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AspieOtaku
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23 May 2015, 10:25 pm

It seems like they are and regardless of the proof of evolution shown before them as well as actual geologic evidence as well as modern scientific dating methods presented to them they deny it even though its true!


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Kraichgauer
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23 May 2015, 11:01 pm

I think they are stupid by choice. I know some people who are very intelligent individuals, but who reject evolution and a geologically old earth because they believe their Christian faith in incumbent on a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation account.


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Cyllya1
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23 May 2015, 11:33 pm

Evolution doesn't contridict creationism (one of the first few verses of Genesis even mention the animals of the land and sky coming from the sea) and since we're talking about God creating the universe, the belief that the world was created 10,000 years ago doesn't even really contridict that it's billions of years old (I mean, God made Adam on the sixth day, even though it normally takes at least nine months to make a human... yet I've never seen anyone argue against the existance of pregnancy).

So I wouldn't think someone's stupid just because they believe the world was created by God 10,000 ago (or some some other number of years). But if they use that belief to deny evolution, geology, and other science, I think that's pretty stupid. It's not even really a religious belief but some weird cultural thing where they care way too much about what their parents or the local pastor says about these things.


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AspieOtaku
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24 May 2015, 12:33 am

Cyllya1 wrote:
Evolution doesn't contridict creationism (one of the first few verses of Genesis even mention the animals of the land and sky coming from the sea) and since we're talking about God creating the universe, the belief that the world was created 10,000 years ago doesn't even really contridict that it's billions of years old (I mean, God made Adam on the sixth day, even though it normally takes at least nine months to make a human... yet I've never seen anyone argue against the existance of pregnancy).

So I wouldn't think someone's stupid just because they believe the world was created by God 10,000 ago (or some some other number of years). But if they use that belief to deny evolution, geology, and other science, I think that's pretty stupid. It's not even really a religious belief but some weird cultural thing where they care way too much about what their parents or the local pastor says about these things.
Yet there are living organisms more than 10000 years old! More proof that the world is by far older than 10000 years old! It is in fact over 4.5 billion years old!There are fossils of micro organismsto be 3 billion years old via potassium argon dating and not carbon dating so the carbon dating excuse is pathetic!


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24 May 2015, 1:40 am

Well it depends upon the person. Some are incredibly stupid and cannot understand basic science so genesis is the best they can grasp. Others simply refuse to learn about evolution because they have been told it is wrong - these are what i would call willfully ignorant. Then we have the likes of AngelRho, Keet and Oldavid , who are quite clearly intelligent. These I suspect are suffering from a form of cognitive dissonance. No matter the evidence they will never accept it, preferring instead to believe there has been an ongoing deliberate conspiracy - by millions of researchers for over 200 years - to defraud humanity of the Truth of gods glory.

One thing David has shown me, it is absolutely pointless providing these people with the physical, mathematical or chemical data which proves them wrong. They simply will never accept it, nor will they ever produce anything substantive to back up their claims. In all my time on these types of forums I have never seen someone whose arguments have been so thoroughly rebutted as Davids, and yet it is as if nothing had been said, he provides absolutely no clear evidence to support his arguments and yet carries on as if he is the bearer of some great truth. One has to wonder if this is some form of cognitive dissonance or a deeper form of delusion, most certainly it is not stupidity or ignorance.

Here is a greatexample of cognitivedissonance

Kurt Wise:

Quote:
I took a newly purchased Bible and a pair of scissors and set to work. Beginning at Genesis 1:1, I determined to cut out every verse in the Bible which would have to be taken out to believe in evolution. Wanting this to be as fair as possible, and giving the benefit of the doubt to evolution, I determined to read all the verses on both sides of a page and cut out every other verse, being careful not to cut the margin of the page, but to poke the page in the midst of the verse and cut the verse out around that.

In this fashion, night after night, for weeks and months, I set about the task of systematically going through the entire Bible from cover to cover. Although the end of the matter seemed obvious pretty early on, I persevered. I continued for two reasons. First, I am obsessive compulsive. Second, I dreaded the impending end. As much as my life was wrapped up in nature at age eight and in science in eighth grade, it was even more wrapped up in science and nature at this point in my life. All that I loved to do was involved with some aspect of science. At the same time, evolution was part of that science and many times was taught as an indispensable part of science. That is exactly what I thought—that science couldn’t be without evolution. For me to reject evolution would be for me to reject all of science and to reject everything I loved and dreamed of doing.

The day came when I took the scissors to the very last verse—nearly the very last verse of the Bible. It was Revelation 22:19: “If any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” It was with trembling hands that I cut out this verse, I can assure you! With the task complete, I was now forced to make the decision I had dreaded for so long.

With the cover of the Bible taken off, I attempted to physically lift the Bible from the bed between two fingers. Yet, try as I might, and even with the benefit of intact margins throughout the pages of Scripture, I found it impossible to pick up the Bible without it being rent in two. I had to make a decision between evolution and Scripture. Either the Scripture was true and evolution was wrong or evolution was true and I must toss out the Bible. However, at that moment I thought back to seven or so years before when a Bible was pushed to a position in front of me and I had come to know Jesus Christ. I had in those years come to know Him. I had become familiar with His love and His concern for me. He had become a real friend to me. He was the reason I was even alive both physically and spiritually. I could not reject Him. Yet, I had come to know Him through His Word. I could not reject that either. It was there that night that I accepted the Word of God and rejected all that would ever counter it, including evolution. With that, in great sorrow, I tossed into the fire all my dreams and hopes in science.............................I am a young-age creationist because that is my understanding of the Scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turned against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the Word of God seems to indicate.


Kurt Wise was a promising geologist who studied under Stephen J Gould and is now Director of Creation Research Center at Truett-McConnell College. He has a PhD in geology from Harvard University.


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DentArthurDent
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24 May 2015, 2:12 am

as an addendum to the above. Kurt Wise is someone who is able to accept the scientific knowledge and evidence as shown (even though he does say "Although there are scientific reasons for accepting a young earth") He understands the data well enough to get his PHD, yet as he states no amount of evidence will persuade him that scripture is wrong.

So clearly stupidity is not a pre-requisite for a belief in creationism. I suspect one day we will understand the nature of delusion far better than we do today and there may yet be a cure for this disorder.


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AspieOtaku
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24 May 2015, 3:48 am

Oldavid seems to be one of them!


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24 May 2015, 2:48 pm

Short answer, yes.



Fnord
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24 May 2015, 4:42 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
Are Young Earth Creationist Stupid?
Yes.

Next question, please?



auntblabby
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27 May 2015, 3:39 am

I wonder how many young earth creationists also believe in a flat geocentric earth?



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27 May 2015, 5:49 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
Well it depends upon the person. Some are incredibly stupid and cannot understand basic science so genesis is the best they can grasp. Others simply refuse to learn about evolution because they have been told it is wrong - these are what i would call willfully ignorant. Then we have the likes of AngelRho, Keet and Oldavid , who are quite clearly intelligent. These I suspect are suffering from a form of cognitive dissonance. No matter the evidence they will never accept it, preferring instead to believe there has been an ongoing deliberate conspiracy - by millions of researchers for over 200 years - to defraud humanity of the Truth of gods glory.

One thing David has shown me, it is absolutely pointless providing these people with the physical, mathematical or chemical data which proves them wrong. They simply will never accept it, nor will they ever produce anything substantive to back up their claims. In all my time on these types of forums I have never seen someone whose arguments have been so thoroughly rebutted as Davids, and yet it is as if nothing had been said, he provides absolutely no clear evidence to support his arguments and yet carries on as if he is the bearer of some great truth. One has to wonder if this is some form of cognitive dissonance or a deeper form of delusion, most certainly it is not stupidity or ignorance.


I agree. Ignoring that some have PhDs or ignoring how well composed AngelRho's posts are is just as much discounting the evidence as them ignoring fossils. The human brain is so adept at walling off some types of information that this tendency must be actually struggled against. Kurt Wise clearly isn't stupid. But Kurt Wise has also walled off information in his own brain all the while lucidly describing this walling-off process.



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27 May 2015, 6:46 am

The human mind, in its complexity, is capable of truly believing two or more mutually exclusive ideas. We see this all the time in psychology, and it's certainly not confined to belief in creationism versus science. Nor is it confined to stupid people at all. Most of us who are reading this hold some kind of mutually exclusive beliefs on some subject without even realizing it.

Often people with mutually exclusive beliefs don't realize they are incompatible with one another until it's pointed out to them. When it's pointed out to them, they will usually 1. get very angry and deny everything, 2. refuse to think about it or be incapable of thinking about it rationally, and 3. act surprised and upset as this revelation shakes their paradigm.



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27 May 2015, 7:20 am

No.


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27 May 2015, 8:02 am

[MODERATOR]

Please don't call-out individual members of this forum as being "stupid."

Thanks.

[/MODERATOR]


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27 May 2015, 8:40 am

I don't believe in what they believe. I don't believe in how they arrived at that conclusion.

Nevertheless, some people who believe in the above are decent people. It's the idea, not the person whom I don't believe in.



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28 May 2015, 5:55 am

There are plenty of very intelligent young-earth creationists.

You think that because current science points to an old earth that the science MUST BE correct, and nothing in the future will ever prove that the current science is wrong.

How easily people forget that not too long ago, according to "current science" we had no explanation of how things like sound and light worked. The waves used to be invisible because we had no means of measuring them. How do you KNOW that there are not things in existence that would prove a young earth, but we are AS YET unable to perceive or measure them?

People who believe in a young earth creation have had some kind of experience, usually spiritual in nature, that convinces them that this is correct, despite what current science says. To them, the spiritual experience supersedes the scientific evidence. That is not the same as ignoring or denying the existing scientific evidence. It is just not accepting it.

One could say that those who are calling young earth creationists "stupid" are also rejecting evidence - evidence of a spiritual nature. They say that those spiritual encounters don't exist or are imaginary because they themselves either have not experienced them or have denied them, and because they are not "measurable." (By the way, LOTS of things exist that are not measurable.)

Someone is right, and someone is wrong. But who's to know who is who? People who believe in evolution think they have all the proof they need. People who believe in a young earth believe proof is yet to come. But that doesn't make either group STUPID.

No one has explained to me yet how all the chemicals knew how to put themselves together in the right proportions to make life. How did the chemicals know how to arrange themselves into DNA? How about water? Why didn't all the hydrogen and oxygen just stay in HO formulation? Where did energy come from? And mathematics had to be in existence, too, for chemicals even to come together in proportion. Where did the laws of math come from? Also, no one has yet explained to me where plants come from. I hear about the changes in animal species, but what about plants? Why do they have a different cell wall structure? How did they figure that out? Where did wind come from?

I am a thinking, intelligent person. I have questions about the claims of evolution. Evolution, in my mind, has not been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt, just as others do not believe that the existence of God has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. I am not STUPID.