I'm so tired of being an outcast at work....

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dontwanttoknow
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28 Mar 2007, 1:39 pm

...I mentioned in an earlier thread how I don't get invited to lunch at work unless the whole office is invited. Last Friday someone was leaving, so they invited the office again and about 10 or so people went, including me. While we were leaving the restaurant several people were talking about going to a place nearby sometime this week that several of the people were familiar with, but others wanted to try. I didn't indicate that I wanted to join them..they weren't really talking to me anyway.

Today was the day they went. I heard a couple of them talking about it near my desk. I have no idea if everyone that was at the lunch Friday except me was invited, or just a few people, but I'm sure there were a bunch. I left before they did because I knew they wouldn't invite me and wouldn't be happy if I invited myself along. But I'm getting so sick of having to leave early to avoid being and feeling left out. I wish I knew what the problem was that they can't invite me to lunch anymore.



MrWizard
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28 Mar 2007, 2:02 pm

I think there are two questions you could ask yourself that -might- assist your situation.

A) Do you want to 'fit in' with them?
B) Do you really try?

Imagine yourself in their shoes. There you are, with all of your coworkers and friends. Chatting at an office lunch and having a good ole time. Finally, your friends decide that they want to check out a new place on Friday. This is normal, and you'd love to go. But there's the new guy Bob over there who never talks to anyone. He never asks if he can go nor shows interest. He's a quiet guy, and likes to keep to himself. Your friends and you are busy making plans, so do you even notice Bob? And if you do, do you specifically invite him? Perhaps because he doesn't input, approach, talk much, or add to the conversation... he feels more like a microphone than a person. Always listening and never speaking. Like your conversations are being recorded and video taped by a quiet camera-man in the corner 24/7.

Not to say that that is the case, but it can tend to make some people uncomfortable. My advice is as follows:

A) Loosen up, smile more, ask questions.
B) Ask questions, loosen up, and smile more.
C) Smile a bit, ask more questions and just loosen up.

Next time they hit a bar up after work, just say "Hey, am I invited?! :D" Of course you are! Will be their response. Or, if you'd rather take the subtle approach, try "Actually, I think I'm free around that time!" And they'll definately invite you without you're even asking.

Good luck whatever you do.



TimT
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28 Mar 2007, 4:05 pm

In the book, "Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships" by Temple Grandin et al, rule #9 says, ""Fitting in" is often tied to looking and sounding like you fit in." In other words, fake it until you make it.

However, if your reluctance is due to being badly socially burned (like I was), that's going to take some healing. Otherwise, the normals will pick up on your tension and feel uncomfortable around you.

To keep them from wondering about your sanity (and safety), I will mention that I have Aspergers in one of the first couple of times out. When they ask, "huh?", I give them a business card with a short definition of Aspergers on one side and our positive traits on the other side. Then they either see me as "different but safe" or handicapped. Either way, they cut me slack and accept me.



calandale
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28 Mar 2007, 6:37 pm

MrWizard wrote:

Next time they hit a bar up after work, just say "Hey, am I invited?! :D" Of course you are! Will be their response. Or, if you'd rather take the subtle approach, try "Actually, I think I'm free around that time!" And they'll definately invite you without you're even asking.

Good luck whatever you do.


Yeah, this works, but it seems an imposition. Worse, I've noticed that when I do try to force myself in these situations, their decision NOT to include me was probably the correct one, from everyone's standpoint.



dontwanttoknow
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28 Mar 2007, 8:29 pm

MrWizard wrote:
I think there are two questions you could ask yourself that -might- assist your situation.

Next time they hit a bar up after work, just say "Hey, am I invited?! :D" Of course you are! Will be their response. Or, if you'd rather take the subtle approach, try "Actually, I think I'm free around that time!" And they'll definately invite you without you're even asking.

Good luck whatever you do.


Thanks. I would feel uncomfortable doing that--in case they really didn't want me to come along for whatever reason, they probably would feel like they had to ask me and I wouldn't want to put them on the spot. Also I hate that fumbling, face-falling, expression-changing when someone really didn't want the person asking to go along, but now feels trapped. I'm afraid of seeing that again.



dontwanttoknow
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28 Mar 2007, 8:34 pm

TimT wrote:
To keep them from wondering about your sanity (and safety), I will mention that I have Aspergers in one of the first couple of times out. When they ask, "huh?", I give them a business card with a short definition of Aspergers on one side and our positive traits on the other side. Then they either see me as "different but safe" or handicapped. Either way, they cut me slack and accept me.


I can't actually do that because I don't have a diagnosis and have been told by several doctors I don't have AS....it would be a good idea though if ever I do get diagnosed.



dontwanttoknow
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29 Mar 2007, 11:27 am

Another thing, and this has happened as long as I can remember, is they never talk about anything except work-related topics to me. Today there was a stranger in the office, a cousin of someone--I hadn't seen her but people were asking about her and talking about there being someone different in and who it was, but no one talked to me until I asked about it. This is only one example of what I mean. I know some of you would rather keep on topic as much as possible (work-related topics at work) and don't like small talk, but not all Aspies are like this, at least I'm not and I hate that everyone here treats me as if I am and I don't know how to change it. I don't really have a life outside of work to talk about, so I think people think I don't care to talk about anything but work when I'm here.



gobi
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29 Mar 2007, 12:10 pm

I've spent the majority of my adult life facing the situation you described. I don't think that "smile more" or "ask more questions" or "loosen up" are particularly good pieces of advice for some of us, since the inability to do these things is relatively debilitating. When I'm stuck in similar circumstances, I can rationalize putting needles in my eyes more readily than I can imagine "acting normal."



dontwanttoknow
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29 Mar 2007, 1:57 pm

gobi wrote:
I've spent the majority of my adult life facing the situation you described. I don't think that "smile more" or "ask more questions" or "loosen up" are particularly good pieces of advice for some of us, since the inability to do these things is relatively debilitating. When I'm stuck in similar circumstances, I can rationalize putting needles in my eyes more readily than I can imagine "acting normal."


I think I smile enough--any more would be weird and inappropriate. As far as loosening up, if I could loosen up I would. Whenever there is anything social (and by social I mean anything involving other people, including answering calls as a backup receptionist at work) I freeze up and have even more problems thinking of things to say. I mean, I can answer questions if I know the answer, but I can't think of anything else to say that would be interesting. I do try to ask appropriate questions, but 1. The conversation usually goes so fast I'm not able to get a word in edgewise and 2. I'm afraid to ask most questions for fear they're inappropriate.



MeshGearFox
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29 Mar 2007, 5:54 pm

MrWizard has offered some quality advice, IMHO. For me, loosen up always means not forcing the conversation. If it dies, let it go. Looking relaxed is more important to me than saying much. Nothing wrong with being a man of few words.

What jumps out at me are the words you're using in your posts: afraid, hate, trapped, fear. It's dangerous to allow this train of thought to be the basis of your conscious actions. Over the years, my reactions to AS caused me to withdraw and be fearful of all social situations. I was very negative. I'm a little more positive and better able to take a step back, relax, and be resolute -- don't let the past and fear of the future rule the present. It's a game. Play along as best you can. You don't need to win every time.



Space
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30 Mar 2007, 4:08 am

Are you sure you're an outcast? Maybe you should go start a conversation and ask what they're doing for lunch--- people aren't perfect, and maybe they didn't think to ask you.



dontwanttoknow
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30 Mar 2007, 2:49 pm

Space wrote:
Are you sure you're an outcast? Maybe you should go start a conversation and ask what they're doing for lunch--- people aren't perfect, and maybe they didn't think to ask you.


I know I am. The other accounting members have each others ID's for text messages. One of the other accounting people goes to lunch occasionally with various people and never asks me (she usually brings her lunch though).

Today a group of 5 people including the regular receptionist went and since I'm the backup receptionist, I had to sit at the front desk. And watch them all go. Because I'd mentioned something to the regular receptionist about how I go to lunch early to avoid being rejected, he said something about "Next week we'll get so-and-so to cover the front desk and you can go with us" but I know it's just BS and won't happen. Plus now I feel bad I ever said anything to him about this because he was afraid to ask me if I'd cover for him and he got another person to ask. So yeah, I'm an outcast plus because of my saying something that I shouldn't have they even feel sorry for me and probably will ask me out of pity, not because they want me.

So I'm going to start going to lunch at 11 am now to avoid all this. I h ate going that early because it makes the afternoon seem long, but it's better than having to see what an outcast I am.



MrWizard
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30 Mar 2007, 3:39 pm

Honestly? I think the whole thing is in your head. Your nervousness is probably making everyone else uncomfortable. Its my opinion that if you would calm down and forget about it, start enjoying your life and your lunch and your job, then over time you'll be good to go. Think about this: How long have you known these people, and how long have they known you? Now how long have they known each other?

Friendship is an active thing. You have to be a friend to make them, and no one will approach you if you aren't willing to approach others. In your case the approaching part is already taken care of. Rather than avoiding lunch with them every day and feeling miserable about "having to", just go to lunch with them and don't worry about it.

The key to solving your problem: Stop worrying about it.



dontwanttoknow
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30 Mar 2007, 3:47 pm

MrWizard wrote:
Honestly? I think the whole thing is in your head. Your nervousness is probably making everyone else uncomfortable. Its my opinion that if you would calm down and forget about it, start enjoying your life and your lunch and your job, then over time you'll be good to go. Think about this: How long have you known these people, and how long have they known you? Now how long have they known each other?

Friendship is an active thing. You have to be a friend to make them, and no one will approach you if you aren't willing to approach others. In your case the approaching part is already taken care of. Rather than avoiding lunch with them every day and feeling miserable about "having to", just go to lunch with them and don't worry about it.

The key to solving your problem: Stop worrying about it.


1. Most of them started after I did..there is a lot of turnover in our company. One person has been there 7 years, but everyone else well under one year. A couple of the people who went today started since the end of January. I've been there 8 months.

2. I can't go to lunch with them if not invited. And if the receptionist goes, I have to cover for him. And he will always be invited and I won't. They talked about having one other person cover, but that's not going to last long or go over well with that particular person, and I can't say I blame him because he'd then be in the same position I"m in and I hate it, so why wouldn't he unless he doesn't like them, which could be the case, I'm not sure. Fridays, especially paydays are the worst, and next Friday is a payday so I'm really not looking forward to that. I wish I'd taken a vacation day, but I only have so many and can't take a vacation day every other week!



calandale
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30 Mar 2007, 6:02 pm

Ah, so there is a work related reason that you can't go. Maybe you can solve both issues at once. Bring up that you'd like to go, but having to cover makes it impossible, and whether that duty can be rotated.



dontwanttoknow
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30 Mar 2007, 10:57 pm

calandale wrote:
Ah, so there is a work related reason that you can't go. Maybe you can solve both issues at once. Bring up that you'd like to go, but having to cover makes it impossible, and whether that duty can be rotated.


Yes, this issue of being the backup receptionist just started this week after the previous person quit. It's a good idea...they'd probably rather have the other guy (regular receptitonist) because he's more fun, but maybe someone else who's done the phones before could take the shift every few weeks or once a month or something. I guess I could ask.