ABA and Lessons from History: "Evidence based"

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But I loved rewards when I was a kid, that is what gave me a learning attitude. If I said a sound for a word, I got an M&M. I loved getting speech buck in speech therapy to trade in for prizes and I loved earning poker chips in group therapy to trade in for prizes. but the second group therapy had no reward system so I hated that class. I guess not all kids love them and to me it was all a game and I couldn't get enough of it and I wished I had more so I could earn it faster and get prizes quicker.

As far as learning new skills, better ways, broader repertoire, etc., I really like to think of it as engaging with the world, rather than merely conforming to the world.

When I was in third grade, I used to organize tag games with the other kids in this great tall grass. And in a number of times in my life, I have acted both informally and formally as a leader. To me, leadership skills are much more straightforward than the more nebulous skills of just 'hanging out,' which I'm not entirely against, but a little bit of that goes a long way.

The difficult part would have been if my parents had really pushed this. I always tried to 'excel' at whatever standards they promoted, and with social skills that could lead to some real clumsy behavior. For social skills need light touch, graciously giving space when needed, letting a medium mistake simply remain a medium mistake, and other similar zen-like skills that really take a while to wrap your mind around.

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ABA is too often mechanical, regimented, hardcore, and itself clumsy and clunky. I'll talk about this in another post.

I hated speech therapy in 6th grade because of no prizes and it was all focused on my Rs and my old speech therapist did other activities like games and give us a speech buck and she had a computer game too where we say sounds we had troubles with and hear our voice. I think it depends on the therapy and how the teacher teaches it to the child. Don't make them feel like they need to be fixed or that they are broken. I realize not all kids like rewards and having to earn them just by doing certain things but me growing up, I didn't know any different. Having to learn new things was like learning new table manners and behavior all kids have to go through. I think lot of people see it as the same as teaching autistic children and it's not just autism, other special needs kids go through it too. They just need more tools to learn than most kids do. My mom found ways to help me without making me feel like I am wrong and need fixing. There was pottery, there was swimming and gymnastics and voice lessons.

I don't think this is a black and white issue here because everyone's experience is different and so are therapies and every child. Most of mine have been positive and my speech and occupational and group therapy. No I have never been tortured or abused or sent to the Rottinburg Center or made to work all hours of the day. But as a child I always hated when speech therapy would end or any of my doctor appointments where they played games with me and I hated when occupation therapy would end and my group therapy.

I remember I would go around asking people what their names are and not understand why they wouldn't tell me because they were not following the script I was taught so sometimes I would keep on asking until they got it right. I didn't realize the social rule I was taught did not apply everywhere and not everyone is going to be friendly and give out their name. I even thought this girl's name was Why because she kept saying it when I kept asking her name and then I realized that was her name I figured out in 3rd grade her name was Amira and I felt confused because she told me it was Why. I can remember kids laughing when I called her Why. I am sure they all remembered that incident in second grade when I kept asking her name and she kept telling me Why so now I was calling her Why. I now see this as a funny story because it tells me about my weak social skills and lack of understanding and how literal I was.

No-one could be more pleased than me that you weren't assaulted. You can't validly generalise from a single case, (your own) however, as representative of anyone subjected to ABA. That is a logical fallacy. There is conclusive evidence of current and multiple examples of maltreatment by ABA practitioners that contravenes the UN convention on torture.

Me taking pottery, swimming, gymnastics was all therapy for me and doing voice lessons. I just didn't know this until my mom told me when I was in high school. I don't think we should be painting therapy or ABA with the same brush because of personal experience. I had a bad experience at a daycare when I was four so for years I thought all day cares were hell hole and a place to be abused. I have realized not all day cares are like that and it was just that one place and that one teacher I had and she wasn't very good and she only wanted normal kids in her group and not me. I also had a bad experience with a nanny but I know not all nannies are abusive and put kids in dark bathrooms or lock them in there or slap them around. It would be wrong for me to say how abusive it is to get a nanny for your kids and then post stories about things nannies have done to kids that was neglect or abuse and getting mad at anyone who thinks having a nanny is okay to have for your kids. Yes I agree that a person can mistreat a kid during therapy. I am not denying that, I am not denying there are any nannies out there that abuse kids or mistreat them during their care nor am I denying that there are day cares out there that can mistreat a child. I am just saying people can be talking about ABA or therapy for autism but not be on the same page because of personal experience. You saw a kid get beaten so it has clouded your thinking so you think people are talking about abuse and kids getting beaten when they mention ABA or therapy and talking about doing it with their kids or when they see nothing wrong with it.

I think if a therapist is mistreating a child during therapy, report them and get someone else to help you with your kid. If you have a bad feeling about that therapy they are giving your child, stop it and tell them no and if they don't listen, find another person to work with you and your kid. I had a bad school counselor in 6th grade and my therapist reported him to the state and he got fired and lost his license and can never work with kids again. Fortunately I didn't know then and I was shocked now as an adult when my mom told me he was a predator and had child pron on his PC and would make sexual comments to me. Luckily he didn't sexually abuse me. But I know not all school counselors are like this.


I don't think it's black and white because trying to say ABA or therapy is all the same is like me saying all school counselors are predators or all nannies are bad and lock kids in bathrooms and hit them around and always yelling at them or saying all daycares are bad and kids get mistreated there if the kid is different. But a bad experience can give someone a black and white view about something so they generalize and project and twist what is written and that is where I stop right there and not continue the discussion with them.

I can see why you might think that my opposition to ABA is based on the eyewitness account. That is erroneous however, my interest is as professional as personal, I have four decades of observing behaviourism at an academic level, and have intensively researched what is happening now, and the UN conventions aren't so easily dismissed either.. though this does not seem to be of any concern to you? I may be wrong there.

Wow, I feel for both of you, and I stand with both of you. I'm sorry the Lovaas guy committed violence against one student and thereby viscerally and immediately threatened every other student. And I'm sorry that school counsellor was like a shark swimming around looking to sexually abuse.

In a speech to parents, Temple Grandin said get some students and volunteers, watch what your speech therapy person does, watch what your OT does, watch what your floor time person does, and then do a whole lot more. 20 hours a week is about right. And don't try and do it all yourself or you'll drive yourself crazy.
T. Grandin: Get Students/Volunteers for 20 hours a week.
https://dev.wrongplanet.net/forums/view ... &p=5477310

So, if the ABA people don't want you to watch, that's kind of a red flag for a number of reasons.

Okay, rewarding the behavior your want seems to be a winning strategy, as long as the therapist or teacher doesn't become fanatical and try to make a religion out of the whole thing. A kid can be stubborn, esp. a kid on the spectrum can be stubborn and hold out for a long time. Might be better to take the strategy to the side so to speak. The rewards are one thing, also the intrinsic appeal of the activity, maybe what the kid is used to doing, and probably additional things as well.

There should be a distinction between ABA and IBI. IBI usually is the services provided by, who is at fault.

All ABA is, is the understanding of human behavior and its relationship to the environment and social communities.

The issue is that many ABA or IBI practicing places, are relatively new. This started in the 70s, and the understanding of autism hasn't been pushed into the behaviourism yet. It's only in the last 15-20 years has ABA been on a wide-scale. People don't know what their doing but I feel it is getting better over time. But yes, there are many places that still use abusive practices.

I work as a therapist with a good understanding of ABA, and other alternative treatments to be fair. I also specialize in cognitive psychology. I don't force eye-contact, I use the child's interests and stimulate them to learn new concepts about 'our' world. I don't really believe in using time-outs and aversives, and allow my kids to stim
in an appropriate manner. They let me know when they need a break to stim. I don't use edibles or the cheap-skate reinforcement things. I do have problems from other professionals who don't think this is right. Though I explain myself and I don't allow them to change me.

I'm dyslexic, dyscalculic, and dysgraphic. I have been through a s**t ton of problems in school. So even though I am not autistic, I understand what it is to be different and picked on by teachers and put into time-outs on a daily basis. It just makes you angrier.

It's not about saying "whats next" its about saying ABA is evidenced based. Now how can I use new evidence to support neurodiverse ideals. That's what I do. We just need to start little and go big.

What does IBI stand for?