How does one behave on a 'second date'?

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NO.


Emphatically NO. You do nothing.


Yep…you're out of time. OK…do nothing. You've basically got one week and you haven't seen her really enough to make this work. Enjoy this last week, see her once or twice at least if you CAN. See if you can just call and chit-chat over the break (please, no more than an hour at a time). When you get back, you need to hang out at least once a week, twice if you can manage it. Give it 4 weeks. Then try to kiss her. Seriously, you can jump back in the saddle as soon as you get back and you'll be fine.

Are things going to cool off? Yes, let's just face reality and be done with it. But if she's really worth it, she's the sort of person who can pick right back up where you left off. Keep things friendly and casual until then.

You are not ready, repeat NOT READY to play with matches right now (my way of saying taking caution-to-the-wind risks).

Heh…too bad you can't skip traveling and stay with local friends/relatives in the meantime. But, that's just part of your life right now. You're almost old enough to move out and nobody can stand in your way. Keep hanging in there.

Alright.

What I want ask is, why do you think this suggested method is important?

Justcurious that's all.

I've seen your other posts in the forums and you've responded tosome of my previous stuff.

It seems the standard is, talk for just a miniscule amount of time,then asking them out on a date.

You've suggested hanging out for a fair bit, getting to know them and then attempting to go further.

I definitely agree with your idea morebut Im just wondering, how doesit work?

Is itbetter to get toknowsomeone and become a minor/average friend, but make a move BEFORE you become a good friend?

It's better to get to know someone before jumping into a relationship.

I agree but isn't dating the process of getting to know them?

Dating is that. But you're not often in a full-fledged relationship when you're "dating."

My suggestions are just a quick way to get dates. Here's the rundown:

Basically you start out by scouting out people you see on a daily or weekly basis. You see someone who appears to be pretty cool, someone who sees you all the time, someone you are already in a sort of mutual comfort zone with. Could be work, school, or in my case, when I take my youngest kid out to the walking track at the park. This is basic making-friends kind of stuff.

My first step is the first five minutes. You definitely want to keep an eye on your watch when you do this. Five minutes, and get out. That's the whole "Hi! My name is____. I see you out here all the time and thought I'd say hello. Where do you work? Oh really? Then you probably know ____. Yeah, pretty cool guy. So what do you do out there? Oh wow…must have taken you a long time to learn how to do that. College? I see…so where did you go to college/uni? No kidding?! I went there back in ____. Did you have ____ for history? Yeah, he was a hoot! Hey, I have to go. Have a good one, and see you next week!"

Attraction is a push/pull kind of thing. Everyone does this. That's why flirting is so effective, and why you have to keep a time limit on things. Leave room for things to become interesting.

The next step is turn 5 minutes into an hour. So the next time you see her, stay on then 5 minute countdown.

"Hi there! You're ______, right? Enjoyed our chat last week. How's ______ doing? Cool. So what do you do besides work and coming here? Oh really? That's nice. Any hobbies, stuff like that? OK…you know, I've always wondered how _____ works, and you could probably tell me. OK. Ok. I see…oh, I get it. You make it sound easy! Wow, that's really interesting. So how do you_____? Ah, ok, that makes sense. Well…hey, I've gotta run. Enjoyed talking with you! I'd like to know more about ______. What are you doing for lunch? Maybe we can talk more about it then. Oh, here's my number. Just send me a text or call or whatever, and hopefully we can get together."

With any luck, she agrees to meet you for a quick lunch somewhere, which turns into an hour. You start with where you left off and spend the rest of the conversation chasing rabbits. You don't have to know a darned things. You don't even really have to say much. You are interested in her, so you show that by keeping her talking at all costs. And you listen, pay attention, and as soon as you are alone, you MAKE NOTES. As in WRITE STUFF DOWN so you'll remember, and that way you can Google what you talked about and maybe have some way of keeping it going the next time.

This is just the casual "hey, let's hang out stage," which sounds to me like where you are.

After you "hang out" a few times, you get to know her, you know what she likes, find out where she likes to eat, favorite foods, movies, bowling/mini-golf/paintball/etc. So when you feel comfortable and you're wrapping up your lunch/coffee/beer date, you say "Hey, you said you like roller skating…I suck at roller skating, but it looks like fun. Maybe you can help me stay on my feet this Saturday? Whadya think?"

BOOM.

You got a date…as in a REAL date.

Doesn't MEAN anything, you're still just a couple of friends hanging out. But it's a little bit more intimate and less casual than it was before. The dynamics of the relationship are shifting.

When you've done this for, say, three months and NEITHER OF YOU ARE SEEING ANYONE ELSE, neither of you are even interested in seeing anyone else, it's time to move the needle into romantic relationship territory. Holding hands is a good start. Once you move to kissing, it's pretty much a done deal, and you'll want to sit down and talk about what you expect from a relationship and hopefully agree that you both want the same things.

In the adult world, if you keep this up 6 months to a year, it's time to talk marriage and family, so I'm going to stop right there. The thing about dating and relationships is taking the time to get to know someone long enough that you feel comfortable around each other, you know you have shared interests, and you can be compatible in the long term.

Where YOU are right now is still in the more casual phase. What you want to do is move this towards a romantic relationship. Trouble is you have too many things working against you. You MUST hold off until after the holidays if you want any chance of this happening in any kind of lasting, meaningful way. EVEN IF you managed to get a commitment out of her the day before you leave, you're pretty much screwed because you're gone before you have any time to enjoy it. Come back from the holidays, start over at the casual, hanging out for an hour a couple of times a week stage, and see if you can push for a LTR after you've been home for a month.

There are never any guarantees, and the odds are never in your favor. If you do this, this is your best shot. Your success or failure will teach you a lot of things, and if she rejects you as a love interest after you've been home a month and you've resumed seeing her regularly, we'll want to talk about what went wrong and how to better proceed in the future. Right now, this relationship just isn't in the cards for you for a lot of different reasons, the biggest one being the distance you're about to put between yourselves in the next week. Like I said, talk to her every chance you get, try to hang out with her two more days, and then do whatever you have to do to put this out of your mind while you enjoy your holidays. Come back with a fresh perspective, and do just what I said.

I can't repeat this enough--no matter what ultimately happens, you'll learn a lot and you're going to be just fine.

Thank you. What I've also found out however is I won't be gone for as long as I predicted.

I'll only be away for just 1 week and the holiday's is 2 weeks long.

Perhaps I could see her maybe one or two times in this second week once I get back.

Well, there you go.

It's not very romantic to lock someone into a relationship just before you disappear. That's never any fun. You want to get the ball rolling and keep it rolling. Which is why one month uninterrupted is such a good thing.

One thing I left out of my dating plan that is vitally important for newbs is when you first start out, you're not just hanging out with one woman. This is to increase the likelihood that you'll find at least one person who likes you back, ideally more than just one person, and you'll be able to choose someone you feel most compatible with. You've skipped to the more exclusive approach, which is fine for people who have gotten to know several moos already, who are pretty confident about meeting moos, and don't feel they have anything to lose by setting laser sights on just one person. Probably the vast majority of relationships form that way.

Something else you should probably tweak in the way you mentally approach this is the idea of "getting the girl," as in getting her to like you or "fall in love" with you. We haven't talked about this very much. A lot of guys have successfully used manipulative tactics to sway a girl's emotions in his favor. You don't really do yourself any favors going that route. And you also have to consider that any advice that I or anyone else can give you really just puts you in the ballpark. It's not a guarantee that you're going to "make" her have the hots for you.

That's why I always preach sincerely putting her interests ahead of your own. And I stress "sincerely." If you're a fake, once she officially becomes your gf, you're going to get lazy. When you get lazy, you get boring. When you get boring, she sees you for the fake you are and breaks up with you. Disaster almost always comes to those with evil motives. I think Charles Manson was a bigger fan of Dale Carnegie than I am and used the same techniques I'm suggesting. What we hope for is when we draw people into our circles that nobody ends up dead or in prison. The changes Susan Atkins made and the good she did later in life will always be overshadowed by the fact that California put her in the slammer, threw away the key, and left her there to rot. Don't be a depraved lunatic. Just love people.

I've encountered a new possible problem, or as usual my negative thinking is affecting things.

Its possible she's making up excuses not to see me.

We went out for coffee tuesday and i asked if i could see her again thursday or friday.

She said she was busy so i suggested something on the weekend, not saturday because i am busy but sunday.

At first we went back and forth with a few ideas of what to do on sunday, the next day she says she has work 'all weekend' and 'long, 7 hours shifts'.

Earlier this afternoon I suggested to just see her for coffee again maybe sunday. or monday. or tuesday. when she is ready and not busy. And that I want her to take her time to decide.

She said she 'doesn't know' and will have to get back to me.

Well, I'm not going to bother her anymore for now and wait all weekend until asking about it again.

But...still.

It's possible im going across as too needy/obsessive. F*ck my life. I need to focus on other things instead of just her.

Or like i said its possible she really is just busy. I mean, she would have schoolwork and yea she does have a job.

It's just the Sunday thing that threw me off.

One night I suggest doing something on sunday and basically get a maybe, next day a no because she has work.

I feel like ive made a mistake of some sort or done something wrong. If i have, again f*ck my life.

If I am just overthinking things as usual, then lets hope so.

I need to go ahead and write a book…

But, yeah, you ARE over thinking things. If you have some time, you can revisit how I like to handle rejection.

If you're following my advice on getting dates, you'll know I have a "rule of 3." Here's how it works:

Any time you ask a woman out, it has to be date specific. You ask for one particular day. Don't fish for more. You might get her on that day, you might not. But you don't ask about other days. Why is that? It comes across as harassing. "I said 'no,' enough is enough." If you get rejected for that one day, you leave it alone. If she's really busy, she might just want one day to herself.

Now, this is where the "rule of 3" begins.

This is your first rejection. It's probably legit. Don't read anything into it. Leave it alone.

Come back a week later. If there's a day you know she normally has no work or other activities, ask her out no less than 3 days ahead of that day. See if she accepts.

If she rejects you, this is rejection #2. Probably legit, but it's also a possible indicator that her interests are leaning in a different direction. In my mind, this is a pretty serious strike against a possible relationship candidate. But I'm all about giving people a fair chance. So I would give it one more week.

So you come back a week later and she still rejects you. This is rejection #3. Rejection #3 says, "Get lost, buddy…not interested." That's the we're-done-here rejection. Please, for the sake of your mental and emotional health, forget this girl.

I still find it troubling that you're so focussed on her. I don't really know your situation that well, but begging for dates and pestering her about every single day of the week comes across creepy at worst, desperate at best. Women find that to be a turn-off…and women who enjoy these kinds of games are not the kinds of women you want to end up in a relationship with. Trust me on that…had to learn that from experience, and it wasn't fun. So when I say you need to wait a week between asking her out on dates, I mean that as a MINIMUM. Ideally, it would take a lot longer to even get around to asking her out because you're too busy entertaining other women in between.

Another thing, and why I think I should just write a book: My ideas on dating are not original. Some of it is from my own experience and a lot of bitterness towards two individuals I'm having a difficult time letting go of…and all this after more than 10 years. My conclusion is that dating in the conventional sense is dead and trying to get into relationships that way is just beating a dead horse. PUA literature is solid psychologically, completely backwards morally and ethically, and utterly abusive in practice. In short, PUAs are dead on in what they say, horribly wrong in what they actually DO. So stay away from them. As I've mentioned before, I'm a huge fan of Dale Carnegie, and his teachings regarding HR are easily applicable to to dating and relationships.

And while I'm a child of the 80's, I more admire the dating practices of American affluent and upper middle class families back in the 1950's. You really had to be severely imbecilic not to get a date back then. The reason why is that boys and girls from those socio-economic classes used dating as a way to get to know each other and their families. Sexual mores were conservative to the point of outright repression (personally, I don't think that's a bad thing, but whatever), so most of the time you didn't really worry about inappropriate behavior. Girls could go out with a different guy every week, boys could go out with different girls every week. And girls really did have a lot of power, because they were taught that while it's ok to accept dates and see someone new every weekend, that didn't mean she had to be an easy date, i.e. accept every request. Over time, a girl and a boy might "go steady," but it took a lot more than 3 dates to get there. Bfs/gfs were just part of the family, and everybody knew each other and got together at barbecues and stuff. It wasn't that big a deal.

See, nobody does this anymore, which is why dating sucks so bad. For dating to be successful, you have to reevaluate what dating success actually means. For me, that would simply mean never spending an entire weekend alone. Forget romance, forget relationships. Just have a good time. The other stuff will come naturally over time. Enjoy the time you have for as long as you have it. When both of you are ready, you won't have to wonder.

If you know that she works over the weekend, then I'd just take her word for it that she's just busy. It's just one time that she says that she won't make it. You go to the same school together, so don't worry, you'll see her again next week. If I was unsure whether or not someone someone's response meant that they weren't interested, then I usually take the direct approach, rather than what AngelRho's suggesting, i.e. just ask her. Say "If you don't want to hang out again, then I'll understand. In fact, I'll appreciate it if you told me if you don't want to do it again, rather than trying to spare my feelings" or something to that affect. If she tells you directly, at least it's much better than being confused about why she keeps making excuses and trying to guess whether she's really busy or just trying to avoid going out with you.

You better not break this girls heart. Someone opening up to you like that is a big deal and it means that she trusts you. It would be devastating to her if you let her down now. Be a gentleman and treat her right and you should do fine.

That's all I got.

Just me overthinking again.

Some good news: SHE asked ME to the movies.

That's a first.

It was always me making the suggestions but this...this has surprised me.

Cool!

If she strokes your hand or something, I would stroke it back, and perhaps kiss the hand.

Otherwise, when you have the inevitable urges, just think to yourself: "Whoa there, Trigger!"

I think having a substantive discussion about the movie is much more valuable than getting a little "tongue action."

I was actually wondering if I should go a bit further and start touching her more.

I was thinking of maybe holding her hand. But in a way that appears I'm not doing it on purpose.

It's hard to explain.

It's like, when we go into the movies, I want to take the lead and grab her hand "Come on, let's try to get in first so we can pick our seats!" or something along those lines.

Maybe I can convince her to share popcorn and do the old 'accidental hand touch'.

She might even try and initiate touch with me, I'm not sure. Will just have to see what happens.

I sense that she wants to take things slowly.