wisconsin to force workers to work 7 days without a break

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auntblabby
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21 Mar 2015, 1:05 am

LBJ was a tragic figure with a lot of skeletons in his closet. he truly was one with an angel over one shoulder and a demon over the other. sad. what could have been...



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21 Mar 2015, 1:12 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, maybe next time those blue collar guys who don't appreciate what liberalism has done for them will reconsider voting for the candidate with the R with his name.
My dad, who had been a union man, not long before he retired during the Reagan years, had been crestfallen at how the other working class guys he had worked with were ready to throw the Dems over for Ronny Raygun. My dad was never a great believer in the mental capacity of the average joe - a point I used to argue with him. Since then, I think I see what he meant.


Are you trying so say that the Georgia peanut farmer was a better president? Many democrats of that era would disagree, hence the term "Reagan Democrat".
Hell, my old man was a democrat but I think even he grudgingly admitted to voting for Reagan.
But then again you thought that buffoon LBJ, who made a mess out of US involvement in Vietnam and drove the south republican, was a good president.
I guess I rest my case....


Jimmy carter had had a bad run of events, and Ronnie had taken advantage of it.
As for LBJ - Vietnam was a bad situation he got saddled with from Eisenhower and Kennedy, and he handled it badly only because he thought it was a side problem in comparison to his domestic agenda.
As far as LBJ being faulted for losing the south - he knowingly chose to go with a decision - civil rights for black Americans - which was the morally right one. He can't be faulted for doing the right thing, as the problem lay with racist whites, not with him and his cause.


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21 Mar 2015, 1:21 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, maybe next time those blue collar guys who don't appreciate what liberalism has done for them will reconsider voting for the candidate with the R with his name.
My dad, who had been a union man, not long before he retired during the Reagan years, had been crestfallen at how the other working class guys he had worked with were ready to throw the Dems over for Ronny Raygun. My dad was never a great believer in the mental capacity of the average joe - a point I used to argue with him. Since then, I think I see what he meant.


My husband and sons would all vote for the candidate that promised them the possibility of more hours at work so they get overtime. Some people want to work like that and don't consider it a hardship. Those of us who are really struggling at times to just pay the bills and get by are the ones who would run to the polls to get the chance for more hours, thus more money.

How is an opportunity to make more money a bad thing?


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auntblabby
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21 Mar 2015, 1:25 am

^^^
the problem is, that in actual fact it turned out to be, that what mostly the GOP has wraught for the working class and the newly working class that used to be middle class, is MORE hours all right, but LESS money. with jobs shipped overseas en masse and the ones remaining non-union for the most part with a fraction of the wage, that is what has really happened. for example, grayhound bus drivers used to make a decent middle-class salary for the time, but now they are barely above minimum wage. airline pilots also, for the most part, make a fraction of what they used to make and with NO benefits and much longer hours/worse working conditions.



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21 Mar 2015, 1:27 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, maybe next time those blue collar guys who don't appreciate what liberalism has done for them will reconsider voting for the candidate with the R with his name.
My dad, who had been a union man, not long before he retired during the Reagan years, had been crestfallen at how the other working class guys he had worked with were ready to throw the Dems over for Ronny Raygun. My dad was never a great believer in the mental capacity of the average joe - a point I used to argue with him. Since then, I think I see what he meant.


My husband and sons would all vote for the candidate that promised them the possibility of more hours at work so they get overtime. Some people want to work like that and don't consider it a hardship. Those of us who are really struggling at times to just pay the bills and get by are the ones who would run to the polls to get the chance for more hours, thus more money.

How is an opportunity to make more money a bad thing?


Of course it's not a bad thing, except when it's not a choice. And it has to be remembered, Dick Cheney had met with American businessmen to teach them how to weasel out of paying overtime, or providing benefits. I'm pretty sure the crowd running Wisconsin right now are of the Cheney school of thought.


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21 Mar 2015, 1:35 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, maybe next time those blue collar guys who don't appreciate what liberalism has done for them will reconsider voting for the candidate with the R with his name.
My dad, who had been a union man, not long before he retired during the Reagan years, had been crestfallen at how the other working class guys he had worked with were ready to throw the Dems over for Ronny Raygun. My dad was never a great believer in the mental capacity of the average joe - a point I used to argue with him. Since then, I think I see what he meant.


Are you trying so say that the Georgia peanut farmer was a better president? Many democrats of that era would disagree, hence the term "Reagan Democrat".
Hell, my old man was a democrat but I think even he grudgingly admitted to voting for Reagan.
But then again you thought that buffoon LBJ, who made a mess out of US involvement in Vietnam and drove the south republican, was a good president.
I guess I rest my case....


Jimmy carter had had a bad run of events, and Ronnie had taken advantage of it.
As for LBJ - Vietnam was a bad situation he got saddled with from Eisenhower and Kennedy, and he handled it badly only because he thought it was a side problem in comparison to his domestic agenda.
As far as LBJ being faulted for losing the south - he knowingly chose to go with a decision - civil rights for black Americans - which was the morally right one. He can't be faulted for doing the right thing, as the problem lay with racist whites, not with him and his cause.


s**t, Vietnam expanded under LBJ and was criminally mismanaged by his administration. Look it up sometime....
Say what you want about LBJ's civil rights campaign (which would have eventually happened even without him) but that's still a lot of combined electoral votes lost by him.


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21 Mar 2015, 1:41 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, maybe next time those blue collar guys who don't appreciate what liberalism has done for them will reconsider voting for the candidate with the R with his name.
My dad, who had been a union man, not long before he retired during the Reagan years, had been crestfallen at how the other working class guys he had worked with were ready to throw the Dems over for Ronny Raygun. My dad was never a great believer in the mental capacity of the average joe - a point I used to argue with him. Since then, I think I see what he meant.


My husband and sons would all vote for the candidate that promised them the possibility of more hours at work so they get overtime. Some people want to work like that and don't consider it a hardship. Those of us who are really struggling at times to just pay the bills and get by are the ones who would run to the polls to get the chance for more hours, thus more money.

How is an opportunity to make more money a bad thing?


Of course it's not a bad thing, except when it's not a choice. And it has to be remembered, Dick Cheney had met with American businessmen to teach them how to weasel out of paying overtime, or providing benefits. I'm pretty sure the crowd running Wisconsin right now are of the Cheney school of thought.


Dick Cheney.:roll: Will your kind ever get over the Bush Administration (a.k.a. The Sith, or the Third Reich)??


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21 Mar 2015, 1:47 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, maybe next time those blue collar guys who don't appreciate what liberalism has done for them will reconsider voting for the candidate with the R with his name.
My dad, who had been a union man, not long before he retired during the Reagan years, had been crestfallen at how the other working class guys he had worked with were ready to throw the Dems over for Ronny Raygun. My dad was never a great believer in the mental capacity of the average joe - a point I used to argue with him. Since then, I think I see what he meant.


Are you trying so say that the Georgia peanut farmer was a better president? Many democrats of that era would disagree, hence the term "Reagan Democrat".
Hell, my old man was a democrat but I think even he grudgingly admitted to voting for Reagan.
But then again you thought that buffoon LBJ, who made a mess out of US involvement in Vietnam and drove the south republican, was a good president.
I guess I rest my case....


Jimmy carter had had a bad run of events, and Ronnie had taken advantage of it.
As for LBJ - Vietnam was a bad situation he got saddled with from Eisenhower and Kennedy, and he handled it badly only because he thought it was a side problem in comparison to his domestic agenda.
As far as LBJ being faulted for losing the south - he knowingly chose to go with a decision - civil rights for black Americans - which was the morally right one. He can't be faulted for doing the right thing, as the problem lay with racist whites, not with him and his cause.


s**t, Vietnam expanded under LBJ and was criminally mismanaged by his administration. Look it up sometime....
Say what you want about LBJ's civil rights campaign (which would have eventually happened even without him) but that's still a lot of combined electoral votes lost by him.


Sure, LBJ's mishandling of Vietnam was indefensible: he had let the policies regarding the war be handled by others when he was more interested in domestic policies - something that he definitely knew better not to allow to happen, but did.
As far as civil rights - it was the right thing to do, case closed. If white southerners wanted to change parties in order to preserve their racist way of life, well, that was on them, not Johnson. What? Are you constantly thinking: "What if LBJ hadn't enacted civil rights so I could be a Democrat?"


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21 Mar 2015, 1:53 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Well, maybe next time those blue collar guys who don't appreciate what liberalism has done for them will reconsider voting for the candidate with the R with his name.
My dad, who had been a union man, not long before he retired during the Reagan years, had been crestfallen at how the other working class guys he had worked with were ready to throw the Dems over for Ronny Raygun. My dad was never a great believer in the mental capacity of the average joe - a point I used to argue with him. Since then, I think I see what he meant.


My husband and sons would all vote for the candidate that promised them the possibility of more hours at work so they get overtime. Some people want to work like that and don't consider it a hardship. Those of us who are really struggling at times to just pay the bills and get by are the ones who would run to the polls to get the chance for more hours, thus more money.

How is an opportunity to make more money a bad thing?


Of course it's not a bad thing, except when it's not a choice. And it has to be remembered, Dick Cheney had met with American businessmen to teach them how to weasel out of paying overtime, or providing benefits. I'm pretty sure the crowd running Wisconsin right now are of the Cheney school of thought.


Dick Cheney.:roll: Will your kind ever get over the Bush Administration (a.k.a. The Sith, or the Third Reich)??


You Republicans stop pushing those Sith Lords on us, and I'll stop bitching about them.
By the way, I was only making a point by bringing up Cheney.


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OliveOilMom
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21 Mar 2015, 3:11 am

auntblabby wrote:
^^^
the problem is, that in actual fact it turned out to be, that what mostly the GOP has wraught for the working class and the newly working class that used to be middle class, is MORE hours all right, but LESS money. with jobs shipped overseas en masse and the ones remaining non-union for the most part with a fraction of the wage, that is what has really happened. for example, grayhound bus drivers used to make a decent middle-class salary for the time, but now they are barely above minimum wage. airline pilots also, for the most part, make a fraction of what they used to make and with NO benefits and much longer hours/worse working conditions.


Wages for certain things can be going down because they aren't in demand as much anymore. Bus drivers for one, people aren't using buses as much anymore so they don't have as much of a demand for them and the companies make less so they have to pay their employees less. They can't pay them the same thing when profits drop, if they don't make changes in number of employees and in wages then they are just going to go bankrupt and not be able to hire anybody or make any more at all.

Some are gone altogether. You used to not be able to swing a dead cat without hitting a tv repairman's truck or a payphone. You'd be hard pressed to find either now, they aren't needed anymore. The repair guys who were around when the new tv's hit the market found out fast that they aren't needed like they used to be. They had to find something else to do. The division of the phone company that took care of the pay phones is gone. No more pay phones really. No need to have the guys to work on them and install them. They had to find something else. It's a shift in what we buy and use now.

There is a shift in what products produce a profit and what products are slowly going away. They do send a lot of call center and tech jobs and such overseas and some manufacturing ones as well because it's cheaper and while I'm not for sending jobs out of the country I can understand a company deciding to because the goal of a company is to make money, unless it's a not for profit org, and in that case they won't have much to pay the employees either. Some companies are staying here though, and they are trying to stay in business and be competitive with the ones that outsource so we can't expect them to pay a higher wage when they are making less profit because they either don't or can't outsource overseas.

I don't see this as purposefully stepping on the downtrodden and struggling masses, I see it as a natural progression and change in the economy and production practices based on the options that are now available. Why be mad that the guys who are staying here, or who are in businesses that don't have anything to outsource when they can offer their employees more hours and overtime?

You do know that it's cheaper for them to keep everybody at 40 hours and then just hire a part time crew to come in and work the weekend? For whatever reason some of them choose not to do that. Maybe the jobs are skilled labor, or semiskilled labor and they want the quality they are used to, or maybe it's cheaper for them to just pay the little overtime because production and profit will go up with the extra day to work. I don't know. But I don't think it's some plot to get the poor guy.

If wages are dropping in lots of areas, why is it wrong to offer overtime to some of those workers to increase their paycheck? Also, I'm honestly asking what you think companies like Greyhound should do when they aren't making as much money as they did 30 years ago? Do you think they should keep paying a higher wage at the risk of bankruptcy? I'm honestly asking.


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21 Mar 2015, 3:42 am

^^^
in general, in any well-run firm, labor costs generally are not supposed to represent more than 10% of expenses. this said, [for example] increases in bus driver wages can come from some combo of lowering personnel overhead and salaries, flattening the salary hierarchy, consolidating routes, raising fares, investing in more efficient buses or retrofitting existing buses with more efficient engine management algorithms which in principal has been proven by large trucking firms which already [in Europe] have done this and raised fleet fuel economy by 25% or more, which is an economical gift that keeps on giving - fuel is the major expense here, this type of improvement is not impossible to do.



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21 Mar 2015, 5:19 am

auntblabby wrote:
^^^
in general, in any well-run firm, labor costs generally are not supposed to represent more than 10% of expenses. this said, [for example] increases in bus driver wages can come from some combo of lowering personnel overhead and salaries, flattening the salary hierarchy, consolidating routes, raising fares, investing in more efficient buses or retrofitting existing buses with more efficient engine management algorithms which in principal has been proven by large trucking firms which already [in Europe] have done this and raised fleet fuel economy by 25% or more, which is an economical gift that keeps on giving - fuel is the major expense here, this type of improvement is not impossible to do.


But when fewer and fewer people are taking bus trips, the profit margin gets smaller and smaller. No matter what you do that you listed, if more people don't start riding the bus it won't help anything.

My Aunt would only go places on the bus. She came from Fla to visit us several times and my mother always tried to get her a plane ticket but she wouldn't get on one. I don't know if the train was an option but if it was I'm sure my mother suggested it and my Aunt refused. This was my Great Aunt, my mother's father's sister. Lots of people took the bus places in the 60's and 70's but when it got cheaper to fly people started doing that. I hate to fly and I have a few times but will take a train instead if possible. A bus would make me crazy because I'm a nervous rider on the highway now. I did take a train from DC to Bham and back. It was much better than driving! I also met writer Lewis Grizzard on that train and bought him a drink because I loved his work.

Ever since I read and saw Midnight Cowboy I always think of Joe Buck when I think of somebody going on the bus. I don't think about the scene where Ratso dies though, I think about the book and him taking the bus from to NYC. I still don't see why that movie was rated X.

Anyway, a Greyhound driver whose salary was cut because people aren't going on bus rides anymore could work for a charter company. Here there are always charter buses going to the casinos in Mississippi. They have them for school field trips out of state too. Those big, nice buses. I don't know how much they make but it's probably decent. Also limo services are an option, and some might end up driving trucks which can be good money too.

I didn't think about doing all those things in the company though, like I told you economics isn't my big thing so I appreciate you explaining to me what you thought should be done.

Is Trailways still around? I remember they were Greyhound's big competitor back in the 70s.


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21 Mar 2015, 5:30 am

justkillingtime wrote:
most of them probably proudly boast of being Christian).


Where did you get that idea?



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21 Mar 2015, 5:53 am

This quote from that article sums up my reservations about this law.

As Marquette University law professor Paul Secunda explained, the idea "completely ignores the power dynamic in the workplace, where workers often have a proverbial gun to the head." Indeed, the reason Wisconsin had passed a "day of rest" law in the first place was because employers had been abusing employees by pressing them to work too many days without break.

The same article points out that businesses can apply for a waiver(to allow workers to work seven days). Those waivers were granted.

My problem is that the Republican presenting this bill is promoting it as "streamlining", when in reality it eliminates a governmental check and balance.



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21 Mar 2015, 11:46 am

starkid wrote:
justkillingtime wrote:
most of them probably proudly boast of being Christian).


Where did you get that idea?


Senator Van Wanggaard and Representative Mark Born are Lutheran. Governor Scott Walker is an Evangelical. Boasting of one's religion seems to be part of running for political office.


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21 Mar 2015, 11:56 am

justkillingtime wrote:
starkid wrote:
justkillingtime wrote:
most of them probably proudly boast of being Christian).


Where did you get that idea?


Senator Van Wanggaard and Representative Mark Born are Lutheran. Governor Scott Walker is an Evangelical. Boasting of one's religion seems to be part of running for political office.


Well, in a state like Wisconsin with a heavy German American population, I'm sure you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Lutheran. :lol:


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