Hobby Lobby Revelation.

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This makes me sad because I love Hobby Lobby's selection of supplies but look at who they support; Bill Gothard and his Institute of Basic Life Principles and Advanced Training Institute. Training, not teaching. Can you believe it? Kids just need to be trained in the "right thinking." In other words, it's fascism. And Hobby Lobby fully supports this, even gave expensive land for only $10. Of course it became a tremendous tax write off, as I am sure they had it appraised for much more, then deducted it.

Just the notion that we all simply need to be trained and have no value to self actualize is insulting in itself. Even if you are a die hard Republican, don't you find it insulting this organization's creed is you need to be trained?

I hate that if I buy supplies from Hobby Lobby, my money will be going to creeps like Gothard and fascist, insulting organizations that cannot even be bothered to regard me as a human being capable of thinking and choosing, just an animal in dire need of training.

Why oh why is this such a problem in this part of the country? These corporations quickly morph into corporate fascism, the epitome of arrogance and sanctimonious narcissism. It goes beyond other examples of corporate narcissism. I do not need a corporation to think for me and I do not believe the ones who run them, or the dividend holders are any better informed than I. A lot of times they are corrupt slime balls far more immoral. What hypocrites!

This is why conservatives don't like common core either--because it tries to teach kids HOW to think, instead of what to think...

An ideologue is an ideologue is an ideologue.

Just for the sake of adding some background to the rant, here is an excerpt from This Wikipedia Article.

So, which of his personal beliefs do you object to the most?

Or is it something to do with this:

I think the big problem here has more to do with methods/indoctrination rather than specific beliefs.

It kinda reminds me of a documentary called Jesus Camp . In that movie you can see example of Lifton's criteria of thought reform being applied to the kids. It's actually very disturbing.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Re ... f_Totalism

You must not be familiar with his home schooling curriculum or the fact he resigned due to multiple allegations of sexual abuse. His moral foundation is weak but since he utters a few words on how to avoid debt, SOMETHING ANYONE CAN FIND OUT FOR THEMSELVES BY SIMPLY READING BOOKS ON FINANCE, he suddenly becomes the pet of conservatives and can do no wrong. He's a good guy because he doesn't want people to go into debt but in fact, he's a creep.

Conservative dress is a personal choice.

Large families, I know about them because my mom's side of the family is loaded with them and I can tell you, it aint a cakewalk having a bunch of kids, then trying to figure out how to feed and shelter them. But you won't hear about it from these people who will make it look easy and like it is what everyone, according to God, should be doing. All women should birth as many kids as they possibly can. It's not about choice with them, Fnord. We should all do it or we aren't living Godly lives and the answer, if we don't want to, simply train us and we will.

And this ATI is so backward, it actually blames casual dress and lack of parents for crimes like child molestation. It's because of how one dresses or due to the parents not being in the same room and this is what's to blame for the crime. Most people disagree with that. Most PSYCHOLOGISTS, PSYCHIATRISTS, SOCIAL WORKERS.

The funny thing about members of this ATI and IBLP cult, they would actually influence more people if they encouraged their members to "train" as psychologists and lawyers. They might actually stand a chance of getting more people hooked on their warped thinking and values but that would be bad for the rest of us.

And as far as my values and morals - I am miles ahead of them and I do not belong to a cult or church for that matter so I don't need them or their training. Actually, it is they that are in need of MINE!

Obviously, you have not read my post in its entirety, but only reacted to the first question in it. Remember, allegations are not evidence; and without evidence, there can be no conviction.Be careful ... your hubris is showing.

Obviously, you have not read my post in its entirety, but only reacted to the first question in it. Remember, allegations are not evidence; and without evidence, there can be no conviction.[quote="ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo"][...]

Why would you defend such an individual when you don't even believe in astrology, Fnord?
He should be tried if he committed crimes but rich people like this are seldom ever held accountable for what they do. It's known as corruption and I am not about to be controlled by some corrupt organization ran by rich, decadent, immoral hypocrites and the people who kowtow to them and keep them in power. Too much "training" for my taste. I can tell you this, Fnord, they will never "train" me. I am far from their grasp.

It's obvious there's a lot of crimes being committed and yet they get covered up. A pattern has emerged and we see the same pattern over and over whenever it's someone with power and influence. It's a big cover up, they get kowtowed to, no one ever holds them accountable. It's absolutely pathetic how insidious "training" can be. People are left without minds, they are zombies.

I'm not defending anybody. I'm just relying on facts, rather than personal feelings.

If you had done your homework, you would have seen that Mr. Gothard has been deposed by his own organization. Now that is a revelation! If IBLP has deposed him, then he no longer has any connection with Hobby Lobby (except for maybe some shares of stock).

Your citing of astrology in this discussion is a red herring - it is irrelevant and not germain to the topic at hand.

If it is obvious that crimes are being committed, then they are not being covered up; and if the alleged crimes are being covered up, then it is not obvious that they are being committed.

(Let's all remove our tinfoil hats, now!)

If you don't like Hobby Lobby, then boycott them. On-line stores and e-Bay carry a much greater selection of items, and usually at lower prices.

That organization is no better than Bill Gothard and if you will research, you will find this out. Do not rely on their debt reduction seminars as the rod in which to measure.

You do know the rod is a measuring stick, it's not an actual stick you hit people with? Apparently, people who read the Bible don't realize this. If you spare the rod, Fnord, you spoil people like Gothard.

There's a discrepancy between who these people are and the image they present. They aren't truthful about reality. They try to look so good and like they are the best and only way when it's not necessarily so. It's just people trying to get money and control everyone, determining how many kids each woman has. If they ever had control of the government, women would either be completely celibate or having as many kids as possible. That is their agenda. Doesn't matter what kind of environment the kid will live in.

I say if you want to have all those kids, then you are going to be stuck figuring out ways to take care of them and provide for them and should be a lesson for the rest of us why it's not such a good idea to have that many. That is MY wisdom. Untrained wisdom.

It is not the people who choose that path who should be determining things for the rest of us based on a book no one has added to for thousands of years. It's us who need to show them, hey, maybe this isn't the most practical situation to find yourself in.

Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 28 May 2015, 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Oh, get over it! Your little rant here will have no effect on Gothard, his organization, or any of his business dealings. The man is in his eighties, so he's not long for this world, anyway. Just wait a while and he will no longer be around to torment your sense of propriety.

My rant is about Hobby Lobby.

Basically I am upset because I want to buy stuff from Hobby Lobby yet they go and give my money to wacko cults like this. I don't want my money going there. Corporations are so slimy.

'Fascism' has a specific meaning; it refers to a system in which the State controls and plans the economy, but private business ownership is nominally retained. It is not a general term of disparagement for anything you dislike. A private entity using its funds to promote its values – whether good or bad, true or false – is the opposite of fascism.

If you don't like what Hobby Libby does with its profits, don't spend your money there. Alternatives always exist.

Actually around here, Hobby Lobby has the most to offer when it comes to art supplies instead of mainly craft. There's online but that often has postage, handling and sales tax added.

Fascism is when they try to control the way you think and what you do. It's control, mind and body.

Looking at this source, when it comes to therapy for those who have been sexually abused, the Gothard method seems to involve a large amount of victim blaming. This is a website for survivors of the Gothard method:

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2015/05/gracenote/

Looking at this, the method seems to be pretty messed up. From the same link: