Toxic Masculinty

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@rdos & @Gauldoth:

You 2 are living in the last century....It's like you guys are from 1950s America or something! These ideas are so old fashioned and outdated it's not even funny.


Human sexual behavior is MUTABLE. Even among human females. It very much is a function of the environment and the nature+rules of the society in which they live. The assumption of evo-psych is that human psychology is fundamentally unchanged since prehistoric times which I don't believe for a moment. The environment that contemporary humans live in is so vastly different from the humans evolved in. The evolutionary pressures nowadays are extremely different and this affects what people do and what they're attracted to. Certain things are left over, but other things aren't. Women no longer *need* the men they have sex with to provide for them and now that we have contraceptives there is far less risk for women to be sexually licentious. Which explains why more women are sleeping around as much as guys are.

Yes, but WHY? Why is it so easy for even the plainest woman to find scores upon scores of willing sex partners, while most average males have to struggle to even find one? How could that possibly be unless there was a serious imbalance between the two genders' sex drives. Also, social status and prestige are what most Alpha males hold over the heads of all the average girls who flock to them and "force" them to do what they want, not sex. Sex is what they (meaning the Alpha males) want and extract from them.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that just because society is more open about sex than it used to be, that somehow that will make women enjoy sex more. Sorry, it doesn't work that way, if women think sex was painful, uncomfortable and degrading, that's not gonna change all of the sudden just because stops being a taboo subject.

Also, what planet do you live in? Because where I come from, a woman loudly proclaiming that she doesn't like sex is a surefire way to make sure that every man in the room automatically loses any interest in her (whether they're Alpha, Beta or Omega). Where have you even heard woman saying something like that? The only women who do are the ones who've already married and had kids and thus had nothing to gain by keeping up the ruse.

Depends on the virgin. I only had one really bad experience. First time, I was a virgin myself. I'm not going to go into the story except to say we'd been dating for a LONG time, and it was like--oh crap, did that really just happen??? We were pretty hot together back when things were really good, so my self-control was not what it could have been. We had some good times over the next couple of years, though. The second virgin I had was one of those dead fish types. That was the really bad one. Moving on… The third was a girl who wanted to wait for marriage…except her fiancé switched teams, which left her feeling like her life to that point had just been a waste and she just wanted to get it over with. She wasn't bad. At all. But after that, she was done with me. We're still friends, though. The 4th and final ranks fairly high among the best sex I've ever had. I'll never forget that one. She was really nervous when we started. I was gentle. And then it was a switch got hit and she started moving like a porn star. I was, like, you've never done this before? Really??? Are you sure??? She was just doing what her body told her to do, and it was GOOD. We'd been in a relationship for a few months up to that point, and things only got better after that.

My experience probably isn't reflective of a lot of experiences, but I don't think sex with virgins has to be all bad. If you're more experienced and you understand the body of the opposite sex, you can do a lot to prep virgins for the "big event." The main thing to keep in mind is a virgin partner is going to remember you as her first time and that memory will be judged by future experiences. If I'm taking a virgin, I want to be remembered for all the right reasons.

Oh…and before I forget…I've never had sex with a woman under the age of 18, and I didn't lose my virginity until 19. And one of those was with a woman who was, I think, at least 3 years older than me. The point is, if you really, REALLY want to take a virgin, they CAN be found even past college age. Take nothing for granted.

And I feel the need to clarify this point as well: While my experiences with virgins was good for the most part, I feel I should point out I wasn't going out hunting virgins for sport. It just happened to work out that way, and I don't feel that "bagging virgins" has made me any more of a man--and I'd say you're a lot LESS of a man if the only value you place in a woman is the state of her virginity. The plain fact is, no matter who you are, you only get ONE first time. With any luck, most people are going to have sex a lot more than just once. Which means odds are never in your favor to actually catch a virgin. It's much, MUCH more important to value people for who they are, as much more than their level of experience. Be open to having sex with virgins IF it happens to work out that way. Make every effort to make that first time special and satisfying for her. Just don't make that the central focus of your sex life.

No I only want to share a new experience with someone else so we both know we're on the same level. Just deflowering one girl and stay with her and have a long term relationship...

Personally, I haven't found many consistent views in this whole discussion that I actually like.

That said, 1950s America got a lot of things right, and I think what you're arguing against is a product of an idealized view of society that isn't reflective of the present day. Increased openness and permissiveness in sexuality has caused more problems than it solved. Where they goofed back in the day was act as though sexuality didn't exist, like some dirty little secret they could just sweep under the rug. The best advice I ever heard from a 1950s author was that you should make a point of reading non-fiction books about sex (Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People). I learned that before I even read Carnegie's book. I learned most everything I know from sneaking my mom's Redbook back in my early teens. She also had a large collection of trashy romance novels. I don't really read fiction anymore, but given the success of 50 Shades it might well be worth it for men to give it a serious read to see what all the fuss is about. However, I think you do better finding works by respected psychologists specializing in sex therapy (legit ones, not those who think it's ok to have sex with clients). Even back in the 1950s people could figure this stuff out.

But I digress…

I think people back in the 1950s had a better value system than we do. Put some of those principles into actual practice will, in my opinion, get you a lot more relational success in the long term. Incidentally, one of the advantages of 1950s sexual values is, with sex out of the picture, you're forced to value others as more than mere sexual creatures. The irony of more conservative practices is it protects people from objectification. Sexual freedom exposes individuals to objectification. Human nature doesn't give you the luxury of having your cake and eating it, too, and the feminist "liberation" of the female sex has not succeeded in doing this.

You have no evidence that it is. You fail to understand how NT females will only have sex if they can benefit from it in some way.



Evolutionary pressures cannot work on such a short time span as 50 years. Thus, if you see some change in sexual behavior you can be sure it is not evolution that is doing it.



Only NT women, and they only do it to gain advantages. You fail to explain why neurodiverse / Aspie women don't.

I don't get why people have sex "for sex", it should be done in a romantic way...

Your best bet, if you're serious and mature enough to understand it, is to save yourself for marriage and find someone committed to the same. I really do think that's the best way to go, and honestly I'd have preferred that myself. It's not impossible and not unheard of. But you do need to be realistic. My wife wasn't my first, nor was I hers. And we didn't always stay together, either…we both had other partners. It's just that we stayed best friends even when we were trying to stay away from each other, and after a while it just got stupid. Doesn't matter that we weren't virgins.

Look…forget about sex. Trust me on that. It's just not that important, and it only complicates things needlessly. Learn to look at women as people who are wonderful and are just as much broken human beings as any of us. Accept people for who they are where ever they are in life, no matter what their experiences. If you're just worried about being compared with past lovers, here's a hint: DON'T ASK!

I'll give you another anecdote to prove you are wrong. I've always used a different tactic with my wife: I always let her take initiative to sex, which means I'm pretty sure how her interest has changed. In the beginning, as we wanted children, we had sex fairly frequently. After we decided we didn't want any more, the frequency has gotten longer and longer. This is more or less what people told you before in the thread. Women have most interest in sex when they want to become mothers.



That's probably why so many neurodiverse women claim they have been sexually abused. These things should be illegal.

Why can't we just live in a world where everything is fair for everyone...

Dude, seriously, give it up. He WANTS to believe women like sex as much as he does, that's the only reason he's still going. He knows deep inside he's wrong, but nothing we say will make him admit it. Just point out the inconsistencies in his claims and watch him crumble.

Your probably right.

@Lazar: The next time you claim to know that a woman you have a relationship with wants as much sex as you do, just test your assertion by letting her take all the initiatives to sex (don't tell her it's a test, just stop taking the initiative). If she insists on a higher frequency than you want, then you have proved your point with that particular woman. OTOH, if you feel sexually starved if you don't pester her all the time for sex, then you know you failed to prove the point.

*sigh*

I have work to do and I have to get out of WP before it ruins my day.

Look…people, and I don't care if you're a man or a woman or anything in between, are only out for two things: Sex and money.

Sexual gratification is tied to what makes people feel valuable. It's not necessary to have sex with someone to make them feel important, but to a large extent this is what sex is and how it functions in our lives. People "have sex for sex" because the charge they get out of it, whether their own satisfaction or their ability to satisfy someone else, makes them feel important to such an extent unmatched by any other human experience. It's entirely selfish--and don't lie to yourself and pretend that it's not.

Sex is the ultimate manifestation and expression of this. It is by far not the ONLY expression, but all expressions are tied to it. Your attractiveness to others directly depends on your ability to make others feel special--and this applies to platonic same-sex friendships just as much as it does to romantic hetero relationships. Appeal to one's desire for sexual gratification (feelings of self-importance) and popularity isn't far off.

Money is the same way. It's not so much money people love. Remember, money is the root of all kinds of evil. Most people are intrinsically aware of this and hold deep suspicion and fear of those who horde obnoxious amounts of it. It's really what money buys that people are most interested in. So if you want to attract friends and mates, appeal to their desire for nice things (ask about hobbies, give people gifts of things you know they like). Be generous with your money, and if you're fortunate enough to have a lot of it, spread it around (pro tip: It will eventually come back to you).

So…the answer to your question--Because people are selfish. You're selfish. I'm selfish. My wife and kids are all selfish. There's nothing we can do about it, except understand that we each have needs that take importance above all other people and things in life. If you really love and value people, you put THOSE needs and desires ahead of your own. You think that sex should be this bigromantic thing, that people shouldn't just have sex for the sake of having sex, but that it should be meaningful. You recognize that you are an important part of it to someone else, but that you are not the MOST important part. Keep that attitude in the long-term and you'll succeed where many fail.

That does it for me, folks…lesson time is over. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

I actually did test this assertion last year and guess what? She DID initiate it quite a bit! I don't dispute the fact that autistic women really do seem to have low sex drives as do many autistic men. But libido has a biochemical basis in the brain and is responsive to hormone levels and fluctuations. This is why for the majority of women, their sex drive tends to increase during ovulation.






And what actual evidence do you have that they ONLY do it gain advantages? You make a lot of assumptions about women's motives when not only are you not a woman, but like me you are an Aspie so your intuition is somewhat limited. My father has only had 1 partner in his entire life: my mother. She was his first gf and the met in college back in 1969, married 5 years later and have been together ever since. He'd often tell me all kinds of idealistic stuff about women(that women don't really want sex, the just want "TWUE WUV") based on the only woman he's ever been with(and ever will be for that matter!). Women really aren't any less carnal than men.

I don't bother to explain why neurodiverse women don't because I really haven't known very many IRL nor have I ever shagged a woman who was diagnostically so! My first gf probably was and at first she really wanted to have sex with me. But what made her reluctant was the fact that her first boyfriend raped her and she avoided sex for 7 years before meeting me. Also, I was young and too focused on sex and didn't take the relationship srsly but iDigress.

Last edited by Lazar_Kaganovich on 26 Apr 2015, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sexual gratification is done primarily for physical and psychological stimulation. This is primary purpose of sexual gratification and why people masturbate when they don't have a sexual partner readily available and willing to do them at the moment.But as you explained in your post I quoted, having someone voluntarily provide this for you gives a person a big ego boost.


But if sex were primarily about the need to feel validated there'd be no point in masturbating when you're single and have no one to get laid with! And contrary to popular belief, women do masturbate and even as much as men do.

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Needs more dragons and s**t though...