Why do people think it is perfectly acceptable to say that

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JakeG
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09 Apr 2007, 6:38 pm

Why do people think it is perfectly acceptable to say that they hate mathematics/find it boring?

This question has bothered me for a while for a couple of different reasons:

Sometimes people have asked me what I do or what I am interested in and when I say mathematics, the answer is monotonously likely to be either 'Oh math; that's so boring', 'Math? I hate it' or 'Oh I hate numbers'

Why does this seem to be a completely reasonable and socially acceptable thing to say rather than something that people would view as ignorant and intolerant? If someone were to say that they were interested in drawing, painting or music etc. people would say 'ah, how creative' or 'that sounds interesting' even if they didn't happen to have interests in those directions themselves whereas with maths, there is no stigma attached in ridiculing people or negating their genuine interest.

The thing that often annoys me the most is that most of the people who are so happy to say that they hate math or find it boring generally don't actually know what math actually is and haven't made any real effort to find out. They don't seem to realise that the so called 'math' you learn at high school is the literary equivalent to spelling tests or tables of grammar and doesn't really give any insight into what math is about and how interesting, exciting and creative it can be. With only that experience to base a judgement of 'boring' on; it is equivalent to saying a book you haven't read is boring because you remember you found learning the alphabet boring in school. I consider myself a fairly creative person and in fact, that is one of the main reasons I am drawn to math because it allows me to use and develop my imagination. Invention and creativity in math is often so far removed from 'the real world' that it requires real imagination not just to invent and create but also (in many cases) to understand and interpret. To me, someone saying that they find something boring or uninteresting when they really have no knowledge about it just comes across as being completely vacuous and asinine. If I come across something that I find boring or uninteresting, I prefer to see this as a deficiency within myself rather than the subject matter itself and endeavour to find out what interests people in the subject and challenge myself to discover its redeeming features. If all else fails, even if I am unable to interest myself in something, I would still not attack it but rather just put it down to a matter of taste and say that although I accept its value, it is just not my kind of thing. I wouldn't be so presumptuous and self-important to call something boring on the basis that I didn't like it.

One of the worst factors of this disease of math-hate is that I even find that people on my degree course have similar attitudes and ridicule me for my interest and enjoyment of the subject. Unfortunately in some ways, they have naively been led to believe that by getting a math degree they will then be able to get any job they like with ease and henceforth are willing to study a subject that they don't really like or try to maintain an interest in for three/four years.

I am not naive enough to expect everyone else to follow the same interests as me (although it would be nicer if more did) but all I really want is for people to be more tolerant and understanding and not think it ok to negate something which is important to me/other people. People don't understand that when they say something like that, I go right off them straight away and nowadays will tend to push the matter with them and take them to task for what I see as an overly negative and unfair way to speak to someone and then they think that I am the bad guy for doing this.

I am sure that much of this stuff must apply to others with different academic/niche interests as well.



Sopho
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09 Apr 2007, 6:46 pm

I sometimes get that with history, probably not as much though. History isn't boring either though :(
Some people on my course are similar to the ones mentioned on your course as well, there's nothing wrong with someone actually having an interest in their subject



Esperanza
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09 Apr 2007, 6:59 pm

I've never thought of it that way before JakeG, but I really see your point. I'm glad I read your post.



SteveK
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09 Apr 2007, 7:01 pm

Jake,

If people say they HATE math, etc... It isn't belittling you or your love for it. Frankly, I have had a hard time with math, etc... At a time, I would have wondered how you could like it, but I have thought about it, and can understand. I would NEVER have berated you for it, discouraged you, etc... I think EVERYONE realizes that todays world couldn't exist without math. MATH tells you how much power you need for electronics, a certain frequency, etc.... MATH tells you how big beams should be, how they should be arranged, and what they should be made of for buildings. MATH tells you how much you can earn, and helps to quantify changes in strategies. So don't berate me for making a comment against math, or saying I find it boring, etc... Realise I respect anyone that DOES have that love.

As for history? Well, I know a lot of history that isn't in the history books, but I never really could figure out why we spend SO much time on some of that. I'll leave it at that. :cry:

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JakeG
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09 Apr 2007, 7:06 pm

Sopho_soph wrote:
Some people on my course are similar to the ones mentioned on your course as well, there's nothing wrong with someone actually having an interest in their subject


Exactly, although I do realise that I am in a different position to many of the people on my course by virtue of the fact that I went to university after having worked for 5 years precisely for the reason that I wanted to be able to spend all day studying my subject rather than because I either a) had been pushed into going to university by parents b) had been put under the impression that by doing a degree I would suddendly become vastly more employable to high paying employers or c) had rich parents to fund me through an easy life so I don't have to get a job for three years.



MrWizard
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09 Apr 2007, 7:19 pm

Actually, I completely agree with you in almost every way. Coincidentially, you and I are quite alike in our love for math. Not just that though, but I also share the attitude that you seem to have about aquiring the understanding of things below the surface, finding out what's to like and what things are about rather than judging it from the cover, so to speak. This attitude is what originally lead me to seek more from math and I've had an intense love for math and history, literature and science ever since. The philosophy has never let me down and I believe I could find enjoyment in almost any subject. I wouldn't be surprise if it was the same case for you.

I appreciate your bringing this topic up, I enjoyed reading it. It's nice to know that I'm not the only eruditic weirdo out there. :]



roygerdodger
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09 Apr 2007, 7:41 pm

I defintely hate math because I don't understand it.



Mitch8817
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09 Apr 2007, 8:07 pm

Indeed, maths sucks. Too structured, ordered and rigid. Black and white, only one answer is acceptable. No room for creativity or exploration, just a sequence of monotonous steps. Reminds me of AS...


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risingphoenix
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09 Apr 2007, 8:12 pm

I think the deep hate towards mathematics of most people has mostly do to with them having no skills for it at all and being tortured with it far too much at (high) school. I also dreaded math at high school and yes, I find it boring too, but that's just because I have no access to it at all. I totally understand that someone who has a real talent for it and will therefore also understand the higher (more interesting?) mathematics will find it interesting and the few times when I got something right I also found my interest to be increasing. And of course one needs creativity for it, how else would one come up with the solutions.
I always found it kind of admirable when people excelled at mathematics, especially because it was a subject so mysterious to me. But I'm sure I'm not the only "math-hater" who sees it that way, and even though few might associate it with creativity or see it as interesting themselves it generally seems to be seen as THE hallmark of intelligence and giftedness, which is after all also not such a bad thing. Having said that I'd just go with William Hazlitt: "Whatever interests, is interesting."

Oh, and on a sidenote about those people who study math or anything else just because they want to earn a lot of money later or because society acknowledges it more or their parents want them to and so on instead of studying what they would really like to, I find that such a silly attitude. It just shows that they care far too much about what everybody else thinks.


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GoatOnFire
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09 Apr 2007, 8:20 pm

Mitch8817 wrote:
Indeed, maths sucks. Too structured, ordered and rigid. Black and white, only one answer is acceptable. No room for creativity or exploration, just a sequence of monotonous steps. Reminds me of AS...


You obviously haven't been exposed to higher level math. I prefered math when it was like the way you described it. It doesn't stay that way. I have a natural talent for some math but I had a terrible high school math teacher. I only kind of understand higher math but that class destroyed my confidence and I have never been able to get interested in it again. :cry:


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9CatMom
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09 Apr 2007, 8:23 pm

I am impressed by people who can excel in a certain subject area. People have told me my area of expertise, English, was boring. I happened to enjoy it. I wish that I had been better at math. I used to do well in math until I lost interest because of poor teaching methods. I believe that, with better teaching, I would have done much better.



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09 Apr 2007, 8:41 pm

I think that some people may say it:

1.) Just to say something. They are not math people, and they don't know what else to say. This could be their way of trying to say, "Hey, I don't know what to talk about. Can we change the subject?"

2.) Because they really don't want to talk about math. They might understand math, and can talk it fluently (because, let's admit it, math can be an entirely different language), but really do hate it. They would prefer to find a common interest, or at least something they can talk about it.

3.) It's a bad compliment. "Hey, look at how much smarter you are than me!"

4.) They don't understand it and don't really care about how you feel. There are people like that.

5.) It's the typical, accepted response. There are a lot of people who don't like math, and it's not a very popular topic (at least in most places).

I don't think people are dilberately trying to hurt your feelings. It just comes out wrong. I know what you mean though, I get the same responses in writing.


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Mitch8817
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09 Apr 2007, 8:49 pm

GoatOnFire wrote:
Mitch8817 wrote:
Indeed, maths sucks. Too structured, ordered and rigid. Black and white, only one answer is acceptable. No room for creativity or exploration, just a sequence of monotonous steps. Reminds me of AS...


You obviously haven't been exposed to higher level math. I prefered math when it was like the way you described it. It doesn't stay that way. I have a natural talent for some math but I had a terrible high school math teacher. I only kind of understand higher math but that class destroyed my confidence and I have never been able to get interested in it again. :cry:


No, no I have. Finished Year 12 and chose the harder maths as one of my units. Next semester we're doing statistical methods at Uni. What features of higher level maths aren't I aware of that make it good?


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PseudointellectualHorse
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09 Apr 2007, 9:05 pm

I suppose most of us are used to not fitting in. This is just another outsider manifestation.

Aside from personal issues, there's a sort of anti-intellectual trend in the popular culture. The touchy-feely stuff is favored over the more rigorous disciplines. I guess we need all kinds, both rocket scientists and artists. Perhaps people feel less threatened by art in that anyone can claim to be an artist, whether they've developed any talent or not. On the other hand, a rocket scientist had better be able to launch a rocket, or he'll be drummed out of the field. This kind of objective validation -- and the inherent risk that we might fall short -- runs counter to the popular goal of giving everyone their fair share of self-esteem.



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09 Apr 2007, 10:04 pm

I think Ladycass has it right.

I don't think it's polite to tell someone their subject is boring though. It bugs me when people tell me they hate what I am minoring in, though I can understand it, but I'm sure I get it a lot less for English than you do for math! I personally am terrible at math---I cannot understand the most basic concepts---but I also realize that the concepts and applications have a great potential to be fascinating if I could understand them--I think for instance of quantum physics, which is a study I am very interested in conceptually, and I am sure if I understood the math it would be a lot of fun because it actually applies to a subject I think is fun. So I am careful not to tell people that are into math that I hate math. Generally I tell them something like I think it is impressive you do math becuase I am not good at it and I wish I was.

Also it kindof bugs me that it seems like almost everyone is like "oh I am just so bad at math" or something. Seriously. I am honestly bad at math. You people that love to tell everyone how bad you are at it and then tell me about all you C's in calculus, please---I barely passed algebra part one as a senior in high school taking it with freshmen.



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09 Apr 2007, 10:29 pm

I'm one of those who had a hard time understanding math, where I struggled in both algebra and geometry. I ended up being the only senior in my geometry class, as it took me an extra year of taking algebra to be able to get a C-. The ammount of work I put in math would have gotten me an A in just about any other class. My strongest areas were in English and history, and I also participated in both the debate team and the band, playing 2 instruments.

Either way, it's not polite to tell someone that math or any other subject is boring because you don't understand it. Even though I struggled with math, I would never criticize someone who loves that subject. I still love science, even if I don't quite understand the math behind it.


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