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beneficii
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15 Apr 2015, 12:29 pm

Looking at the OP, as well as looking at how this is in a forum specifically related to autism, it appears this thread is about the supposed, but unsupported by science, connection between vaccines and autism.

Talking about specific epidemics seems to get away from the topic of the forum this thread is posted in.

There is the Wakefield study, which was made unreproducible because it did not explain how its participants were selected. Just about all other studies, however, show no connection at all, whatsoever.


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AspieUtah
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15 Apr 2015, 12:56 pm

Jaden wrote:
...I wasn't claiming that it was an epidemic, and I plainly stated that it was an outbreak, trying to change the meaning behind my words will not make them any less true....

You were answering my question which asked "What was the most recent 'new epidemic that would infect millions [your phrase, not mine]' and how did it play out legally?" Your answer was to proffer the Disneyland measles "outbreak", not an epidemic. So, who changed the meaning of your words? Not me, certainly.

Jaden wrote:
...Only because of the amounts of people that are still vaccinated, how is that so hard for you people to understand...?

"You people"?!? Thanks! Who else do you refer to as "you people"? Jews? Blacks? Latinos? Disabled? Catholics? LGBTs? I believe that you are, indeed, in good company, my friend.

Jaden wrote:
...If you knew even the slightest thing about vaccines, you'd know they don't work 100% of the time, there is always a chance to contract the disease they're meant to prevent....

Sooo, you admit that vaccines aren't "safe and effective" like the federal government says? Cool. Neither do I!

Jaden wrote:
...You and others like you, present ideas that go against medical science, and you think that you're being criticized unfairly? :lmao:....

As I wrote, "You are, of course, free to believe what you will. I and others like me won’t denigrate others, even if others denigrate us." Thank you for proving that statement.


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Jaden
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15 Apr 2015, 1:08 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Jaden wrote:
...I wasn't claiming that it was an epidemic, and I plainly stated that it was an outbreak, trying to change the meaning behind my words will not make them any less true....

You were answering my question which asked "What was the most recent 'new epidemic that would infect millions [your phrase, not mine]' and how did it play out legally?" Your answer was to proffer the Disneyland measles "outbreak", not an epidemic. So, who changed the meaning of your words? Not me, certainly. 1

Jaden wrote:
...Only because of the amounts of people that are still vaccinated, how is that so hard for you people to understand...?

"You people"?!? Thanks! Who else do you refer to as "you people"? Jews? Blacks? Latinos? Disabled? Catholics? LGBTs? I believe that you are, indeed, in good company, my friend. 2

Jaden wrote:
...If you knew even the slightest thing about vaccines, you'd know they don't work 100% of the time, there is always a chance to contract the disease they're meant to prevent....

Sooo, you admit that vaccines aren't "safe and effective" like the federal government says? Cool. Neither do I! 3

Jaden wrote:
...You and others like you, present ideas that go against medical science, and you think that you're being criticized unfairly? :lmao:....

As I wrote, "You are, of course, free to believe what you will. I and others like me won’t denigrate others, even if others denigrate us." Thank you for proving that statement. 4


1. Actually yes, it was you who changed the meaning of what I was saying. When I mentioned the possibility of a new epidemic, as the result of prolonged lack of vaccination, you asserted to tie that to a factual, current event, not me. I was talking about the future, but you not only missed that once, but twice, even after I had explained it to you.

2. EXCUSE ME?! Who the hell do you think you are to come on here, criticize me for sticking with medical science, and then say that to me?! Get off your f**king high horse, and stop trying to paint me as something I am not! You have crossed the line here!

3. Statistically, they are safe and effective, only an idiot would deny statistical facts.

4. Yet more nonsense coming from a person who clearly has no clue about the topic at hand.


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CWA
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15 Apr 2015, 1:16 pm

AlienorAspie wrote:
Exactly, and these parents have done research that strongly indicates *to them* that there may be unreasonable side effects for some people if they get too many vaccines too young,


Research? Like in a lab? With a proper set up and statistical analysis? Oh, is that not what you meant? Ok then so these parents did their very own epidemiological studies with a team of statisticians? Oh. No? That's not what you meant by research either? OH, ok. So you mean that they read scholarly articles from well known and accepted scientific and medical journals. Oh... not that either?

So... they googled it then? That's not research.

belief does not equal fact



AspieUtah
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15 Apr 2015, 1:20 pm

CWA wrote:
...belief does not equal fact

But, beliefs should be respected, not denigrated.


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15 Apr 2015, 1:24 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
CWA wrote:
...belief does not equal fact

But, beliefs should be respected, not denigrated.

In the scientific community, belief is irrelevant, only factual data is relevant, and that factual data cannot objectively come from a bunch of people who have no degree whatsoever, in the necessary fields of study.


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AspieUtah
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15 Apr 2015, 1:30 pm

Jaden wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
CWA wrote:
...belief does not equal fact

But, beliefs should be respected, not denigrated.

In the scientific community, belief is irrelevant, only factual data is relevant, and that factual data cannot objectively come from a bunch of people who have no degree whatsoever, in the necessary fields of study.

Here on WrongPlanet.net, beliefs can be respected. In fact, the rules expect it ( http://www.wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=73836 ).


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15 Apr 2015, 1:35 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Jaden wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
CWA wrote:
...belief does not equal fact

But, beliefs should be respected, not denigrated.

In the scientific community, belief is irrelevant, only factual data is relevant, and that factual data cannot objectively come from a bunch of people who have no degree whatsoever, in the necessary fields of study.

Here on WrongPlanet.net, beliefs can be respected. In fact, the rules expect it ( http://www.wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=73836 ).

And no-one has disrespected your beliefs, merely disagreed with you. There is a difference.


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Booyakasha
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15 Apr 2015, 1:37 pm

Ok people, let's please keep it civil and less heated. Address the subject, not the posters.



epiccolton26
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15 Apr 2015, 1:41 pm

Their radical ideas were illogical from the ground up. Saying vaccines cause autism is like saying eating apples causes schizophrenia or a personality disorder of some type. There's little to no evidence to support such a claim.

:duh:

Makes me wonder why people say such things...



AspieUtah
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15 Apr 2015, 1:48 pm

epiccolton26 wrote:
Their radical ideas were illogical from the ground up. Saying vaccines cause autism is like saying eating apples causes schizophrenia or a personality disorder of some type. There's little to no evidence to support such a claim.

:duh:

Makes me wonder why people say such things....

Because, all the evidence to the contrary is not entirely dissuasive.


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15 Apr 2015, 2:19 pm

Well then. :|



beneficii
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15 Apr 2015, 2:33 pm

My understanding is that views can be attacked, but not the posters making them.


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beneficii
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15 Apr 2015, 3:02 pm

And it appears I am correct (emphasis added):

Quote:
2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.


viewtopic.php?t=73836

This is from one of the stickies at the top of this forum.


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beneficii
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15 Apr 2015, 3:30 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
epiccolton26 wrote:
Their radical ideas were illogical from the ground up. Saying vaccines cause autism is like saying eating apples causes schizophrenia or a personality disorder of some type. There's little to no evidence to support such a claim.

:duh:

Makes me wonder why people say such things....

Because, all the evidence to the contrary is not entirely dissuasive.


What evidence do you use?


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beneficii
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15 Apr 2015, 4:34 pm

Well, this page shows that Wakefield's paper has not been independently verified:

http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2011/05/ ... on-of.html


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