"I'm an expert, I have a cousin/child that has it."
26 Mar 2015, 11:00 am
Jaden wrote:
So you're ok with money being wasted on the idea of a cure that will never happen, because it makes you feel like progress is being made or could be made, rather than being used to help autistic people, where progress actually is made?
Frankly, it makes more sense to use money to make real progress happen, rather than waste it on the idea of change that will never happen.
Frankly, it makes more sense to use money to make real progress happen, rather than waste it on the idea of change that will never happen.
No, but if there's no money at the end of it, why would a large pharmaceutical or medicine company invest in autism research? And if a cure is so unwanted it may put off non-financially incentivised research funders as well.
ASPartOfMe
Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,417
Location: Long Island, New York
26 Mar 2015, 2:21 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
How many people will be forced to take the cure before or if the protests are successful? If this does happen that would mean the protests to stop it failed. That means any protests to stop what is already gone into effect have a much greater chance of failure because the profits will be pouring in and society will be happy autism is gone. That is being realistic.
Buzz201 wrote:
Define "forced", I can't see any modern nation forcing anyone to take the cure, but they could certainly make it advantageous.
"society will be happy autism is gone", aren't you supposed to making society happy autism exists? Is that not a direct contradiction to your earlier statements
"society will be happy autism is gone", aren't you supposed to making society happy autism exists? Is that not a direct contradiction to your earlier statements
I can see a modern society legally requiring it if enough fear is created but as as wrote I think it is more likely to make it so disadvantageous if you refuse to to take it you might as well be legally forced. We won't hire you if you don't take it, will will triple your insurance if you don't take it, You will be shamed if you don't take it. If you don't take it is proof you are mentally ill (fictitious disorder?). It may not be specifically said, just acted upon.
Nothing I said is inconsistent. I said if we give up and accept that society will never accept us chances are zero society will change they will do to us as they please. If we fight while chances may be low but it is better then zero. If we fight and lose society accepts a cure, the decision has been made that autism is a horrible burden that has to go and when it goes or declines most will be happy. That means chances are better of stopping a cure or forced cure before it happens then to try and revert a decision that has been made.
_________________
Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
26 Mar 2015, 7:42 pm
ASPartOfMe wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
How many people will be forced to take the cure before or if the protests are successful? If this does happen that would mean the protests to stop it failed. That means any protests to stop what is already gone into effect have a much greater chance of failure because the profits will be pouring in and society will be happy autism is gone. That is being realistic.
Buzz201 wrote:
Define "forced", I can't see any modern nation forcing anyone to take the cure, but they could certainly make it advantageous.
"society will be happy autism is gone", aren't you supposed to making society happy autism exists? Is that not a direct contradiction to your earlier statements
"society will be happy autism is gone", aren't you supposed to making society happy autism exists? Is that not a direct contradiction to your earlier statements
I can see a modern society legally requiring it if enough fear is created but as as wrote I think it is more likely to make it so disadvantageous if you refuse to to take it you might as well be legally forced. We won't hire you if you don't take it, will will triple your insurance if you don't take it, You will be shamed if you don't take it. If you don't take it is proof you are mentally ill (fictitious disorder?). It may not be specifically said, just acted upon.
Nothing I said is inconsistent. I said if we give up and accept that society will never accept us chances are zero society will change they will do to us as they please. If we fight while chances may be low but it is better then zero. If we fight and lose society accepts a cure, the decision has been made that autism is a horrible burden that has to go and when it goes or declines most will be happy. That means chances are better of stopping a cure or forced cure before it happens then to try and revert a decision that has been made.
I'll expand on what ASPartOfMe has said.
There is already a lot of precedent for this pressuring of people. There are multiple ways in which it can happen too.
1. Societal Pressure - Only 30-40 years ago, women carrying mixed-racial children were often pressured into abortion and even disowned by their families if they didn't. Now we see that same phenomena associated with down syndrome. We will see that phenomena with Autism once a genetic key is found that could be used in prenatal testing.
Societal pressures would also include Autism Speaks placing flyers with misleading information in abortion clinics.
2. Financial Pressure - As ASPartOfMe said, there are a ton of different ways that financial pressure can be legally applied. Wasn't the starvation of an autistic man who removed from UK's welfare system on the news just a few days ago? It is hard enough for all people labeled as disabled to get the help they need. With the presentation of a cure, there is no way that they aren't going to remove autism from the welfare system. If they actually manage to develop a cure, which they probably won't since they'll stop with prenatal testing, then this is the most likely result for us.
If we refuse the cure, either we will be declared to be defective and unable to make decisions for ourselves and forcibly cured or we'll be declared "selfish" for wanting to be ourselves and deprived of all support and financial services open to other people.
_________________
Now take a trip with me but don't be surprised when things aren't what they seem. I've known it from the start all these good ideas will tear your brain apart. Scared, but you can follow me. I'm too weird to live but much too rare to die. - a7x
27 Mar 2015, 6:39 am
Buzz201 wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
Well there are people out there that don't eat meat, hey you don't represent them, clearly we need to get rid of all the meat products. When does this nonsense stop?
The dehumanization of our people is NOT an opinion, equality and parity is the exact same right afforded to others. I represent AS people only in the way of being in touch with the community. You on the other hand, have thoroughly escaped reality. You do not represent AS people, it's a gross inaccuracy to infer there's a large portion of us wanting the spectrum to be wiped out, a "cure" would certainly not be optional.
Constantly sinking money into eugenic elimination is a disgrace, they might as well made a money bonfire with it. That money could have been used to help the families and people who have fallen on hard times.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
The dehumanization of our people is NOT an opinion, equality and parity is the exact same right afforded to others. I represent AS people only in the way of being in touch with the community. You on the other hand, have thoroughly escaped reality. You do not represent AS people, it's a gross inaccuracy to infer there's a large portion of us wanting the spectrum to be wiped out, a "cure" would certainly not be optional.
Constantly sinking money into eugenic elimination is a disgrace, they might as well made a money bonfire with it. That money could have been used to help the families and people who have fallen on hard times.
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
Equality and parity aren't afforded to other groups, even now women don't really have equality, homosexuals don't really have equality, transgender people don't have equality, even physically disabled people don't really have equality. Sure things have improved for all these groups, but it hasn't and won't ever reach an absolute 0. The same would be true for autistic people, perhaps even more so since many are not outgoing or fond of public speaking. The truth is, it's far easier to write autistic people off than any of those other groups, so the fight is likely to be longer, harder and significantly less fruitful.
You don't represent AS, no one person does. You don't represent me, I have Asperger's. I don't represent you (and I never said I did). No one person is representative of ASDs and it would be wrong for anyone to assume that.
Everything I've seen about Asperger's and Autism makes me seriously doubt the existence of a cure, I was just saying that money put into the field (even if for the wrong reason) might yield advantages, and that it was wrong to shout down every piece of research that vaguely mentioned a cure.
Yet that is slowly changing for the better.
"You don't represent" is just another ad hom used by people who would write off what is being said, to institute their own warped reality. It would be like telling a gay person: "No, you don't represent gays, being gay is a choice." I'll say it again; That we don't want the spectrum to be wiped out, that we don't want to be eliminated, or "fixed", IS in fact, representative of the people. I'm sure there are people that believe the bigoted opinions, and buy into the self hate, much like there would be a small portion of gay people that hate themselves, yet even still, it is accurate to say that actually Autistic people do NOT share those bigoted opinions.
Squandering so much on research is wrong, for many reasons, the main one being that the money is not being used to help people and their families, that could use that money right now. Curebies seem to care a lot about people with intellectual disability, or learning disabilities like dyslexia, why aren't they instead using that money to help families offset the enormous costs of private tuition?
btbnnyr
Veteran
Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago
29 Mar 2015, 9:52 pm
I don't understand why people focus so much on curing autism, since in many cases the people who they want to cure of autism also have intellectual disability, so they need to come up with a cure for intellectual disability too, because even if the autism gets cured, many of the people who get cured of autism will still have major functioning problems due to intellectual disability and still need lifelong care and still be far from normal.
_________________
Drain and plane and grain and blain your brain, and then again,
Propane and butane out of the gas main, your blain shall sustain!
29 Mar 2015, 10:03 pm
btbnnyr wrote:
I don't understand why people focus so much on curing autism, since in many cases the people who they want to cure of autism also have intellectual disability, so they need to come up with a cure for intellectual disability too, because even if the autism gets cured, many of the people who get cured of autism will still have major functioning problems due to intellectual disability and still need lifelong care and still be far from normal.
Yes.
| Similar Topics | |
|---|---|
| Were you an active child? |
Today, 5:30 am |
| Loving the child hating their autism? |
16 Apr 2024, 7:08 am |
| Raising a child with autism in Kenya |
03 Mar 2024, 7:51 pm |
| Michigan man arrested for sex crimes against child |
26 Mar 2024, 1:59 pm |
