Why does the left feel the need to attack others all the tim

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beneficii
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14 Apr 2015, 6:33 pm

OK, looking in more detail at the problems with the Wakefield study, which was released in 1998. One, the Wakefield study's results were not repeated, even with broadly similar study designs. That suggests right there, because repetition, other researchers getting the same results as you, is very important to demonstrating a claim.

Two, there were undisclosed financial conflicts of interest. Researchers are expected to reveal potential conflicts of interest, or they are being unethical.

Three, Wakefield engaged in actual abuse of developmentally challenged children. The GMC said he showed callous disregard for the children in his study. He also conducted the study without regard to the ethics committee of the hospital he was working at.

Four, he failed to disclose how his patients were selected. In clinical studies, you must mention how your patients were selected. In meta-analyses and systematic reviews as well, you must mention the criteria you used to include and exclude the studies in your meta-analysis or systematic review.

Five, his fraudulent research led to lowering immunization rates that allowed for the comeback of measles in the USA.


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beneficii
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14 Apr 2015, 6:53 pm

Also, this Forbes article discusses how unreliable Italian courts are when it comes to science, mentioning for example that the courts convicted scientists back in 2009 for failing to predict an earthquake:

Quote:
Italian courts, provincial or otherwise, are not known for basing their rulings in science. They are, after all, part of the system that led to a manslaughter conviction of six scientists for not predicting the 2009 L’Aquila earthquake, disregarding completely the obvious fact that such predictions are not, in fact, scientifically possible. In a similar way, the Italian court that made the MMR-autism ruling–the centerpiece of this latest “courts confirm” tripe–ignored completely the science made available to it and focused almost solely on the retracted Wakefield paper and a physician with a COI in making its decision. A decision that is, by the way, under appeal.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillin ... cine-link/

Indeed, it was overturned by a Court of Appeals in Bolognia, which said that relying entirely on Wakefield's study, which has been found fraudulent but which was not replicated regardless, and ignoring the other studies was not a valid way of looking at the science, and here an Italian court is actually correct:

http://sites.uchastings.edu/lawandvacci ... or-autism/


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The_Walrus
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15 Apr 2015, 8:05 pm

Governments and courts have terrible records on science. The current position of the government of the United Kingdom is that cannabis is as dangerous as heroin.

It is not sensible to look at the actions of governments and/or government officials and/or rich people generally when deciding good policy. Celebrities and government officials follow all kinds of crazy diets for no good reason.

No, look at the science. That's unambiguous - vaccines are safe, mostly effective (the big exception being the flu vaccines, which due to the nature of the virus will always be hit and miss), and save lives. Thiomersal is safe, and regardless, mercury poisoning doesn't cause autism.



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15 Apr 2015, 8:07 pm

Hi Walrus...haven't seen you in about three weeks.

One thing to keep in mind: autism existed before most of the vaccines were developed.



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16 Apr 2015, 1:08 am

Autism existed since before vaccines. But it is known without any trace of doubt the reported cases are exploding and have been exponentially since the 90's.



polarity
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16 Apr 2015, 7:44 am

Autism cases increased because people started getting tested for autism. Vaccines have nothing to do with it.


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AspieUtah
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16 Apr 2015, 8:41 am

polarity wrote:
Autism cases increased because people started getting tested for autism. Vaccines have nothing to do with it.

Yes, that is what we are told to believe by big-pharma, big-business and big-brother's government.


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17 Apr 2015, 11:19 am

Are there really enough anti-vaxers out there to pose a threat? I think it's more a matter of some people wanting to impose thier will on others by forcing them to do things they don't want to.


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17 Apr 2015, 11:51 am

Raptor wrote:
Are there really enough anti-vaxers out there to pose a threat? I think it's more a matter of some people wanting to impose thier will on others by forcing them to do things they don't want to.

I thought you knew that the Revolutionary War was fought by just three percent of Americans, Raptor. Of course, the many parents who delayed final committee vote on California's bill to eliminate parents' ability to seek a personal-belief exemption succeeded in their actions for now, and I doubt they numbered three percent of all Californians. I agree with your supposition that the question is about whether government can impose its will against those who believe that it is a constitutional matter which needs protecting.


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beneficii
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17 Apr 2015, 12:23 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Are there really enough anti-vaxers out there to pose a threat? I think it's more a matter of some people wanting to impose thier will on others by forcing them to do things they don't want to.

I thought you knew that the Revolutionary War was fought by just three percent of Americans, Raptor. Of course, the many parents who delayed final committee vote on California's bill to eliminate parents' ability to seek a personal-belief exemption succeeded in their actions for now, and I doubt they numbered three percent of all Californians. I agree with your supposition that the question is about whether government can impose its will against those who believe that it is a constitutional matter which needs protecting.


The California bill would not have changed the way vaccinations are achieved. They simply would have removed all exemptions except for medical exemptions.

How many times do I have to say that? You guys just don't learn.


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beneficii
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17 Apr 2015, 12:28 pm

BTW, here is the text of the bill in question. This way, you guys don't have to put words into the legislators' mouths.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/15-16/bil ... duced.html


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17 Apr 2015, 12:33 pm

beneficii wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Are there really enough anti-vaxers out there to pose a threat? I think it's more a matter of some people wanting to impose thier will on others by forcing them to do things they don't want to.

I thought you knew that the Revolutionary War was fought by just three percent of Americans, Raptor. Of course, the many parents who delayed final committee vote on California's bill to eliminate parents' ability to seek a personal-belief exemption succeeded in their actions for now, and I doubt they numbered three percent of all Californians. I agree with your supposition that the question is about whether government can impose its will against those who believe that it is a constitutional matter which needs protecting.


The California bill would not have changed the way vaccinations are achieved. They simply would have removed all exemptions except for medical exemptions.

How many times do I have to say that? You guys just don't learn.


I dont know what you and AspieUtah are talking about with California, which I believe there is already a thread on that alone. I'm talking about vaxxers vs anti-vaxxers in general. The comparative very few who won't vax is too small of a number to wring one's hands over unless one is a facist control freak.


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17 Apr 2015, 12:56 pm

Raptor wrote:
I dont know what you and AspieUtah are talking about with California, which I believe there is already a thread on that alone. I'm talking about vaxxers vs anti-vaxxers in general. The comparative very few who won't vax is too small of a number to wring one's hands over unless one is a facist control freak.

I am sorry about my reference to the California legislation, Raptor. I included it as an example only. And, I agree with you completely that those of us who choose to decline forcible vaccination shouldn't upset the "herd immunity" applecart. So, where is the risk?


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beneficii
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17 Apr 2015, 10:52 pm

A pediatrician and health researcher makes a video on how vaccines do NOT cause autism:



Apparently, the Wakefield study in 1998 included only about 9 children, and they all had autism. It's clear that the study

1.) had a too small a sample size to be authoritative on anything,

2.) did not have controls, and

3.) did not demonstrate any causation.

Since it was published, 10 out of 11 of the co-authors retracted their statements that there is a connection between vaccines and autism, while only Wakefield stuck by it. Apparently, this includes Walker-Smith himself who retracted his statement, too.

Also, since 1998, a number of studies comprising over 14,000,000 children (a far, far larger sample size), which had much more sound methodology than the Wakefield study, demonstrated no connection between vaccines and autism


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18 Apr 2015, 11:10 pm

I personally consider myself to be a moderate. The main thing that bothers me about the far left is that everything has to be politically correct with them. If people publicly say things that offend someone on the left they are forced to apologize and are sometimes threatened. Maybe sometimes that happens from people on the right but it is less common.



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06 May 2015, 3:01 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
Yes of course it is the left wingers who stand outside abortion clinics, march in support of war, defend the right of police to shoot the unarmed, are the vast majority of those demanding the right to carry guns and are the most vocal in support of state sponsored murder, demand the right to teach nonsense in science classes, demand that homosexuals are not to marry :roll:

You cry that the left keeps attacking your views, in asking for live and let beliefs, the right is actually demanding that everyone conform to their version of do what you want. The left is asking that everyone take into consideration the lives and feeling of others, that if you want an abortion you should not be harrased by a mob, that if you are homosexual you should have the same rights as everyone else etc etc.

To suggest that you hardly ever see the "right doing so" rates as one of the most sheltered and naive comments I have ever seen on this sight. The right is constantly attacking a those who do not conform to their very narrow view of what "a good society should be"

Well said....