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Oldavid
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10 May 2015, 7:11 am

milksnake wrote:
Now would be a good time for those links to resurface...
I do not intend to re-present all the links I have provided, but have a flick through this lot. There's something for everyone interested in any area of science.

http://www.trueorigin.org/camplist.php

I do not necessarily endorse all, or any, of the material presented here; but it certainly provides incontrovertible evidence that there are many well credentialed and knowledgeable scientists who do not blindly follow the media popularised and "official", "establishment" version of "science".



kraftiekortie
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10 May 2015, 7:32 am

I have "faith" in the accuracy of Evolution in general.

I believe in the "natural selection" theorem.

Also in mutations leading to evolution/devolution.

I belive "life" arose spontaneously from a "non-life" source, rather than it being "zapped" into existence by a Supreme Being.



Oldavid
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10 May 2015, 9:01 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I have "faith" in the accuracy of Evolution in general.

I believe in the "natural selection" theorem.

Also in mutations leading to evolution/devolution.

I belive "life" arose spontaneously from a "non-life" source, rather than it being "zapped" into existence by a Supreme Being.
Yair. We know your belief system; you've said it before; it's as common as arseoles.



iBlockhead
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10 May 2015, 9:41 am

Oldavid wrote:
I do not intend to re-present all the links I have provided, but have a flick through this lot. There's something for everyone interested in any area of science.

http://www.trueorigin.org/camplist.php


Which articles do you think are the most accurate? Looking at your previous comments, any religious-based arguments would be thrown out, so my quick glance eliminates Dembski, Sarfati, anything relating to a flood, etc.



kraftiekortie
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10 May 2015, 9:46 am

Without the anal orifice, virtually all animal life wouldn't stand a chance.



GoonSquad
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10 May 2015, 9:52 am

^^^ Yep, and they'd all be full o's**t to boot!

:lol:


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Oldavid
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10 May 2015, 10:26 am

iBlockhead wrote:
Oldavid wrote:
I do not intend to re-present all the links I have provided, but have a flick through this lot. There's something for everyone interested in any area of science.

http://www.trueorigin.org/camplist.php


Which articles do you think are the most accurate? Looking at your previous comments, any religious-based arguments would be thrown out, so my quick glance eliminates Dembski, Sarfati, anything relating to a flood, etc.
Throw them all out if you like. It just means that you will never know what they had to say. Institutionalised ignorance relies on arbitrarily and summarily discarding anything that may be inconvenient to the ideology.

I wouldn't know which "are the most accurate"; not least because I've not read them all and I don't know the right answer to every question. It's proposed for your perusal and contemplation... not as a mind-trap to get you into some kind of cult. Rather the opposite; to give you a "leg up" out of the pervasive cult of Materialism. You choose.



iBlockhead
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13 May 2015, 1:58 am

Oldavid wrote:
iBlockhead wrote:
Oldavid wrote:
I do not intend to re-present all the links I have provided, but have a flick through this lot. There's something for everyone interested in any area of science.

http://www.trueorigin.org/camplist.php


Which articles do you think are the most accurate? Looking at your previous comments, any religious-based arguments would be thrown out, so my quick glance eliminates Dembski, Sarfati, anything relating to a flood, etc.


Throw them all out if you like. It just means that you will never know what they had to say. Institutionalised ignorance relies on arbitrarily and summarily discarding anything that may be inconvenient to the ideology.

I wouldn't know which "are the most accurate"; not least because I've not read them all and I don't know the right answer to every question. It's proposed for your perusal and contemplation... not as a mind-trap to get you into some kind of cult. Rather the opposite; to give you a "leg up" out of the pervasive cult of Materialism. You choose.


Which ones on this list of over 1,300 articles have you read?

It is amusing to me that if I use the criterion you want (throwing out any religious-tinged drivel based on Abrahamic religions), I am a part of "institutionalised ignorance" and "the cult of Materialism," which are really nothing more than ID strawmen.



milksnake
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13 May 2015, 2:19 am

I've always considered Religion to be a form of 'institutionalized ignorance'



Tollorin
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13 May 2015, 5:46 pm

Oldavid
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14 May 2015, 7:34 am

You bods need to define what you mean by "religion". Materialism is a religion, and it is unsubstantiated by any observations... empirical or otherwise.



Oldavid
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14 May 2015, 7:54 am

Tollorin wrote:
Which presupposes an intelligently contrived order. What use is an enormously long proboscis without an enormously deep flower? What use is an enormously deep flower without an enormously long proboscis to probe it?

Materialists blow their own legs off with their own canon.

I suppose that some clever-dick will get a sizeable government grant to produce a fantastic tome showing that wheels on proboscises are "evolutionarily" unnecessary.



Oldavid
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14 May 2015, 8:23 am

iBlockhead wrote:
Which ones on this list of over 1,300 articles have you read?
It is amusing to me that if I use the criterion you want (throwing out any religious-tinged drivel based on Abrahamic religions), I am a part of "institutionalised ignorance" and "the cult of Materialism," which are really nothing more than ID strawmen.
It doesn't matter which I've read. You read the ones that interest you and if you don't like what they say you take it up with the author of the article. Institutionalised ignorance says that you will not and cannot.

The main "religious-tinged drivel" that I abhor is the "ram-it-down-your-throat-without-any justification" Materialism that is always and everywhere in the popular media and classrooms.

Take your "evolutionarily superior" wheels and roll around fantasy-land.



iBlockhead
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18 May 2015, 1:31 pm

Oldavid wrote:
iBlockhead wrote:
Which ones on this list of over 1,300 articles have you read?
It is amusing to me that if I use the criterion you want (throwing out any religious-tinged drivel based on Abrahamic religions), I am a part of "institutionalised ignorance" and "the cult of Materialism," which are really nothing more than ID strawmen.
It doesn't matter which I've read. You read the ones that interest you and if you don't like what they say you take it up with the author of the article. Institutionalised ignorance says that you will not and cannot.

The main "religious-tinged drivel" that I abhor is the "ram-it-down-your-throat-without-any justification" Materialism that is always and everywhere in the popular media and classrooms.

Take your "evolutionarily superior" wheels and roll around fantasy-land.


No, it does matter. This website explicitly claims it supports the Genesis account of creationism in at least one of the articles. If you want to try to state on other threads about how intellectually superior you are to everyone else here, don't link a random site you never read which actually disputes the foundation of everything you said. Of course, the last major ID proponent on WP said, when shown the Wedge Document, that lying to get a certain objective is perfectly OK (it is what the Wedge Document basically is - a plan to ease ID in so it supplants at a later time the more complicated collection of facts which best fit the observations/experiments/etc.), so it wouldn't be a surprise to me if your posts are just facades to promote ID.

So, which ones on your link which you supplied did you read, or have read on other websites?



The_Walrus
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18 May 2015, 2:41 pm

Oldavid wrote:
You bods need to define what you mean by "religion". Materialism is a religion, and it is unsubstantiated by any observations... empirical or otherwise.

I like Durkheim's definition: "a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things". Materialism is not a religion by that definition or any other worthwhile one.

Materialism is not substantiated by any observations, but it also isn't invalidated by any. In other words, there's no reason to reject the null hypothesis.



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18 May 2015, 2:47 pm

Oldavid wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
Which presupposes an intelligently contrived order. What use is an enormously long proboscis without an enormously deep flower? What use is an enormously deep flower without an enormously long proboscis to probe it?

As always, these things evolve slowly over time.

There will always be natural variation in flower depths and proboscis lengths. The animal with the shorter proboscis cannot reach the nectar in the deeper flowers. Those with longer proboscises find that they don't have to share the nectar in the deeper flowers with as many others, so they specialise on these ones. This creates two niches were before there was only one. We soon have a "long proboscis" population of insects and a "deep flower" population of plants. Again, there's natural variation within both those populations, and the process repeats itself.