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Cato Publius
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17 Apr 2015, 12:40 pm

Introduction: The Importance of Philosophy
Both Locke and More reduced and marginalized philosophy to something of a profession to solve the little quirks in everyday life which are not too profound; leading to the conclusion that philosophy is useless, as at its core it is to think profoundly in order to solve or better understand issues. This very notion makes philosophy useless as it restricts its scope: it essentially turns a philosopher into a doctor for society, prescribing medications, when a philosopher used to be the scientist making the medicine for the problem, while also identifying it: A philosopher used to find the problem, and attempt to solve it with rational, reflective thought.

However, in today’s liberal world, thanks to Locke, he is now a mere tool of the market, enhancing the individuals interest by solving “every day” issues instead of attacking the underlying issues which cause them. This “control” over the philosopher is a safeguard for liberalism, as without it, the political philosopher would attempt to solve the bigger issue that is liberalism; the anti-political, self interested, community corrupting ideology that it is.

This goes for any age, though liberalism is the issue needing solved today; philosophy is useful in that it is always attacking the status quo, offering a small window of knowledge showing what could possibly be better in alluding to what is currently wrong. With it being restricted to ever day issues, its value is destroyed and it becomes utterly useless.

This essay will shed light on the issues that self-interest poses, as well as other issues in today’s political universe, of which are furthered by tyrannical self-interest.



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17 Apr 2015, 4:28 pm

I see nothing wrong with philosophy.

What I get irritated about is when somebody absolutely adheres to one particular philosophy.

I believe the "truth" can be arrived at through a composite of all ideas which have been promulgated throughout history.



Cato Publius
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17 Apr 2015, 7:57 pm

I have realized since writing this that it sounds like I am attacking philosophy, as I never really say why it is useful. However I do stand by the fact that it is very useful, which is why I am sarcastic towards Locke in this introduction, as he marginalized it.



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17 Apr 2015, 8:05 pm

Are you writing for a general audience? I don't recall having learned anything about More, and I've forgotten what little I read of Locke, so you lost me at the beginning.



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17 Apr 2015, 9:59 pm

starkid wrote:
Are you writing for a general audience? I don't recall having learned anything about More, and I've forgotten what little I read of Locke, so you lost me at the beginning.


I appreciate the feedback, I haven't known how generally I should write this; is saying that they did so not enough? Not sure if I should put in quotes in where they did so or what.



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17 Apr 2015, 10:10 pm

Okay, I am addressing the issue of the common reader. I am elaborating the ideas in the main paper in a "Clarifications" section which gives quotes and references, as well as more elaboration of general ideas. Thanks for the input.



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17 Apr 2015, 10:13 pm

Cato Publius wrote:
Okay, I am addressing the issue of the common reader. I am elaborating the ideas in the main paper in a "Clarifications" section which gives quotes and references, as well as more elaboration of general ideas. Thanks for the input.


Is it just me or would it not be simpler to just state a couple of their major treatise and beliefs?



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17 Apr 2015, 10:23 pm

Sum wrote:
Cato Publius wrote:
Okay, I am addressing the issue of the common reader. I am elaborating the ideas in the main paper in a "Clarifications" section which gives quotes and references, as well as more elaboration of general ideas. Thanks for the input.


Is it just me or would it not be simpler to just state a couple of their major treatise and beliefs?


It probably would be, but I don't like disrupting the general flow of the way I write: I'd rather keep the poetic nature of my sections in-tact and explain later what is happening. Might not be what is more practical but, meh.



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17 Apr 2015, 10:32 pm

Cato Publius wrote:
Introduction: The Importance of Philosophy
Both Locke and More reduced and marginalized philosophy to something of a profession to solve the little quirks in everyday life which are not too profound; leading to the conclusion that philosophy is useless, as at its core it is to think profoundly in order to solve or better understand issues. This very notion makes philosophy useless as it restricts its scope: it essentially turns a philosopher into a doctor for society, prescribing medications, when a philosopher used to be the scientist making the medicine for the problem, while also identifying it: A philosopher used to find the problem, and attempt to solve it with rational, reflective thought.

However, in today’s liberal world, thanks to Locke, he is now a mere tool of the market, enhancing the individuals interest by solving “every day” issues instead of attacking the underlying issues which cause them. This “control” over the philosopher is a safeguard for liberalism, as without it, the political philosopher would attempt to solve the bigger issue that is liberalism; the anti-political, self interested, community corrupting ideology that it is.

This goes for any age, though liberalism is the issue needing solved today; philosophy is useful in that it is always attacking the status quo, offering a small window of knowledge showing what could possibly be better in alluding to what is currently wrong. With it being restricted to ever day issues, its value is destroyed and it becomes utterly useless.

This essay will shed light on the issues that self-interest poses, as well as other issues in today’s political universe, of which are furthered by tyrannical self-interest.


Explanations and Clarifications:

Introduction: The Importance of Philosophy

Quote:
Philosophy, according to Locke’s directive, ought to promote the “advantages and conveniences of human life”; its concern ought to be with the everday world and its ambitions satisfied by the modest improvements possible there. The increase of wealth and conveniences provided “a large field for knowledge; proper for the use and advantage of man in this world…Why should we bemoan our want of knowledge in particular apartments of the universe, when our portion here only lies in the little spot of earth where we and all our concernments are shut up?”

Sheldon Wolin on Locke.

Quote:
…when I said philosophy had no place among kings… For by bringing in other stuff that nothing appertaineth to the present matter, you must needs mar and pervert the play that is in hand, though the stuff that you bring be much better…play that as well as you can and make the best of it, and do not, therefore, disturb and bring out of order the whole matter because that another, which is merrier and better, cometh to your remembrance.


Thomas More’s Utopia addressing when and how philosophy should be used.



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09 May 2015, 7:26 pm

Cato Publius wrote:
Introduction: The Importance of Philosophy
Both Locke and More reduced and marginalized philosophy to something of a profession to solve the little quirks in everyday life which are not too profound; leading to the conclusion that philosophy is useless, as at its core it is to think profoundly in order to solve or better understand issues. This very notion makes philosophy useless as it restricts its scope: it essentially turns a philosopher into a doctor for society, prescribing medications, when a philosopher used to be the scientist making the medicine for the problem, while also identifying it: A philosopher used to find the problem, and attempt to solve it with rational, reflective thought.

However, in today’s liberal world, thanks to Locke, he is now a mere tool of the market, enhancing the individuals interest by solving “every day” issues instead of attacking the underlying issues which cause them. This “control” over the philosopher is a safeguard for liberalism, as without it, the political philosopher would attempt to solve the bigger issue that is liberalism; the anti-political, self interested, community corrupting ideology that it is.

This goes for any age, though liberalism is the issue needing solved today; philosophy is useful in that it is always attacking the status quo, offering a small window of knowledge showing what could possibly be better in alluding to what is currently wrong. With it being restricted to ever day issues, its value is destroyed and it becomes utterly useless.

This essay will shed light on the issues that self-interest poses, as well as other issues in today’s political universe, of which are furthered by tyrannical self-interest.


Where is the rest of your essay? :?



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13 May 2015, 2:29 pm

Cato, how about Foucalt?



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13 May 2015, 11:58 pm

Thank for starting this thread on the importance of philosophy, Cato Publius. Could you clarify which aspects of the ideology of liberalism you consider especially pernicious? The term is used in a number of different contexts with a number of different meanings.

I thought that Locke himself was a philosopher? It seems paradoxical to attack the very basis from which he could reason to reach the conclusion to attack philosophy in the first place.

It is good to be reminded that this forum is not for religion and politics alone, but also philosophy.


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16 May 2015, 11:33 pm

AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
Thank for starting this thread on the importance of philosophy, Cato Publius. Could you clarify which aspects of the ideology of liberalism you consider especially pernicious? The term is used in a number of different contexts with a number of different meanings.

I thought that Locke himself was a philosopher? It seems paradoxical to attack the very basis from which he could reason to reach the conclusion to attack philosophy in the first place.

It is good to be reminded that this forum is not for religion and politics alone, but also philosophy.


When talking about liberalism in this case I am talking about classical liberalism; in which the individual is the utmost importance, essentially capitalism. And to my understanding, Locke was more concerned with what modest things philosophy could improve, my stance is that philosophy can solve more profound issues than the "conveniences" of human life.

Also the essay is a work in progress, and is currently far too long to upload on a forum-type website.



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17 May 2015, 7:46 am

It doesn't have to be an either/or thing. Philosophy is scalable. :D

Back in the day (the classical period), philosophy was used as a tool by individuals, showing them how to live a good life. As you might be able to tell from my avatar, I'm quite interested in Roman Stoicism.

This philosophy is definitely concerned with the "modest concerns" of everyday life, but Stoics were also obliged to do public service and the philosophy definitely informed how they went about it.

I think a bigger threat to philosophy and the way it is perceived today has to do with how abstract and extreme it can become. Often it amounts to so much mental masturbation, and many folks discount it because they don't see it as relevant to their daily lives.


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17 May 2015, 12:53 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
It doesn't have to be an either/or thing. Philosophy is scalable. :D

Back in the day (the classical period), philosophy was used as a tool by individuals, showing them how to live a good life. As you might be able to tell from my avatar, I'm quite interested in Roman Stoicism.

This philosophy is definitely concerned with the "modest concerns" of everyday life, but Stoics were also obliged to do public service and the philosophy definitely informed how they went about it.

I think a bigger threat to philosophy and the way it is perceived today has to do with how abstract and extreme it can become. Often it amounts to so much mental masturbation, and many folks discount it because they don't see it as relevant to their daily lives.


I'll agree with that. The scope of this essay, however, is political philosophy. And, in my opinion, if since the 16th century even political philosophers themselves have said that they can only solve everyday issues, then I see an issue with that. As then no political philosopher will attempt to radically change the system, even though they may envision a better one. There are exceptions since the 16th century of course, especially if you consider the Federalist Papers as a somewhat philosophical work; but for the most part, it seems that now-a-days political philosophy just gives rise to ideologies that people live by while still living in the current system, no matter how corrupt it really is.

I am young, however, and still have much studying and learning to do over this whole, broad, area, so read what I say with that in mind, I could be misunderstanding things.



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18 May 2015, 9:50 am

Cato Publius wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
It doesn't have to be an either/or thing. Philosophy is scalable. :D

Back in the day (the classical period), philosophy was used as a tool by individuals, showing them how to live a good life. As you might be able to tell from my avatar, I'm quite interested in Roman Stoicism.

This philosophy is definitely concerned with the "modest concerns" of everyday life, but Stoics were also obliged to do public service and the philosophy definitely informed how they went about it.

I think a bigger threat to philosophy and the way it is perceived today has to do with how abstract and extreme it can become. Often it amounts to so much mental masturbation, and many folks discount it because they don't see it as relevant to their daily lives.


I'll agree with that. The scope of this essay, however, is political philosophy. And, in my opinion, if since the 16th century even political philosophers themselves have said that they can only solve everyday issues, then I see an issue with that. As then no political philosopher will attempt to radically change the system, even though they may envision a better one. There are exceptions since the 16th century of course, especially if you consider the Federalist Papers as a somewhat philosophical work; but for the most part, it seems that now-a-days political philosophy just gives rise to ideologies that people live by while still living in the current system, no matter how corrupt it really is.

I am young, however, and still have much studying and learning to do over this whole, broad, area, so read what I say with that in mind, I could be misunderstanding things.


You are humble. :D
The humble mind is by far the most effective student, it remains open, cautious, aware of the ability to self-deceive, ravenous yet patient, always self-examining, vigilant, ever hunting for the biases within.
Always remain this way, it can bestow greatness.