"Poverty is moral failure"

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First part was accurate...but you lost me at the second paragraph. Having taken psychology and sociology classess I know addiction is not a simple moral failing and much of the time addiction can result from attempts to self medicate other problems or cope with stress, and much of the time the poverty comes before the drug abuse...so based on that I know its typically much more than a moral failing. Then of course there is that not all poor who live in ghetto type areas are addicts but it may still be assumed if someone is poor and lives in such an area they must have got there themselves by being lazy or willfully becoming a drug addict.

Also do you have any studies/statistics you can link that back up your claim that the majority of the poor in this country are drug addicts who use all their resources for their habit? And several thousand dollars a month in food stamps huh?...that leads me to believe you don't have a realistic view on how much people actually usually get a month in food stamps...you're lucky if you get over 100$ a month. Also food stamps can only be used for food...yes its possible for someone to trade like let someone else use their food stamps for cash which is illegal, and I don't do that but you can't go buy beer and cigarettes with EBT foodstamps with the card for instance. Also you cannot withdraw EBT in cash format so its completely false that you can go buy a single apple with EBT and then take out 200$ in cash for drugs or anything else. At least get your damn facts straight.

People who drive expensive cars don't need some poor persons ebt money to buy fancy sea food...usually its other people who need food who will pay for them when that practice happens. Usually the food stamps are sold to other poor people who for whatever reason are short on food by someone who wants/needs cash for something. Though as someone who gets food stamps I don't feel its anyone's business if I decide to buy good quality food where possible. Also the majority of people on disability do not sell drugs on the side...sure there are likely a few, but why should that make it ok for right leaning working poor to hold a huge grudge against anyone on disability and treat us all like we're cheating the system to screw everyone over because they are too idiotic to realize even people on disability don't like it if someone is collecting it without need. That and most people who sell drugs wouldn't risk collecting disability...way too risky anyways. Also though lots of working poor are on food stamps and other welfare programs and aren't stupid enough to vote against programs that help them on account of a few frauds.

And how much does 20 hours a week at McDonalds pay? just want to make sure you are correct about it being less than you get for SSI since I am on SSI and get the full amount...so if your amount is higher that will mean you're wrong, if not then I guess you're right....either way how much does the 20 hours a week pay? And now the majority on SSI are selling women as well as drugs...wow, and we're all driving fancy cars? Funny I can't even afford a car...let alone insurance or gas for one. These people you are describing aren't even close to being an accurate representation of the majority of people on disability...and how do you even know all these people with fancy cars who live in the ghetto are on disability? Its possible to live in crappy areas and make money illegally and not collect any welfare to you know....seriously though get your facts straight because all this sounds like the same old right wing rhetoric meant to cause people to vote in anger rather then out of knowing how things actually work. Most people on disability do not have all these multiple incomes you're talking about....if you know someone who is a fraud, feel free to report them but don't generalize everyone on welfare as a bunch of frauds.

I think lots of people cognitively believe that poverty is not a moral failure, because they know that's stupid, but deep down, they actually do believe it. They'll come up with some excuses to allow the contridiction, like, "Oh, poverty isn't a moral failure, but in practice, most people getting welfare aren't legitimately poor, they're just drug addicts who are just pretending they can't earn money so they can get more funds for drugs...."

20 hours per week at the Federal minimum wage is 145 dollars. Some locations make get paid more.

Funny, Christ gave up his worldly possessions to wander ancient Judea, living by the kindness of others, as did his disciples. Were Christ and his followers moral failures? By the American standards of morality gauged by worldly success, along with the contempt for the needy that comes with it, they certainly would be judged to be. In fact, many today would cheer while "that moocher" got nailed to a cross.

Sweetleaf DOES have some good points. I was not trying to imply that ALL, or nearly all, people on disability are moochers who sell drugs, just that SOME probably are. As for taking cash out of EBT, I have seen people take cash off their EBT cards with my own eyes here in California, but I know that the state recently passed a law closing that loophole. Much of the rest is admittedly secondhand accounts, so I can't say for CERTAIN that the people who relayed it to me are telling the truth.

As for Christ, some historians believe that Christ came from a rich family and gave up a good job-there are scholars who think that the word translated as "carpenter" in the King James Bible actually means "architect"-to wander Judea and preach. That story is so similar to that of Buddha, who gave up his high ranking position in India's caste system to become a wandering preacher, that a few think that Christ may have been inspired by Buddha. There are tales of a man from the west who studied Buddhism in Kashmir and Japan, then left for home. There is apparently even a "grave of Christ" in Japan, and some think that "Hello Kitty" comes from an ancient Japanese phrase meaning "Hero Christ". So much of Christ's story will never be known.

That's fascinating; and the first time I've heard of a potential Japan connection to historical Jesus, per 'Hero Christ', as the phrase for the metaphor of 'Hello Kitty'.

Thanks for that; and I'll do some more research on that; but meanwhile, it gives a whole new meaning to 'the' video below. And yes, Hollywood is always playing with the minds of fundamentalist Christians who want to rule the world; no less than fundamentalist Muslims with their religion.

The real dude Jesus does seem more like a Yogi Naturist Philosopher, per everything Nature 'says' goes; unlike a Televangelist in it for the dollar bills and attachments to human tools.

Truly, endless happiness without limit can be

found and kept within HUMAN BEING;

Any REAL Yogi can tell one that..

There are many human 'priests' manifest as the metaphor of the 'Christ or Buddha Nature' through time of Human Nature and God of Nature Merit, who work their butt off to make the fruition of that come true in their human life, to teach others, as well.

But any religion or country can anoint a human and elect them to whatever high office they like; even a
Roman Emperor named Constantine, and cohort Catholic Leaders promoting the likely Yogi-leaning Jesus
Naturist Dude to the King of the Universe; a step above the king of the world; per that
lead male part standing on the bow of the Titanic; shortly before it crashes and
SINKS.





And I'm not going to lie; when I, at age 54 turning 55 next week, dance with
scores of smiling girls, some of which call me a dancing hero and or
legend of dance; I too, at times, FEEL like A King of the world;

But not unlike Leonardo DiCaprio;
it's just a frigging feeling;
and NOT the literal truth.

There's a lesson to learn in that.

'We are ALL dust in the wind'.



Now is the only gift that is real.

I dance NOW all the time to make
ALL NOW
ALL NOW
CAN BE;

While others
shuffle by
in robot
walks of
grim in Super-Walmart.
It's truly no different
than 'Neo' as Me..o.W.

Poverty is absolutely not a moral failure.

Agreed. There is nothing morally wrong with a wealthy person ignoring panhandlers, nor with someone saving money for a "rainy day" when there are people forced to sleep outside in the rain due to their inability to pay the rent.

I hope you realize that I am being sarcastic ...

No one thought that the crazy skyrocketing increase of education costs in the last decade have a huge impact on poverty? (the phenomenon is everywhere, except Germany perhaps).

Paying a lot for education ==> a lot of debts after graduation ==> Poor.

Not doing a lot of education or doing a cheap education ==> low chance of finding a good job unless you are talented ==> Poor.



Greedy education institutions have a moral failure.

I do not think being poor is a reflection of one being a "moral failure." Sure, *some* people are poor as a result of their bad moral decisions, but it is unfair to make that judgment across the board.

I am not sure if the existence of poverty is a moral failure. I think it just happens, in any society, in any economy. The number of people and the level of poverty might change from place to place/time to time, but it seems inevitable in any society that some people will end up on the bottom.

The moral failure of the rich/those better off, then, is when they refuse to help those who are poor. I don't think poverty can be completely eliminated. But that doesn't mean we should blame those who are poor and refuse to help. THAT is wrong!

People will debate on how best to help those who are poor.

But, I personally will not turn away from someone asking me for money. I am a Christian, and I believe God supplies all my need.

There have been times when my family has been part of the "working poor". It was incredibly stressful, but we never went without a meal due to "miraculous" moments of receiving unexpected money in the mail or coming home to boxes of groceries left on our doorstep or some help from local charities, etc. Now, we are more comfortable but I am in school and the numbers don't always add up on paper. But, we pay our bills on time.

But here's the thing. If I believe my God "owns the cattle on a thousand hills" and will supply what I need, who I am to turn around and ignore a poor person? I refuse to do that. We go through our things regularly and donate stuff to charities instead of trying to sell it. I usually keep small bills on hand when I go to the city so I *have something ready* to give to one who asks.

I decided long ago that it's not *MY JOB* to judge whether or not the person asking me for money is "morally upright." If that person is lying about his/her situation, it's not *me* s/he has to answer to. If that person uses the money I give to go buy alcohol or something else "unacceptable", it's not *me* s/he has to answer to. I just give. One time, I ran into someone who asked for money to buy a coffee. I was heading into a coffee shop. I didn't have cash that day, but I brought him in with me and let him order whatever he wanted and paid for his order. We chatted for a few minutes before I had to leave and drive home.

A couple of years ago, although I was already in the habit, this really hit home as I was in the city shopping with my son for a bass. We didn't have the money for a bass. God provided it. So, we who didn't have enough money to buy a bass are now shopping for one in the $20,000 range. Then someone asks me for money. At the time, all I had were larger bills, which is more than I would normally hand out at one time, but I thought to myself "Who am I, who was *JUST GIVEN A BASS* to think $10 is too much to give away to someone else?" So, I gave.

I KNOW HOW MUCH *I* HAVE BEEN GIVEN. So, I give in return.

I don't normally tell people the things I do, but I feel it was particularly pertinent in this thread.

Are you back in the loop enough to clarify on whom's part poverty would be a moral failure?

God bless and keep you.

If consumerism is the religion then poverty is a moral failing.

Poverty is failure to get rich.

Yes, it's an absence of money but even rich people can suffer a form of poverty, just in a different area. Monetary poverty is only one kind. Money isn't everything and you can be poor yet still be rich on so many levels compared to those who experience monetary abundance.

Doing what you love and being around people you are comfortable with is so much more important than money but if money is one outcome of that, consider it a bonus.

I wonder who the two people were who voted yes.

Anyway, no, poverty may be the result of many things, but certainly not moral failure. If anything, it is usually those who pursue riches who are the ones who are morally deficient, thinking that 'success', as it is defined by those who control this dysfunctional world we live in, is worth pursuing for its own sake with no consideration or care for the consequences. As someone mentioned before, Jesus Christ himself would, by these standards, be considered to be a moral failure as well. Nothing, I believe, could be more bizarre than this.

There is EBT cash but it is a very minimal amount an its for people applying for disability who are likely to get on it...at least in my state might be a little different in other states. But EBT food stamps do not come in cash that you can withdraw so if you've seen it I'd think it would have had to been the EBT cash not food stamps.