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nerdygirl
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01 Jun 2015, 10:26 am

Janissy wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
But does not evolution require some firsts of a species? How did the firsts survive to reproduce? The previous development does not say "oh, whoops, that new development didn't work out, try again." Evolution is not directed, so how can the "right" developments be known ahead of time?


The scaffolding starts with bacteria and they don't eat other bacteria- they eat molecules.


You are still not explaining how the first, extremely vulnerable human beings survived!



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01 Jun 2015, 10:31 am

nerdygirl wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As far as holding to an allegedly "harmless world view" - it's questionable about just how harmless that view is, as it's proponents wish to have notions of a young earth, complete without evolution, taught in our public school systems. This is at a time when America risks falling far behind the rest of the industrialized world, particularly in the sciences. We've seen what has happened to societies in the Middle East that have chosen to publicly follow a literal interpretation of Islam. Am I saying that a Christian fundamentalist America could lapse into the fanatical bloodshed of the Islamic world? Absolutely not. But our country could just as easily fall irreparably back into a world of superstition and ignorance that comes naturally with any form of fundamentalism, Christian, Muslim, or any other.


This, Kraichgauer...

Not all proponents of a young earth are trying to set up a theocracy of sorts...

But to call them dangerous is even worse than calling them stupid!

I personally don't think ORIGINS of any kind should be taught in a public school, esp. in K-12. College is a different situation. Study of origins is not necessary for understanding non-specialized science (ie. pre-college level.)


Yes, I agree, not all young earthers are trying to set up a theocracy, and I hardly meant that they all were (forgive me for the misunderstanding). But the fact remains, the likes of Pat Robertson, Franklin Graham, Mike Huckabee, and all the other religious hucksters who doubtlessly would welcome a theocracy with open arms, are also young earthers.


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nerdygirl
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01 Jun 2015, 10:33 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As far as holding to an allegedly "harmless world view" - it's questionable about just how harmless that view is, as it's proponents wish to have notions of a young earth, complete without evolution, taught in our public school systems. This is at a time when America risks falling far behind the rest of the industrialized world, particularly in the sciences. We've seen what has happened to societies in the Middle East that have chosen to publicly follow a literal interpretation of Islam. Am I saying that a Christian fundamentalist America could lapse into the fanatical bloodshed of the Islamic world? Absolutely not. But our country could just as easily fall irreparably back into a world of superstition and ignorance that comes naturally with any form of fundamentalism, Christian, Muslim, or any other.


This, Kraichgauer...

Not all proponents of a young earth are trying to set up a theocracy of sorts...

But to call them dangerous is even worse than calling them stupid!

I personally don't think ORIGINS of any kind should be taught in a public school, esp. in K-12. College is a different situation. Study of origins is not necessary for understanding non-specialized science (ie. pre-college level.)


Yes, I agree, not all young earthers are trying to set up a theocracy, and I hardly meant that they all were (forgive me for the misunderstanding). But the fact remains, the likes of Pat Robertson, Franklin Graham, Mike Huckabee, and all the other religious hucksters who doubtlessly would welcome a theocracy with open arms, are also young earthers.


Not going to disagree there...

I just can't stand being put in a box with the likes of many of these... I am a conservative Christian, but I do NOT fit the stereotype!



Kraichgauer
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01 Jun 2015, 10:40 am

nerdygirl wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As far as holding to an allegedly "harmless world view" - it's questionable about just how harmless that view is, as it's proponents wish to have notions of a young earth, complete without evolution, taught in our public school systems. This is at a time when America risks falling far behind the rest of the industrialized world, particularly in the sciences. We've seen what has happened to societies in the Middle East that have chosen to publicly follow a literal interpretation of Islam. Am I saying that a Christian fundamentalist America could lapse into the fanatical bloodshed of the Islamic world? Absolutely not. But our country could just as easily fall irreparably back into a world of superstition and ignorance that comes naturally with any form of fundamentalism, Christian, Muslim, or any other.


This, Kraichgauer...

Not all proponents of a young earth are trying to set up a theocracy of sorts...

But to call them dangerous is even worse than calling them stupid!

I personally don't think ORIGINS of any kind should be taught in a public school, esp. in K-12. College is a different situation. Study of origins is not necessary for understanding non-specialized science (ie. pre-college level.)


Yes, I agree, not all young earthers are trying to set up a theocracy, and I hardly meant that they all were (forgive me for the misunderstanding). But the fact remains, the likes of Pat Robertson, Franklin Graham, Mike Huckabee, and all the other religious hucksters who doubtlessly would welcome a theocracy with open arms, are also young earthers.


Not going to disagree there...

I just can't stand being put in a box with the likes of many of these... I am a conservative Christian, but I do NOT fit the stereotype!


I never thought you were.


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01 Jun 2015, 10:42 am

nerdygirl wrote:
...I am a conservative Christian, but I do NOT fit the stereotype!

I amn't a conservative Christian, but I do seem to fit the stereotype in some ways (red-letter Christian, gun owning, constitutionalist libertarian). They balance my other stereotype (gay, (d)emocratic Jeffersonian, pro-marriage equality). It makes me giggle to see the smoke coming out of the ears of people who discover these apparently conflicting beliefs. Hehe. :lol:


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01 Jun 2015, 11:00 am

You want me to condense everything I learned in all my college science courses down to a few sentences? 8O That is a tall order. I will try, but it will be woefully incomplete.

nerdygirl wrote:
While the question of origin is different from evolution, the discussion goes hand-in-hand. If there was no "first cause" to the universe, explain how chemicals joined up together in the proper amounts without causing the earth to blow itself up before it began.


The earth apparently is actually the fallout from an explosion about 5 billion years ago (the Big Bang being about 13-14 billion years ago). A star exploded>gas and dust flew around from that>the bits started clumping together>a lump became hot and dense enough to generate its own energy, becoming our sun>others bits and pieces clumped together settling into an orbit around this sun, planets, including earth (about 4.6 billion years ago).

Quote:
Explain how the atmosphere has *just the right amount* of various gasses for life,

The size of earth gives it a gravitational force that lets gases be trapped and create an atmosphere rather than floating back out into space.
Quote:
how the earth is *just the right distance* from the sun to sustain life, how the earth spins on its axis at *just the right* speed.

The law of very large numbers- the very large numbers being the number of planets in existence where these conditions don't hold. Yes, we have just the right conditions and so there is life (Earth is dubbed The Goldilocks Planet because of this) but that is no weirder than Mercury being just the right distance from the sun to be boilingly hot.
Quote:
Explain where energy came from to cause the various chemical reactions.

For us? The sun.

Quote:
Explain where mathematics and the concepts of numbers came from, so that the "right amount" can even possibly exist.

I have no idea. That does not mean 'therefore God'.
Quote:
Explain how the first cell developed, how chemicals just "knew" how to come together to make protein chains and form DNA. Explain how the first life form had a cell wall that protected it.


Theories abound. A plausible one for me is macromolecules>self replicating RNA>self replicating RNA in a phospholipid membrane. It's quite a leap from macromolecules to self replicating RNA and ">" doesn't explain it. I suppose nothing will stop you from filling that gap with God but I'd rather follow the research.

Quote:
Chemicals do not just roam around.

except when they do chemicals roaming around
Quote:
Even if you say the energy came from the sun, where did the sun get it's energy?


hydrogen and helium clumped together by gravity which eventually became a hot and dense enough clump to jumpstart the hydrogen fusion

Quote:
How did individual chemicals form?

the universe cooled enough for protons and neutrons to combine
Quote:
Explain the development of isotropes.
[/quote][/quote]

Did you mean isotopes?

nuclear fusion>new elements and neutrons>once you have neutrons you can also have isotopes

Now I need a nap. Or a beer.

Science is willing to say..."I don't know how that happened, let's see if we can figure it out". Religion says "I know exactly how that happened- God(s). And if you can't prove otherwise, I must be right".



Janissy
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01 Jun 2015, 11:05 am

nerdygirl wrote:
Janissy wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
But does not evolution require some firsts of a species? How did the firsts survive to reproduce? The previous development does not say "oh, whoops, that new development didn't work out, try again." Evolution is not directed, so how can the "right" developments be known ahead of time?


The scaffolding starts with bacteria and they don't eat other bacteria- they eat molecules.


You are still not explaining how the first, extremely vulnerable human beings survived!


Not in this post, in the prior one. There is a balance between predators and prey. Predators, with the exception of humans, do not kill all members of the species they prey on. Humans are the only apparent exception to that. We are the only ones that have hunted species to extinction.

It's only in the bible that humans just pop into existence with no parent to protect them.



naturalplastic
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01 Jun 2015, 11:20 am

nerdygirl wrote:
Janissy wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
But does not evolution require some firsts of a species? How did the firsts survive to reproduce? The previous development does not say "oh, whoops, that new development didn't work out, try again." Evolution is not directed, so how can the "right" developments be known ahead of time?


The scaffolding starts with bacteria and they don't eat other bacteria- they eat molecules.


You are still not explaining how the first, extremely vulnerable human beings survived!


Precisely BECAUSE we evolved, and were not always like we are now.

Neanderthals were more powerfully muscled than anatomically modern humans (us- even when we lived in caves).

But even Neanderthals were four eyed wimps compared to earlier hominids. A modern chimpanzee is ten times as strong as a modern adult human male.

One word:fire. At some point hominids over came the universal land mammal instinct to fear fire, and then exploited that to keep predators at bay.

When our ancestors branched off from the chimps we gradually became increasingly dependent on tools, and on teamwork, and progressively less dependant upon individual brute strength as time went on. And further as time went on and brute strength became redundant brute strength even became selected against (it takes calories to maintain muscle, if brain power is a better investment you ditch the muscle and thick bone because you will be able support a bigger population with out the baggage- which will further advance the cause of you overwhelming rival hominids).

If anything your argument disproves instantaneous Creationism because Creationism implies that all species appeared suddenly, and completely in their present form. If that had happened to us (appeared as living organisms out of the blue one day, but before we had had time to invent even simple technology) then we WOULD have been wiped out. But if we had evolved gradually over time from chimp-like ancestors then we would have had millions of years to tame fire, and to invent crude weapons and foraging tools to compensate for our gradually diminished physical brawn.



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01 Jun 2015, 11:26 am

nerdygirl wrote:
If there is a God, he could create the world anyway He wished. I suppose it could have been over billions of years, though I believe that contradicts the Genesis account. I suppose that a "day" could be longer than 24 hours, even though the Genesis account clearly states that "evening and morning" make one day. I suppose that the Genesis account could be poetic.

I personally do not think that the young/old earth controversy is a hill to die on. I hold to my beliefs (call me stupid if you will), but I don't think someone is not a Christian if they believe the earth is old. I also am NOT one who thinks that only a 6-day creation should be taught in school, if at all. So, definitely do NOT call me dangerous! (Great way to throw other Christians under the bus, BTW, Kraichgauer.)

I think Creation (whether relatively recent or long ago) is a miracle, something outside the normal happenings of the natural world, just like the virgin birth or resurrection.

I completely understand that origin science and evolution are *different*. However, they go hand in hand. If one is talking about how natural processes bring about such changes in animals where one can gradually change from one thing into another, it is not a far stretch to wonder how chemicals found each other in the exact right proportions to allow these changes to take place.

Evolution requires that the earth has always operated as it has now. We just don't know *for sure* that it did. I've heard some pretty compelling arguments about how processes would be sped up and lives would be longer given an increase in oxygen levels in the atmosphere. Faster processes would allow for a younger earth. A worldwide flood could also cause many of the geological evidence that most assume reveals an old earth. But, if one throws out the idea of a worldwide flood then they leave only one explanation for the evidence.

I have a lot of questions that make me "distrust" the theory of evolution. This doesn't make me stupid.

My biggest one is: how did humans come to dominate other animals? We take the longest time of all animals to reach maturity, and compared to many animals, we are extremely vulnerable. How did we develop minds of reason before we were wiped out by predators?

Not stupid. A skeptic.

If you are calling me stupid for not believing what you believe, it's not on *me* to prove my beliefs and provide evidence. It's up to YOU to prove to me that you are correct. You don't say "Hey, you're stupid, prove to me you're right." You say, "Hey, you're stupid, I'm going to show you why." If I don't think you've proven your argument well enough, sorry.

What I *really, really, really* do not get is how a whole bunch of people on a forum like WP who have all been dismissed in the larger world, being called stupid for not getting all kinds of stuff, like social interaction, are so easily able to turn around and call other people stupid because they don't get something you think is obvious. Unreal.


Science, by way of Simon Baron Cohen, et al; shows that in general, Autism, is a deficit in human empathy; both cognitive and affective as a spectrum of difficulties; Yes, an imbalance of human mind and body in balance per systemizing machine cognition verses soul, heart, and spirit of HUMAN FEELINGS AND FEELINGS EXPRESSING, as cognitive and
affective empathy with other human beings to achieve
social cooperation for the best chance of survival,
for the social animal human being is;

However, Autism is just a set of observable behavioral deficits as assessed by DSM5 Criteria, associated with difficulties with Reciprocal Social Communication in non-verbal language deficits; sharing interests and accomplishments and reciprocating same; as well as Restrictive and Repetitive behavior, including difficulties with sensory Integration as a variable of that; although not a requirement for diagnosis
per sensory integration difficulties
assessed through behavior, as well.

So, it is true that there are some Autistic folks who have extremely high levels of both cognitive and affective empathy assessed as such; yes, like me, by professionals who still 'rate' behavior as Autistic when folks go on and on about their special interests in intense focus; sometimes to the point
where they do not recognize folks in their environment
are sick and tired of hearing about it, etc., etc. etc. etc...

However, it is often the same dopamine associated focus
that is also related to extreme emotions and
affective empathy, AND CREATIVITY
so the two most definitely CAN go
'hand in hand'.

Autism is 'only' an abstract concept defined by members of the American Psychological Association APA, in the USA.

There are genetic causal factors limited to the more severely impacted, like Fragile X Syndrome, as direct causal factors of the condition of Autism Spectrum Disorder. But that is still about 5 percent of assessed folks with Autism, per previous diagnostic analysis, where only 11 percent are diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome; yes, it is substantial numbers.

There is no 'One Autism'; and never will be, as it is an abstract concept of shared behavioral deficits with unlimited potentials of genetic and environmental issues associated as potential causal factors.

But anyway; personal attacks are most definitely a barometer
of folks who do have deficits in cognitive and affective empathy.

For the human archetype of 'empath';
personally attacking someone else
is no less than personally
attacking oneself.

And true 'empaths' care equally for both self and others
as worthwhile and worth not personally attacking.

And of course the Internet and faceless anonymous avatars are a 'perfect' breeding ground for 'weak' folks with little self-esteem to bully others, as they have likely been bullied by others; and to get away with it; without getting their butts whipped like what might happen in real life, rough, and tumble reality,
for true cowardice that is transparent as hell;
for folks who are 'bigger' than that
in terms of EMPATHY.

The greatest 'stupidity' is lack of human affective and cognitive empathy; and that evolved attribute of human being and all of the social cooperation that leads to abstract written language, collective intelligence, as well as complex culture and the byproducts of culture that are tools that do make life more comfortable, safe, and secure; AND are precisely the human evolving CULTURAL attributes that allow a pale skin
flabby baby that cannot hold its BIG HEAD UP
on its own, by a village of social
cooperation to raise a
defenseless WEAK child
like this.

And yes; the true devolution of humankind is just this;

The loss of the village and humanity truly becoming a Zombie Apocalypse
of creatures losing both cognitive and affective empathy that certainly is NOT
an issue JUST associated with Autism, as research shows that in the last several
decades that empirical measures of human empathy are decreasing to the tune
of about 30% in several decades; as the 'Zombie Apocalypse' and 'Terminator
Series' of cold hearted machine-like Robot Humans becomes not just
fiction but cold hard hearTed objective reality,
without a soul of mindful body
and mind awareness in balance; a fully
emotionally nuanced heArt; AND or a fully
expressing spirit in
both affective
and
cognitive
empathy
IS the devolution of
human being through
the guise of mechanical
oriented cognition of cultural
illusion of human hell come truth;
in Just one life-time through the processes
of both NEGATIVE Epigenetics and Neuroplasticity.

My real deficits of so-called abstract concept 'Autism',
in functional disability, in social communication, is almost
entirely culturally produced, as my diagnosing professionals
agree; now that I for one have found the answers for my own
cure in mind and body balance out of the cultural induced trap
that is Autism, in at least my case. But yeah, "RRB's" for me live on..;)

But an all encompassing special interest in strength training, creative
dance in a style of martial arts and ballet; as well as free verse poetry
is a perfect way to share with others, and reciprocally communicate
as such; to a much greater extent than almost any other so-called
Neurotypical can do.

Kind Autistics Taking in Everything Mindful in
Awareness, KATiE MIA; (:@@@:) Autistic Love; And the Science
of Kindology, An Ideological First identity;
is MY ticket
BACK TO HUMANITY,
and away from all
the reciprocal
social deficits
of Autism I
do suffer
from at
one time
FOR SURE;
FROM the spoon-
fed mechanical
cognition poison
of a culture increasingly
growing 'insane' away from basic

CLASSICALLY EVOLVED SOCIAL ANIMAL

HUMANITY. Anything that teaches the
Golden Rule; regardless of the details
associated with that; that are
incorrect; is miles ahead
of what truly counts
in life and that is
HUMANITY.

THAT IS why religion will never ever
die; it is core of what makes
humans tick and survive;
as religion is an EXTREMELY
effective and affective avenue
for human social cooperation
and social bonding
for common
purpose,
FOR SURVIVAL.

The height of human true
IGNORANCE are all the moves
of culture away
from
THAT.

As long as "YEC's" are socially
cooperating and having
children who succeed
in having more children
they ARE SUCCEEDING
IN what TRULY
counts in
surviving.

All the rest is
just 'fluff' and
'mental
masturbation',
more or less..;)

'They'; RFO

(religious folks overall);
YES, will inherit the earth;
And even science shows that
religion is in a lull (HULL); but soon to
make (GRAINS) gains in the coming years;
as numbers of procreation
are always the bottom line
of the
SURVIVAL
OF THE
FITTEST
ALIVE.

Some folks talk about IT.
And other folks just do
the 'wild thing' and go
on to continue
A species
THRIVING
ALIVE.

'Bibles' are
'just' accessories
to GET THE JOB
DONE..;)

And a women covered up
except for eyes; that's the
'ultimate sexy' for an 'empath'
like me, who can see a soul
with just one look in
the eyes
of
another,
as well as
desire of heaRts
and spirIts expressed
with
'eye'.

Oh yeah, and here's the EVIDENCE
from 'PEW POLL', as this IS GOING to happen;
'fairly' soon, with more and more
covered bodies
and beauty
of
'eye' EXPOSED..:)

http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

And yes, this is a 'deep' issue of humanity that takes much deeper eyes and minds
AND words, than the average human today is either capable of, or wills to do.
But yes, it is fascinating for those who still have the innate human
tools and WILLS to do just this; WITH ALL due empathic Respect
of course, on course, FOR the 'GOLDEN RULE OF EYES'..:)


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01 Jun 2015, 12:12 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
...I am a conservative Christian, but I do NOT fit the stereotype!

I amn't a conservative Christian, but I do seem to fit the stereotype in some ways (red-letter Christian, gun owning, constitutionalist libertarian). They balance my other stereotype (gay, (d)emocratic Jeffersonian, pro-marriage equality). It makes me giggle to see the smoke coming out of the ears of people who discover these apparently conflicting beliefs. Hehe. :lol:


Honestly, that's because, as a "Red-Letter Christian," homosexuality and homosexual marriage doesn't make any sense, is incompatible with the faith, and can't be supported with Scripture. If you would please take a moment to walk through purely New Testament Scripture with me...

Let's start with Saul, who would become known as Paul.

Acts 9 English Standard Version (ESV)

The Conversion of Saul
9 But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. 3 Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven shone around him. 4 And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.” 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul rose from the ground, and although his eyes were opened, he saw nothing. So they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” 11 And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, 12 and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” 13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; 19 and taking food, he was strengthened.


As we can see, Jesus chose Paul, a Pharisee and former enemy of the Church, to carry to message of Jesus Christ and the Gospel across the world. This is a man filled with the Holy Spirit, who would go on to be the greatest champion of Jesus Christ to ever walk the earth, and who wrote 14 of the 27 books of the New Testament.

Here is what Paul, by the commission of Jesus Christ, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, wrote about homosexuality:

First, Paul's opening to the Letter to the Romans:

Romans 1 English Standard Version (ESV)

Greeting
1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,

7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


And now for his message further on in the same letter and chapter (the underlined is important):

God's Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.


The Scripture is clear: homosexuality is a serious error and those who even so much as give their approval, which is to say support, are in serious trouble and error themselves.

Now on to Paul's 1st Letter to the Corinthians:

First, Paul's opening to the Church in Corinth:

1 Corinthians 1 English Standard Version (ESV)

Greeting
1 Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sosthenes,

2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


And now for his message in chapter 6 of the same letter:

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

The message is clear. Just as with many other sins, homosexuality is very serious and will keep one from entering the Kingdom of God. An alcoholic isn't condemned for having an illness and being an alcoholic. An alcoholic falls into trouble when he or she chooses to further indulge in their sin. Should an alcoholic ever have a drink or a sip? Just one? No, never! In the same way, a homosexual isn't condemned for being a homosexual, but they fall into trouble when they willingly choose to have homosexual relations. Should an alcoholic build a bar in his or her home? No, never! In the same way, a homosexual should never have a homosexual marriage.

And now let's move on to the Book of Acts written by Luke, Paul's traveling companion, and the Council of Jerusalem, the very first Council and Decrees of the Church:

Acts 15 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers

22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, 23 with the following letter: “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, 25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”


One of the first four decrees of the Church ever, was to abstain from sexual immorality, which homosexuality falls under. The Apostles thought it very important, as we see here.

And now, for Jesus' interaction with the woman caught in adultery:

John 8 English Standard Version (ESV)

8 1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”


Read the last verse, especially. Jesus did not condemn the adultress for her past sins, but once she heard the Gospel and received the forgiveness of Jesus Christ, she was instructed to go, and stop committing adultery.

Hopefully this helps. This has all been purely New Testament Scripture. Homosexuality is explicitly condemned; it cannot be supported by Scripture and is utterly incompatible with the Christian faith. The Christian faith is about repentance of sins and laying down your own life and desires to follow Christ.



aghogday
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01 Jun 2015, 1:07 pm

Breaking Enigma wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
...I am a conservative Christian, but I do NOT fit the stereotype!

I amn't a conservative Christian, but I do seem to fit the stereotype in some ways (red-letter Christian, gun owning, constitutionalist libertarian). They balance my other stereotype (gay, (d)emocratic Jeffersonian, pro-marriage equality). It makes me giggle to see the smoke coming out of the ears of people who discover these apparently conflicting beliefs. Hehe. :lol:


Honestly, that's because, as a "Red-Letter Christian," homosexuality and homosexual marriage doesn't make any sense, is incompatible with the faith, and can't be supported with Scripture. If you would please take a moment to walk through purely New Testament Scripture with me...

Let's start with Saul, who would become known as Paul.

Acts 9 English Standard Version (ESV)

The Conversion of Saul
9 But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. 3 Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven shone around him. 4 And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.” 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul rose from the ground, and although his eyes were opened, he saw nothing. So they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” 11 And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, 12 and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” 13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; 19 and taking food, he was strengthened.


As we can see, Jesus chose Paul, a Pharisee and former enemy of the Church, to carry to message of Jesus Christ and the Gospel across the world. This is a man filled with the Holy Spirit, who would go on to be the greatest champion of Jesus Christ to ever walk the earth, and who wrote 14 of the 27 books of the New Testament.

Here is what Paul, by the commission of Jesus Christ, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, wrote about homosexuality:

First, Paul's opening to the Letter to the Romans:

Romans 1 English Standard Version (ESV)

Greeting
1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,

7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


And now for his message further on in the same letter and chapter (the underlined is important):

God's Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.


The Scripture is clear: homosexuality is a serious error and those who even so much as give their approval, which is to say support, are in serious trouble and error themselves.

Now on to Paul's 1st Letter to the Corinthians:

First, Paul's opening to the Church in Corinth:

1 Corinthians 1 English Standard Version (ESV)

Greeting
1 Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sosthenes,

2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


And now for his message in chapter 6 of the same letter:

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

The message is clear. Just as with many other sins, homosexuality is very serious and will keep one from entering the Kingdom of God. An alcoholic isn't condemned for having an illness and being an alcoholic. An alcoholic falls into trouble when he or she chooses to further indulge in their sin. Should an alcoholic ever have a drink or a sip? Just one? No, never! In the same way, a homosexual isn't condemned for being a homosexual, but they fall into trouble when they willingly choose to have homosexual relations. Should an alcoholic build a bar in his or her home? No, never! In the same way, a homosexual should never have a homosexual marriage.

And now let's move on to the Book of Acts written by Luke, Paul's traveling companion, and the Council of Jerusalem, the very first Council and Decrees of the Church:

Acts 15 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers

22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, 23 with the following letter: “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, 25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”


One of the first four decrees of the Church ever, was to abstain from sexual immorality, which homosexuality falls under. The Apostles thought it very important, as we see here.

And now, for Jesus' interaction with the woman caught in adultery:

John 8 English Standard Version (ESV)

8 1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”


Read the last verse, especially. Jesus did not condemn the adultress for her past sins, but once she heard the Gospel and received the forgiveness of Jesus Christ, she was instructed to go, and stop committing adultery.

Hopefully this helps. This has all been purely New Testament Scripture. Homosexuality is explicitly condemned; it cannot be supported by Scripture and is utterly incompatible with the Christian faith. The Christian faith is about repentance of sins and laying down your own life and desires to follow Christ.


HOPEFULLY THIS HELPS:

It will make plenty of sense when you have a Gay son or daughter.

And with your attitude here; If they commit suicide it will be
both AT least, in part, YOUR FAULT AND THE FAULT
of your bullying IGNORANT religion in BLACK work of Book.

The closest primate cousin of humankind, the Bonobo;
all empathic LOVING social primate animal with God
given Bonobo Nature regularly engages in
oral sex; including tongue
kissing and homosexual
behavior as
a way of life;
hour to hour to
assure aggression and
violence is NOT A
WAY OF LIFE; And
IS extremely
successful;
more so than
less sexually
promiscuous
human beings
who never the
less commonly engage
in TOTALLY NORMAL GOD
GIVEN HUMAN NATURE as
Homosexuals; oral
sex loving folks;
and all the rest
of that kinda
STUFF THAT
makes peace
a reality
instead of
agression,
violence
and frigging WORLD WAR III.

Watch, look, SEE, and learn:



http://www.livescience.com/44464-bonobo-homosexuality-natural.html

Quote:
Homosexuality in bonobos is not cultural. When primatolgist Frans de Waal first saw the outlandish sexual acts of bonobos, other scientists remarked that the behavior must have arisen because those bonobos were locked in a zoo. But data gathered from the wild — and wild-born bonobos in captivity — over the past two decades has demonstrated that bonobo sexuality is just part of who they are.

The two bonobos Lodja and Mwanda were part of a study we conducted at Lola ya Bonobo sanctuary in Congo. Like many bonobos at the sanctuary and in the wild, these individuals practiced g-g rubbing, where two female bonobos rub their clitorises together, penis fencing between males, and a myriad of other socio-sexual behavior.

But what set Mwanda and Lodja apart, as well as the other six bonobos in the study, was that they were infants, each younger than 4 years old. They were orphans of the bushmeat trade, and were born in the wild. At Lola ya Bonobo, they were raised with other infants and human substitute mothers. There were no adult bonobos to "teach" them sexual behavior.

Sex for fun in bonobos, and many other animals, plays a social function. There is stress-relief sex, make-up sex and random hook-up sex. Chimpanzees, humans' more violent cousins, do not seem to use sex in this way. They occasionally torture each other, kill strangers and demonstrate other echoes of humanity's dark side. [Bonobos Make Love - Chimps Make War ]

Bonobos, who use sex to resolve conflict, have never been seen to kill each other. They share food. They are more cooperative than chimpanzees. And they are nicer to strangers than they are to friends. To bonobos, a peaceful, sexual existence is the most natural thing in the world.


I am 'strong as a chimp'; but as loving as a Bonobo; yes, for me women, ONLY; but to each
his own with HUMAN GOD GIVEN NATURE FREEDOMS.

I LOVE TO play with Homophobes
in real life; trust me; I put
them in their place
of total
IGNORANCE;
A martial artist can
do that with a whole
group of male homophobes; TOTALLY FEARLESS.

But anyway; with a little education for YOU;

Your sons or daughters
VERY LIFE could
DEPEND ON IT;
if you care to
reproduce;
particularly,
more than one son;
as science shows that
the next batch of
sons are more
likely to
be
HOMOSEXUAL;
AND THAT'S A FACT
OF all God of Nature
Given Human Nature;
And yes, Science, too.

These kind of human beliefs
are both ignorant, disgusting,
and non-human as both
science and
GOD PROVES.

YOU don't get to control GOD
or gays with a little black work
of human constructed words.

You can try; or even cry;
but sorry; it will not work
in a 'True Israel' like the GOOD
OLE USA; BY 'Book of Ignorance'.


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01 Jun 2015, 1:11 pm

^^^
The way I see it, regardless of what the Bible says about homosexuality, the fact is, we live in a constitutional republic, where everyone - everyone - has the exact same civil rights. And that includes gay people. If you don't approve of gay marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex, but let people live their lives as they please.


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AspieUtah
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01 Jun 2015, 1:12 pm

Breaking Enigma wrote:
Honestly, that's because, as a "Red-Letter Christian," homosexuality and homosexual marriage doesn't make any sense, is incompatible with the faith, and can't be supported with Scripture. If you would please take a moment to walk through purely New Testament Scripture with me...

Let's start with Saul, who would become known as Paul....

True. But, Paul is a secondary figure in Red-Letter Christianity. Paul is castigated by some feminists because he argued that women should remain silent in the churches. Those who castigate him fail to acknowledge that most first-century churches prohibit women from attending outright. So, for its time, Paul was actually quite pro-feminist, if also a little restrictive out of necessity.

In the same way, Paul sees homosexuality differently than either 21st-century Christians or his first-century cohorts. Loyola Press National Consultant for Faith Formation Joe Paprocki, D.Min., of Chicago writes a brief description for Catholic readers which distills the argument nicely.

BustedHalo.com wrote:
Was St. Paul homophobic? Some people come to that unfortunate conclusion when reading some of his writings about homosexuality such as Romans 1:24-27; 1Corinthians 6:9-10; and 1Tim 1:10. In particular, it must be noted that, in the Greco-Roman world of which Paul was a part, it was not uncommon for boys or young men to be kept for the purposes of prostitution. When Paul refers to "Sodomites" (1Cor 6:9), he is referring to those adults who used such boys for their own sexual indulgence. Likewise, Paul's references to these types of acts must be seen within his more general warnings against any kind of sexual promiscuity. In essence, Paul is warning about any actions that will lead to sexuality becoming idolatrous -- i.e. people seeking their ultimate joy and meaning in sexuality per se.

Paul's references to homosexual acts were not particularly controversial to early Christians who knew that the holiness code of Leviticus forbad homosexual acts (Leviticus 20:13). Paul was merely reaffirming that which was held by faithful Jews and early Christians. We have no evidence that there was a movement afoot in Corinth to press for wider acceptance of same-sex activity. Paul does not single out homosexuality but refers to it within a list of other acts that were accepted as idolatrous but were now to be left behind by those who had chosen Jesus. So, although [he] is not homophobic, he is clearly against any form of homosexual activity. Based on Scripture, the Catholic Church teaches that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered" and "contrary to natural law." (CCC 2357) At the same time, the Church teaches that people with homosexual tendencies "must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity" and that any sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. (CCC 2357)

BustedHalo.com: "What does St Paul say about homosexuality?" (n.d.)
http://www.bustedhalo.com/questionbox/w ... osexuality

There is much about the collected opinions of writers about biblical precedent and homosexuality ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible ... osexuality ) with which I agree. What appears to present itself is the abundance and variety of opinions all apparently within the guidelines of Paul's encouragement to "reason" with scriptures.

But, we see little definitive about the matter. Maybe that is because Jesus, Himself, said nothing about the topic of homosexuality, good or bad. But, He did stress the commandment to "love one another" including our "enemies[.]" Taken as a whole, I don't see the matter of homosexuality being included in any of Jesus' Top-10 lists of expectations.

Modern criticisms about such things as homosexuality and same-sex marriage are largely temporal in my opinion. Maybe that is why Jesus had nothing to say and little to do about it. But, in the matter of the centurion's servant, He did treat an apparent homosexual relationship equally and lovingly without criticizing it.


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Breaking Enigma
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01 Jun 2015, 1:27 pm

aghogday wrote:
Breaking Enigma wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
...I am a conservative Christian, but I do NOT fit the stereotype!

I amn't a conservative Christian, but I do seem to fit the stereotype in some ways (red-letter Christian, gun owning, constitutionalist libertarian). They balance my other stereotype (gay, (d)emocratic Jeffersonian, pro-marriage equality). It makes me giggle to see the smoke coming out of the ears of people who discover these apparently conflicting beliefs. Hehe. :lol:


Honestly, that's because, as a "Red-Letter Christian," homosexuality and homosexual marriage doesn't make any sense, is incompatible with the faith, and can't be supported with Scripture. If you would please take a moment to walk through purely New Testament Scripture with me...

Let's start with Saul, who would become known as Paul.

Acts 9 English Standard Version (ESV)

The Conversion of Saul
9 But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. 3 Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven shone around him. 4 And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.” 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul rose from the ground, and although his eyes were opened, he saw nothing. So they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” 11 And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, 12 and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” 13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; 19 and taking food, he was strengthened.


As we can see, Jesus chose Paul, a Pharisee and former enemy of the Church, to carry to message of Jesus Christ and the Gospel across the world. This is a man filled with the Holy Spirit, who would go on to be the greatest champion of Jesus Christ to ever walk the earth, and who wrote 14 of the 27 books of the New Testament.

Here is what Paul, by the commission of Jesus Christ, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, wrote about homosexuality:

First, Paul's opening to the Letter to the Romans:

Romans 1 English Standard Version (ESV)

Greeting
1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,

7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


And now for his message further on in the same letter and chapter (the underlined is important):

God's Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.


The Scripture is clear: homosexuality is a serious error and those who even so much as give their approval, which is to say support, are in serious trouble and error themselves.

Now on to Paul's 1st Letter to the Corinthians:

First, Paul's opening to the Church in Corinth:

1 Corinthians 1 English Standard Version (ESV)

Greeting
1 Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sosthenes,

2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


And now for his message in chapter 6 of the same letter:

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

The message is clear. Just as with many other sins, homosexuality is very serious and will keep one from entering the Kingdom of God. An alcoholic isn't condemned for having an illness and being an alcoholic. An alcoholic falls into trouble when he or she chooses to further indulge in their sin. Should an alcoholic ever have a drink or a sip? Just one? No, never! In the same way, a homosexual isn't condemned for being a homosexual, but they fall into trouble when they willingly choose to have homosexual relations. Should an alcoholic build a bar in his or her home? No, never! In the same way, a homosexual should never have a homosexual marriage.

And now let's move on to the Book of Acts written by Luke, Paul's traveling companion, and the Council of Jerusalem, the very first Council and Decrees of the Church:

Acts 15 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers

22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, 23 with the following letter: “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, 25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”


One of the first four decrees of the Church ever, was to abstain from sexual immorality, which homosexuality falls under. The Apostles thought it very important, as we see here.

And now, for Jesus' interaction with the woman caught in adultery:

John 8 English Standard Version (ESV)

8 1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”


Read the last verse, especially. Jesus did not condemn the adultress for her past sins, but once she heard the Gospel and received the forgiveness of Jesus Christ, she was instructed to go, and stop committing adultery.

Hopefully this helps. This has all been purely New Testament Scripture. Homosexuality is explicitly condemned; it cannot be supported by Scripture and is utterly incompatible with the Christian faith. The Christian faith is about repentance of sins and laying down your own life and desires to follow Christ.


HOPEFULLY THIS HELPS:

It will make plenty of sense when you have a Gay son or daughter.

And with your attitude here; If they commit suicide it will be
both AT least, in part, YOUR FAULT AND THE FAULT
of your bullying IGNORANT religion in BLACK work of Book.

The closest primate cousin of humankind, the Bonobo;
all empathic LOVING social primate animal with God
given Bonobo Nature regularly engages in
oral sex; including tongue
kissing and homosexual
behavior as
a way of life;
hour to hour to
assure aggression and
violence is NOT A
WAY OF LIFE; And
IS extremely
successful;
more so than
less sexually
promiscuous
human beings
who never the
less commonly engage
in TOTALLY NORMAL GOD
GIVEN HUMAN NATURE as
Homosexuals; oral
sex loving folks;
and all the rest
of that kinda
STUFF THAT
makes peace
a reality
instead of
agression,
violence
and frigging WORLD WAR III.

Watch, look, SEE, and learn:



http://www.livescience.com/44464-bonobo-homosexuality-natural.html

Quote:
Homosexuality in bonobos is not cultural. When primatolgist Frans de Waal first saw the outlandish sexual acts of bonobos, other scientists remarked that the behavior must have arisen because those bonobos were locked in a zoo. But data gathered from the wild — and wild-born bonobos in captivity — over the past two decades has demonstrated that bonobo sexuality is just part of who they are.

The two bonobos Lodja and Mwanda were part of a study we conducted at Lola ya Bonobo sanctuary in Congo. Like many bonobos at the sanctuary and in the wild, these individuals practiced g-g rubbing, where two female bonobos rub their clitorises together, penis fencing between males, and a myriad of other socio-sexual behavior.

But what set Mwanda and Lodja apart, as well as the other six bonobos in the study, was that they were infants, each younger than 4 years old. They were orphans of the bushmeat trade, and were born in the wild. At Lola ya Bonobo, they were raised with other infants and human substitute mothers. There were no adult bonobos to "teach" them sexual behavior.

Sex for fun in bonobos, and many other animals, plays a social function. There is stress-relief sex, make-up sex and random hook-up sex. Chimpanzees, humans' more violent cousins, do not seem to use sex in this way. They occasionally torture each other, kill strangers and demonstrate other echoes of humanity's dark side. [Bonobos Make Love - Chimps Make War ]

Bonobos, who use sex to resolve conflict, have never been seen to kill each other. They share food. They are more cooperative than chimpanzees. And they are nicer to strangers than they are to friends. To bonobos, a peaceful, sexual existence is the most natural thing in the world.


I am 'strong as a chimp'; but as loving as a Bonobo; yes, for me women, ONLY; but to each
his own with HUMAN GOD GIVEN NATURE FREEDOMS.

I LOVE TO play with Homophobes
in real life; trust me; I put
them in their place
of total
IGNORANCE;
A martial artist can
do that with a whole
group of male homophobes; TOTALLY FEARLESS.

But anyway; with a little education for YOU;

Your sons or daughters
VERY LIFE could
DEPEND ON IT;
if you care to
reproduce;
particularly,
more than one son;
as science shows that
the next batch of
sons are more
likely to
be
HOMOSEXUAL;
AND THAT'S A FACT
OF all God of Nature
Given Human Nature;
And yes, Science, too.

These kind of human beliefs
are both ignorant, disgusting,
and non-human as both
science and
GOD PROVES.

YOU don't get to control GOD
or gays with a little black work
of human constructed words.

You can try; or even cry;
but sorry; it will not work
in a 'True Israel' like the GOOD
OLE USA; BY 'Book of Ignorance'.


There's too much nonsensical rambling in this post to even address it point by point. Sorry pal, but this is purely a Christian and Scriptural point of view, which is the only view I take this side of Paradise. You've asserted so much false information about me and my views and what I may or may not do, that it makes me wonder, where, at all, did I give you any information outside of Scripture and about my personal life for you to draw any of your conclusions? I happen to have several gay family members, including my closest brother and my cousin (who, ironically, was over at my home with her wife Saturday afternoon). You have falsely and ignorantly equated Scriptural and thus Christian beliefs on sin for hatred and bullying. If you're an alcoholic I'm going to tell you that it's dangerous and that you should not indulge any more, but I'm still going to be your friend and love you the way Christ commanded.

All the best,

A former drunkard, adulterer, and idolater.

Matthew 9:12 English Standard Version (ESV)

12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,562

01 Jun 2015, 1:31 pm

Breaking Enigma wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Breaking Enigma wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
...I am a conservative Christian, but I do NOT fit the stereotype!

I amn't a conservative Christian, but I do seem to fit the stereotype in some ways (red-letter Christian, gun owning, constitutionalist libertarian). They balance my other stereotype (gay, (d)emocratic Jeffersonian, pro-marriage equality). It makes me giggle to see the smoke coming out of the ears of people who discover these apparently conflicting beliefs. Hehe. :lol:


Honestly, that's because, as a "Red-Letter Christian," homosexuality and homosexual marriage doesn't make any sense, is incompatible with the faith, and can't be supported with Scripture. If you would please take a moment to walk through purely New Testament Scripture with me...

Let's start with Saul, who would become known as Paul.

Acts 9 English Standard Version (ESV)

The Conversion of Saul
9 But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. 3 Now as he went on his way, he approached Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven shone around him. 4 And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.” 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul rose from the ground, and although his eyes were opened, he saw nothing. So they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” 11 And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, 12 and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” 13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; 19 and taking food, he was strengthened.


As we can see, Jesus chose Paul, a Pharisee and former enemy of the Church, to carry to message of Jesus Christ and the Gospel across the world. This is a man filled with the Holy Spirit, who would go on to be the greatest champion of Jesus Christ to ever walk the earth, and who wrote 14 of the 27 books of the New Testament.

Here is what Paul, by the commission of Jesus Christ, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, wrote about homosexuality:

First, Paul's opening to the Letter to the Romans:

Romans 1 English Standard Version (ESV)

Greeting
1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,

7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


And now for his message further on in the same letter and chapter (the underlined is important):

God's Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.


The Scripture is clear: homosexuality is a serious error and those who even so much as give their approval, which is to say support, are in serious trouble and error themselves.

Now on to Paul's 1st Letter to the Corinthians:

First, Paul's opening to the Church in Corinth:

1 Corinthians 1 English Standard Version (ESV)

Greeting
1 Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sosthenes,

2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


And now for his message in chapter 6 of the same letter:

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

The message is clear. Just as with many other sins, homosexuality is very serious and will keep one from entering the Kingdom of God. An alcoholic isn't condemned for having an illness and being an alcoholic. An alcoholic falls into trouble when he or she chooses to further indulge in their sin. Should an alcoholic ever have a drink or a sip? Just one? No, never! In the same way, a homosexual isn't condemned for being a homosexual, but they fall into trouble when they willingly choose to have homosexual relations. Should an alcoholic build a bar in his or her home? No, never! In the same way, a homosexual should never have a homosexual marriage.

And now let's move on to the Book of Acts written by Luke, Paul's traveling companion, and the Council of Jerusalem, the very first Council and Decrees of the Church:

Acts 15 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers

22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, 23 with the following letter: “The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, 25 it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”


One of the first four decrees of the Church ever, was to abstain from sexual immorality, which homosexuality falls under. The Apostles thought it very important, as we see here.

And now, for Jesus' interaction with the woman caught in adultery:

John 8 English Standard Version (ESV)

8 1 but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”


Read the last verse, especially. Jesus did not condemn the adultress for her past sins, but once she heard the Gospel and received the forgiveness of Jesus Christ, she was instructed to go, and stop committing adultery.

Hopefully this helps. This has all been purely New Testament Scripture. Homosexuality is explicitly condemned; it cannot be supported by Scripture and is utterly incompatible with the Christian faith. The Christian faith is about repentance of sins and laying down your own life and desires to follow Christ.


HOPEFULLY THIS HELPS:

It will make plenty of sense when you have a Gay son or daughter.

And with your attitude here; If they commit suicide it will be
both AT least, in part, YOUR FAULT AND THE FAULT
of your bullying IGNORANT religion in BLACK work of Book.

The closest primate cousin of humankind, the Bonobo;
all empathic LOVING social primate animal with God
given Bonobo Nature regularly engages in
oral sex; including tongue
kissing and homosexual
behavior as
a way of life;
hour to hour to
assure aggression and
violence is NOT A
WAY OF LIFE; And
IS extremely
successful;
more so than
less sexually
promiscuous
human beings
who never the
less commonly engage
in TOTALLY NORMAL GOD
GIVEN HUMAN NATURE as
Homosexuals; oral
sex loving folks;
and all the rest
of that kinda
STUFF THAT
makes peace
a reality
instead of
agression,
violence
and frigging WORLD WAR III.

Watch, look, SEE, and learn:



http://www.livescience.com/44464-bonobo-homosexuality-natural.html

Quote:
Homosexuality in bonobos is not cultural. When primatolgist Frans de Waal first saw the outlandish sexual acts of bonobos, other scientists remarked that the behavior must have arisen because those bonobos were locked in a zoo. But data gathered from the wild — and wild-born bonobos in captivity — over the past two decades has demonstrated that bonobo sexuality is just part of who they are.

The two bonobos Lodja and Mwanda were part of a study we conducted at Lola ya Bonobo sanctuary in Congo. Like many bonobos at the sanctuary and in the wild, these individuals practiced g-g rubbing, where two female bonobos rub their clitorises together, penis fencing between males, and a myriad of other socio-sexual behavior.

But what set Mwanda and Lodja apart, as well as the other six bonobos in the study, was that they were infants, each younger than 4 years old. They were orphans of the bushmeat trade, and were born in the wild. At Lola ya Bonobo, they were raised with other infants and human substitute mothers. There were no adult bonobos to "teach" them sexual behavior.

Sex for fun in bonobos, and many other animals, plays a social function. There is stress-relief sex, make-up sex and random hook-up sex. Chimpanzees, humans' more violent cousins, do not seem to use sex in this way. They occasionally torture each other, kill strangers and demonstrate other echoes of humanity's dark side. [Bonobos Make Love - Chimps Make War ]

Bonobos, who use sex to resolve conflict, have never been seen to kill each other. They share food. They are more cooperative than chimpanzees. And they are nicer to strangers than they are to friends. To bonobos, a peaceful, sexual existence is the most natural thing in the world.


I am 'strong as a chimp'; but as loving as a Bonobo; yes, for me women, ONLY; but to each
his own with HUMAN GOD GIVEN NATURE FREEDOMS.

I LOVE TO play with Homophobes
in real life; trust me; I put
them in their place
of total
IGNORANCE;
A martial artist can
do that with a whole
group of male homophobes; TOTALLY FEARLESS.

But anyway; with a little education for YOU;

Your sons or daughters
VERY LIFE could
DEPEND ON IT;
if you care to
reproduce;
particularly,
more than one son;
as science shows that
the next batch of
sons are more
likely to
be
HOMOSEXUAL;
AND THAT'S A FACT
OF all God of Nature
Given Human Nature;
And yes, Science, too.

These kind of human beliefs
are both ignorant, disgusting,
and non-human as both
science and
GOD PROVES.

YOU don't get to control GOD
or gays with a little black work
of human constructed words.

You can try; or even cry;
but sorry; it will not work
in a 'True Israel' like the GOOD
OLE USA; BY 'Book of Ignorance'.


There's too much nonsensical rambling in this post to even address it point by point. Sorry pal, but this is purely a Christian and Scriptural point of view, which is the only view I take this side of Paradise. You've asserted so much false information about me and my views and what I may or may not do, that it makes me wonder, where, at all, did I give you any information outside of Scripture and about my personal life for you to draw any of your conclusions? I happen to have several gay family members, including my closest brother and my cousin (who, ironically, was over at my home with her wife Saturday afternoon). You have falsely and ignorantly equated Scriptural and thus Christian beliefs on sin for hatred and bullying. If you're an alcoholic I'm going to tell you that it's dangerous and that you should not indulge any more, but I'm still going to be your friend and love you the way Christ commanded.

All the best,

A former drunkard, adulterer, and idolater.

Matthew 9:12 English Standard Version (ESV)

12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.


I assert absolutely no false accusations about you of your family; as it is all contingent on you having gay children;
which you do not have now. So pay attention to what I write or NOT.

Anyway, the scripture you quote is both ignorant and false according to both the GOD of Nature and Science.

So there; believe that or not...;)

There is no such thing as a 'real friend' who does not tolerate, accept, and support the FULL GOD given nature
of another person which does include homosexual acts, in the case of your brother, believe that or not.

Folks that commit suicide don't always give reasons; the greater pain is often kept silent.

And this is certainly the case for social acceptance of full human God Given Nature in
the case of homosexuals who do commit suicide; whose natures are considered
evil, by way of homosexual acts, by ignorant so called loving folks; who are far far
from understanding GOD and God Given Natures of
other humans beings who are simply
created differently by God of Nature,
per minds and bodies
that do the 'wild stuff'
with the same sex.

Just something to
ethically consider
OR NOT.
Contrived
morals of
religion ARE OFTEN FALSE ranging
from Female Genital Mutilation
to not understanding that
Homosexual Acts are part
AND ART of God given
HUMAN NATURE..:)


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


Last edited by aghogday on 01 Jun 2015, 1:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Breaking Enigma
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2015
Posts: 33

01 Jun 2015, 1:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
The way I see it, regardless of what the Bible says about homosexuality, the fact is, we live in a constitutional republic, where everyone - everyone - has the exact same civil rights. And that includes gay people. If you don't approve of gay marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex, but let people live their lives as they please.


Well, yes. But there is a difference between backing off and allowing people to live as they choose, and outright supporting what is condemned by Scripture, or worse, engaging in it. I couldn't care less if people, despite knowing the truth (whether they accept it or not), choose to marry someone of the same sex, but I won't support it, as in vote in favor of it or attend the ceremony. Come to my house to hang out afterwards if you want, though. You're more than welcome.