care should be a prerequisite to owning a gun.

[...] You should be glad I don't know and don't want to know how to use a gun, because when my short fuse gets lit, the resulting explosion lasts for quite a while, and everyone usually regret setting me off....

Many states already require such training for firearms, but many don't. Is there a difference between the statistical evidences to suggest that states which don't require training have more accidental discharges? I haven't heard of any such difference either way.

Your self description suggests a lack of experience in shooting firearms. Most states' laws allow you to rent firearms at shooting ranges. This provision helps those businesses and individuals who are providing and enrolling in firearm-safety classes so that hands-on experience is affordable with the least amount of interference by law. Most states even let you join an uncle, niece or neighbor to learn the basics of firearms and shooting.

I have instructed several family members and friends who, while not wanting to buy, own or possess a firearm themselves, want to get over their fear of firearms and shooting, or at least add to their life experiences by knowing how.

You might consider enrolling in such a class or asking someone you know to give you the basics at a nearby shooting range when it is convenient for both of you. You might discover what most people discover after firing their very first shot: That their only fear was in their minds and that shooting a firearm is fundamentally simple and easy. They usually react with asking the hypothetical question "THAT is what I was so worried about?" They find it fun, exhilarating and ... empowering" not because they want to rush out and shoot down innocent people, but that they could defend themselves all by themselves if they chose to do so. After such an experience, few need more instruction unless they want specific competition, hunting or tactical knowledge.

Just a suggestion. Think about it. :)


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16 Mar 2015, 2:15 pm

Meistersinger wrote:
The fact that anytime the topic of gun ownership and gun control comes up, the pro-gun lobby goes on a smear campaign against the opposition, no matter how benign the comment that was made.

What credit does the opposition have other than emotion? If bringing facts to the table is smearing then so be it.

Quote:
I made the comment if you own a gun, training in proper use and care should be a prerequisite to owning a gun. For example, would you rather have your appendix removed by a board-certified surgeon or a back alley hack? Gun ownership should be viewed in the same manner.

You want to give the government more power to abuse.

Quote:
Your last reply implied that I am less of a person because i don't own or know how to use a gun. I get tired of that kind of bullsh!t coming from the pro gun lobby.

BS, no one cares whether you own or know how to use a gun. It was never about that and you know it. And since when am I the pro-gun "lobby". I dont' work for the NRA or GOA


Quote:
I made what I considered to be an innocuous opinion, yet people like you and your ilk jump all over my fat f!cking arse for expressing that opinion. You should be glad I don't know and don't want to know how to use a gun, because when my short fuse gets lit, the resulting explosion lasts for quite a while, and everyone usually regret setting me off.

You expressed your opinion and i expressed mine. You seem to think no one else should have an opinion if it's in conflice with yours.

Quote:
Of course, we should all follow the old adage, if you don't have anything nice to say, keep your f!cking mouth shut.

Take your own advice, then....


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16 Mar 2015, 3:02 pm

sly279 wrote:
if you know someone with guns who wants to kill themselves, go to them be like hey why don't you let me hold on to these for you until you feel better. and also talk to them about why they feel that way, then when they feel better they get their guns back instead of saying hey gov go take their property and never give it back and better yet make it so they can never buy them again for the rest of their life, even 50 years from now when they've gone 49 years without depression.

Yes, I agree----this goes back to what I was saying, before----we have to do something about people with MENTAL ILLNESS, having access to guns!! Take Adam Lanza, for instance..... His mother loved guns, taught Adam how to use them, took him to target practice (shooting range, or whatever)----even taught him safety and care, and had a gun cabinet. Her mistake was when he started acting all cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs (darkness, depression, anxiety, whatever), she didn't get her guns out of the house----or, take some other measure----and away from HIM. I guess she didn't think about how when people "go" to that "dark place", or they snap, or whatever, common sense just seems to instantly escape their being.

Another example is my aunt's best friend's son..... He was dodging airplanes in the living room. He went and bought a shotgun; she (my aunt's friend) was sitting right there, when he brought it in the house----said she watched him take it upstairs, to his bedroom..... Well now, I'm thinking if MY son was dodging planes in the living room, and I saw him bring a gun home, I CERTAINLY wouldn't allow him to keep it!! He offed himself in the backyard----in his note, he said he didn't want to ruin his mother's carpet / furniture.....

There REALLY needs to be MORE people wanting to help those with mental illness----and, MORE people who know HOW!!


you can't not unless they were committed, broke a law, showed to others they were violent, or went to a therapist for help. so unless they have a record for such things, you can't know they are going do it so you can't preemptive bar them from owning guns without baring everyone from owning guns. as for those with records, well we have system in place for that but its broken and no one wants to fix it instead they want to add onto the broken system. expanding its brokenness. if a metal is rusting and you just paint over it i'ts still going rust through, you have to remove the rust then paint. though in this case expanding the system is wrong, if you just fixed it then you'd catch most the people the others have no record.

I agree that the system is broken; and that, instead of fixing it, they're just ADDING to the mess----your rust / paint analogy, was especially good!!



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16 Mar 2015, 5:04 pm

Raptor wrote:
Meistersinger wrote:
The fact that anytime the topic of gun ownership and gun control comes up, the pro-gun lobby goes on a smear campaign against the opposition, no matter how benign the comment that was made.

What credit does the opposition have other than emotion? If bringing facts to the table is smearing then so be it.

Quote:
I made the comment if you own a gun, training in proper use and care should be a prerequisite to owning a gun. For example, would you rather have your appendix removed by a board-certified surgeon or a back alley hack? Gun ownership should be viewed in the same manner.

You want to give the government more power to abuse.

Quote:
Your last reply implied that I am less of a person because i don't own or know how to use a gun. I get tired of that kind of bullsh!t coming from the pro gun lobby.

BS, no one cares whether you own or know how to use a gun. It was never about that and you know it. And since when am I the pro-gun "lobby". I dont' work for the NRA or GOA


Quote:
I made what I considered to be an innocuous opinion, yet people like you and your ilk jump all over my fat f!cking arse for expressing that opinion. You should be glad I don't know and don't want to know how to use a gun, because when my short fuse gets lit, the resulting explosion lasts for quite a while, and everyone usually regret setting me off.

You expressed your opinion and i expressed mine. You seem to think no one else should have an opinion if it's in conflice with yours.

Quote:
Of course, we should all follow the old adage, if you don't have anything nice to say, keep your f!cking mouth shut.

Take your own advice, then....


First off, I never said no one else should have an opinion. You're the one that went on the attack after I expressed my opinion. Is it any wonder people like Tallyman and Oliveoylmom left here for greener pastures? My health is bad enough. I really don't need more bullsh!t right now. I haven't gotten a good nights sleep in over a week, no thanks to the reaction I had from cipro and Flomax, I'm looking at major surgery in the near future because of kidneystones, I have a car that needs repair work and I'm 2 weeks out from my next disability check, I got blindsided (again) in the middle of another family fight that I wasn't privy to the details, I'm been close to several meltdowns in the past week due to all the bullsh!t going down in my life. I'm damn sick and tired of the anxiety and depression because I've been taken advantage of AGAIN!

Like I said, you wanna pay my freight to the UK? BE MY GUEST!

But of course, this is the USA, land of the free and home of the rednecked idiots.



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16 Mar 2015, 5:57 pm

Meistersinger wrote:
...But of course, this is the USA, land of the free and home of the rednecked idiots.

But, the states with the most restrictive firearm laws have the highest number of firearm-related violence. So, shouldn't Americans choose to live in "red-neck" states where violent crimes are less prevalent? At least, they should hope that their state legislatures would adopt the same laws that the low-crime states enjoy.


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16 Mar 2015, 6:35 pm

the antis do far more smear campaigns then the gun lobby.

"NRA are child murders" comes to mind.
"if you own gun you're a child killer"

"all the gun owners care about is guns"

etc non of what they say is truthful so they are smearing their opposition to try to get what they want. why can't they just be happy with not owning guns and leave those who do alone. they fight for gay rights, black rights, illegal immigrant rights, but then they try to destroy gun owners rights, and tell people what they can and can't eat/drink. i don't get how people can pick and choose rights. either support all rights or admit you're just wanting to control people



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17 Mar 2015, 2:48 am

Meistersinger wrote:
First off, I never said no one else should have an opinion. You're the one that went on the attack after I expressed my opinion.
You've been on this forum long enough. You knowingly kicked a hornet's nest when you aired your opinion. There ARE people that shouldn't be allowed within shouting distance of a firearm but that risk is just the price of freedom.

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Is it any wonder people like Tallyman and Oliveoylmom left here for greener pastures?
Sure, they left on account of me. :roll:

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My health is bad enough. I really don't need more bullsh!t right now.I haven't gotten a good nights sleep in over a week, no thanks to the reaction I had from cipro and Flomax, I'm looking at major surgery in the near future because of kidneystones, I have a car that needs repair work and I'm 2 weeks out from my next disability check, I got blindsided (again) in the middle of another family fight that I wasn't privy to the details, I'm been close to several meltdowns in the past week due to all the bullsh!t going down in my life. I'm damn sick and tired of the anxiety and depression because I've been taken advantage of AGAIN!

Then why, pray tell, are you stirring the hornet's nest here of all things???
In '13 I got laid off and my dog died (to name the worse of it) and I didnt come to this forum or WP at all for about four months. I wasn't intentionally avoiding it, I just had too many other things on my plate to even think about coming here and I had no desire to until things started to get back on track.

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Like I said, you wanna pay my freight to the UK? BE MY GUEST!

Whatever....

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But of course, this is the USA, land of the free and home of the rednecked idiots.

You know what they say about those who would trade their freedom for safety and security (the illusion of it, anyway).


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Mastercraft
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24 Mar 2015, 5:21 am

Wow, this got a little out of hand. First of all, as the OP, I apologize for not posting until now, I have been busy. I also apologize for not going through these messages completely at the moment, as I am at work. I will pour over your opinions when I get home, and reply if I have anything to say.

First of all, another apology. I was incorrect to use the term 'pro-gun', at least not without clarifying what I meant by that. To be frank, I am indeed supportive of gun control, but only to an extent. This derives from my special interest: when I am at a firing range, with a rifle against my shoulder, focusing on the target, I feel more awake and relaxed than I ever have before. When the 'Anti-Firearm' controversy started, I was misinformed and was afraid I would lose that feeling. I was still a teenager, so I didn't have a rifle of my own, and feared I would not be able to. Especially since I live in New York, which has considerably strict laws regarding this.

So, I sided with the National Rifle Association, thinking they would 'protect my rights'. However, when I received a pamphlet from them, I was quite disillusioned. They are pretty much what everyone thinks they are, unfortunately. At least from the pamphlet, they wanted some fairly standard demands, namely firearms NOT being summarily banned. But they also wanted to lift age-restraints, as well as let known criminals purchase them. And that is not what I wanted.

So, after attempting (and failing) basic training, I have been thinking about what I personally believe in. And I have some ideas:
1. I believe all people who are interested in firearms should be required to get training BEFORE they are allowed to purchase.
2. I believe the current age-laws are acceptable, being 16 and over to get a rifle, and 21 and over to get a handgun.
3. I believe that the term 'guns' is almost derogatory, with how much it's been throw around recently. Hence why I either name the specific type, or use firearm. Similarly, I don't like 'assault weapon'. There are assault rifles, which makes it a little confusing. And technically, ALL weapons are used for assaulting. Hence the term 'weapons'.
4. I believe in background checks, and obviously, that 'mental illness' should be checked with the DSM, as Autism is currently identified as a Pervasive Developmental Disorder. (This, also, extends to government in general)
5. I believe that weapons of any kind should be transported either dismantled, or unloaded, and in a locked box.

My break is over so I'll stop there. Also, I wanted to add that 'background checks' are a flawed system. The federal government has a database of every criminal, as well as crimes, and all details thereof. Sellers of firearms should be able to access this database, because many people charged with crimes are later found innocent. Or are charged with felonies or misdemeanors that are in no way related to firearms. It would be terrible to be denied ownership because of a record of traffic accidents or overdue speeding tickets.



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24 Mar 2015, 9:11 am

Mastercraft wrote:
...So, I sided with the National Rifle Association, thinking they would 'protect my rights'. However, when I received a pamphlet from them, I was quite disillusioned. [...] But they also wanted to lift age-restraints, as well as let known criminals purchase them. And that is not what I wanted....

I spent seven years as an NRA member before moving on to the Second Amendment Foundation, and I am loathe to defend the NRA. But, it joins most other Second Amendment advocacy groups in supporting: 1) the idea that, if an individual has the right to vote in federal elections and the liberty to serve in the federal military with a firearm at 18 years of age, then the individual should also have those rights and liberties in his or her private life, too, without having to wait until he or she is 21 years of age; and 2) the idea of the restoration of Second Amendment rights for those individuals who have had their rights restricted by a court order because of one or more criminal acts, and have done what is necessary for the restrictions to be removed by a subsequent court order; this usually requires years of extraordinary work and contributions to an individual's family, community and any victims to restore whatever damage he or she did to receive the restrictions.

Both these ideas are common sense, in my opinion. I would hope that our federal constitution and laws, and the courts that impose their penalties, are just enough to see that, in the United States, we allow for the restorative value of justice when those who work hard for years accomplish it. Let's not make our federal punishments lifelong when future circumstances dictate that they shouldn't be so.

So, in these two matters, I agree with the NRA and all the other Second Amendment advocacy groups, and the stakeholders of our national society who agree with their wisdom.


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24 Mar 2015, 1:36 pm

My main problem with the NRA is that if you give them $20 to join, they'll spend $40 on junk mail trying to get you to cough up more, though I can't argue with their political efficacy.


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24 Mar 2015, 9:22 pm

Dox47 wrote:
My main problem with the NRA is that if you give them $20 to join, they'll spend $40 on junk mail trying to get you to cough up more, though I can't argue with their political efficacy.


this and that i can't really afford it anyways is why I don't join them. I don't want to be sent stuff.



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24 Mar 2015, 9:34 pm

Mastercraft wrote:
So, after attempting (and failing) basic training, I have been thinking about what I personally believe in. And I have some ideas:
1. I believe all people who are interested in firearms should be required to get training BEFORE they are allowed to purchase.
2. I believe the current age-laws are acceptable, being 16 and over to get a rifle, and 21 and over to get a handgun.
3. I believe that the term 'guns' is almost derogatory, with how much it's been throw around recently. Hence why I either name the specific type, or use firearm. Similarly, I don't like 'assault weapon'. There are assault rifles, which makes it a little confusing. And technically, ALL weapons are used for assaulting. Hence the term 'weapons'.
4. I believe in background checks, and obviously, that 'mental illness' should be checked with the DSM, as Autism is currently identified as a Pervasive Developmental Disorder. (This, also, extends to government in general)
5. I believe that weapons of any kind should be transported either dismantled, or unloaded, and in a locked box.

My break is over so I'll stop there. Also, I wanted to add that 'background checks' are a flawed system. The federal government has a database of every criminal, as well as crimes, and all details thereof. Sellers of firearms should be able to access this database, because many people charged with crimes are later found innocent. Or are charged with felonies or misdemeanors that are in no way related to firearms. It would be terrible to be denied ownership because of a record of traffic accidents or overdue speeding tickets.


military basic? I can't stand people that think you have to be military trained to own guns like some how they are superior and any non cop/military person is inferior human.

1. nope. suggested sure required no. training can help, but training doesn't equal good. people can self teach better, trainers can be awful. now can people self teach sh***y and can trainers be great sure. but great trainers cost hundreds and thousands of dollars. its fine how it is.
2. pretty sure you have to be 18 to buy a rifle. if you can own a rifle you should be able to won a handgun, in fact it is legal for a 18 year old to own one, just not buy, so someone can buy one for them, or they can inherit one. makes no sense.
4. system needs fixed. why should they check the dsm? only those who are adjudicated to be mental ill are on the list.
5. nope what point is there in owning a gun then. i carry mine loaded, when i go to the range the guns i don't carry go unloaded. disassembled o.O why the heck ? you afriad of a empty gun? reminds me of that senator or reporter who said unloaded disassembled guns kill people.

i think the 1968 gun act and 20s gun act need removed. these laws are just illogical.
its all about artificially raising prices and taxing people.