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appletheclown
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11 Apr 2015, 12:42 pm

PhoenixFalcon wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
Executing someone is as easy as pulling the trigger.

1. buy a $300 .410 shotgun
2. buy shells at .60 cents a piece

equation for the cost of legally executing any number of people humanely and instantaneously:
(Y= total, X= people) Y=300+.6X

It is all very cheap when you do it the right way, and they feel almost no pain compared to any other method.


That's not how the death penalty works at all. There's something called "Death Row" which can take DECADES. During Death Row, the person who has been sentenced goes through a constant cycles of appeals, and has to be kept in isolation during this time. I'm no expert, but I know that it's not as simple as strapping them to a chair and putting a bullet in their skull.

I am well aware of death row, that is the reason I suggested a simpler way to do things.


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0_equals_true
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11 Apr 2015, 3:38 pm

appletheclown wrote:
I am well aware of death row, that is the reason I suggested a simpler way to do things.


I've lived in countries with this simpler system. It isn't all what it is cracked up to be. There is something called due process, and rule of law.



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11 Apr 2015, 3:45 pm

These are age old populist arguments.

If you are going to have a death penalty at all, you can't avoid all that goes with it, unless you believe in mob justice.

That is a nice idea in theory not in practice.

Sharia law has such justice system effectively, you can be stoned to death, or whatever.

The law is law of the land and all subject, it is not law of retribution. Although retribution get mentioned a lot in legal cases, very rarely is there any formal connection to this term enshrined in law. It is is a perfectly understandable feeling, but justice cannot to be based on emotion.



Last edited by 0_equals_true on 11 Apr 2015, 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

0_equals_true
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11 Apr 2015, 3:51 pm

Btw in the wild west Lawmen were Judge, Jury and Executioner. They were often criminals themselves. This was something that effectively continued some places right up to early twentieth century.



appletheclown
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12 Apr 2015, 12:03 pm

After they get sentenced to death, they should die. End of story.
Shot in the head and cremated.
It is very rare a completely innocent man/woman gets the death penalty, especially with DNA.
So I ask, why do we need to give thousands of murderers a chance to go free over the life of one innocent man, maybe none?


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Sum
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12 Apr 2015, 4:08 pm

appletheclown wrote:
After they get sentenced to death, they should die. End of story.
Shot in the head and cremated.
It is very rare a completely innocent man/woman gets the death penalty, especially with DNA.
So I ask, why do we need to give thousands of murderers a chance to go free over the life of one innocent man, maybe none?


In answer to your question my good chap, I will direct you to a timeless principle Blackstone's formulation. This principle appears in history as early as the the Hebrew Old Testament. Then repeatedly through history is voiced by men of valor such as Moses Maimonide, Sir John Fortescue, Benjamin Franklin, and John Adams.

I feel the words of John Adams best represent the ideals behind such virtues "It is more important that innocence should be protected, than it is, that guilt be punished; for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world, that all of them cannot be punished.... when innocence itself, is brought to the bar and condemned, especially to die, the subject will exclaim, 'it is immaterial to me whether I behave well or ill, for virtue itself is no security.' And if such a sentiment as this were to take hold in the mind of the subject that would be the end of all security whatsoever"

Some good reading touching on the subject is as follows: Fifth Amendment First Principles: The Self-Incrimination Clause, http://library.law.harvard.edu/justiceq ... m/south-4/, and http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/guilty.htm.

Enjoy

Oh and in regards to our dear bomber friend, I sincerely hope that he gets multiple life sentences without the possibility of parole and as an extra added bonus for all our dear terrorist friends. I hope he is confined in solitary for the duration of his life. Oh and definitely serve him lots of pork, carrion, and heck lets give him some alcohol while we are at it.

Do not get me wrong, I do not promote the desecration of his beliefs on the grounds of a hatred for such beliefs (though I do disagree with them) but simply as a form of deterrence to future terroristic acts.



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12 Apr 2015, 5:01 pm

appletheclown wrote:
After they get sentenced to death, they should die. End of story.
Shot in the head and cremated.
It is very rare a completely innocent man/woman gets the death penalty, especially with DNA.
So I ask, why do we need to give thousands of murderers a chance to go free over the life of one innocent man, maybe none?

It is actually DNA that more that often is acquitting people, and sometimes after decades in prison. Yet they haven't reviewed the cases of all those already sentenced to death in the past.

I have heard this argument load of times. It is not compelling.

Who said anything about letting going free? Strawman. if they are legally innocent they they should be free naturally.



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12 Apr 2015, 5:04 pm

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is a nasty piece of work. Inherently these people see themselves as victim or part of a victim community, but fail to see their victim as victims.

I think he is equally culpable as his brother, regardless who the ringleader was.



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12 Apr 2015, 5:13 pm

Sum wrote:
Oh and in regards to our dear bomber friend, I sincerely hope that he gets multiple life sentences without the possibility of parole and as an extra added bonus for all our dear terrorist friends. I hope he is confined in solitary for the duration of his life. Oh and definitely serve him lots of pork, carrion, and heck lets give him some alcohol while we are at it.

Do not get me wrong, I do not promote the desecration of his beliefs on the grounds of a hatred for such beliefs (though I do disagree with them) but simply as a form of deterrence to future terroristic acts.


It is not Haram to eat it if they are forced. It is not really a deterrent to these terrorists. The Salafi and Wahhabi would justify pretty much anything, in fighting the enemy. They don't care about this, in fact it is a strategy of theirs to mimic the 'Kafir' to attack them.

They way you beat them is not standing for something as illiberal as they represent.

What would really suck for them is not the giving them attention. This is something that they crave. The less attention the better.



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15 Apr 2015, 4:43 pm

He should be blown up.



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15 Apr 2015, 6:15 pm

Like most members of the human race I have had visions of personally beating him to death with a tire iron. But that doesnt mean doing that is right.

And besides: expects to be given the death penalty, and wants to be given the death penalty to complete his role as a "martyr".

So the worst thing we could do to him would be to deny him the death penalty. And force him to live for fifty years among the common criminals (the homegrown murderers, child molestors, and so forth) in the general prison population. And if we did that he might eventually come to realize that he is...just a common criminal himself, and not any kind of hero for any kind of cause.

But of course if we did put him in a prison general population it would be a death sentence. They kept Geoffry Daumier segregated from general population and it didnt work. Someone snuck into the prison laundry room where he worked and knifed him to death. Tsarnaev is even more high profile and popularly unpopular than Daumier.

So the next best thing would be life in solitary confinement. So that would be the most punishing feasible way to go.



Sum
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15 Apr 2015, 9:14 pm

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... your-mind/

I think the plethora of possible fates described here for the rest of his 60-80 years of life would be a beautiful thing.



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15 May 2015, 7:58 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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15 May 2015, 8:24 pm

Yup, saw that on the news. Really surprised a state like MA gave the death penalty. Just shows how repulsed they are by people planting bombs in public spaces.



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15 May 2015, 8:25 pm

I don't understand the death penalty. If I committed a crime I would much rather just die than spend the rest of my life in prison. Why would anyone prefer to live the rest of their life in prison? Unless they have the false hope that maybe one day they will be released.



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15 May 2015, 8:27 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Yup, saw that on the news. Really surprised a state like MA gave the death penalty. Just shows how repulsed they are by people planting bombs in public spaces.
It was a federal trial, not a state trial. Federal law allows for capital punishment, while Massachusets law does not.

In this case, I think death by stoning would be appropriate.