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Has communism done wrong to millions of people?
Yes 64%  64%  [ 29 ]
No 20%  20%  [ 9 ]
Maybe 16%  16%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 45

Awesomelyglorious
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30 Sep 2007, 4:14 pm

RedHanrahan wrote:
Has communism done wrong to millions of people?
Well, attempts to practice communism have.

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It was preceded by an even more ludicrous one but for some reason that was edited ??
Perhaps it is you who does not understand the item under discussion? or are you too 'awesomely glorious' to contemplate that?
I am going under the most pragmatic way to discuss this matter. If we argue that communism is an abstract then frankly we have avoided the entire reason for the thread.

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In reality there is no point in this exchange because every point either of us makes will be countered by some detail the merits of which will come down to our selective attachment to subjective values and we will both just get stroppy and as you pinko-hating-raghead-shootin'-god fearin' yanks are all a bit too hot headed these days to want to engage with you can have your cheap victory now, keep the ball I can get another, I'm of home now, bye... have fun....

Ok, that is the same in most exchanges on some level, the difference in this exchange is that there are logical premises and such that can be examined. Yes, of course, fear my yankness. :roll: I'll take victory wherever I can get it though.



Elemental
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06 Oct 2007, 7:43 am

agmoie wrote:
Communism is a evil which is responsible for the torture,slave labour and deaths of tens of millions of people.Anyone with Asperger`s who advocates communism must hate themselves because people who did not `fit in` and people who were different were usually sent to the labour/death camps by the commies..


You're talking about Stalinism (or Maoism), not communism. Easy mistake to make though.

calandale wrote:
Why set different questions in the poll,
and the topic. There's nothing inherently
wrong with much of the ideals of communism
AND it's wronged millions of people.


I agree with that, but ultimately, a system of government needs to work in practice. You can't really say "it would work without bad leaders!" or the like--every system of government has to contend with bad leaders and other pressures. The communist system in Russia deliberately removed checks and balances to the authority of leaders, where loyalty to the party was paramount. If perfect Communism cannot be implemented in the world without becoming corrupt and compromising it's ideals, then it can't really be used, regardless of how great it is in theory. Anarchism has much the same problems for me.

skafather84 wrote:
the hardest part about communism is filtrating not only what's good and what's bad about it but also what's propaganda and what isn't.


well..when you're from then united states, there's a lot of propaganda, anyways.


I suspect one of the lingering legacies of the Cold War to the US is a reflexive dislike of anything even faintly Communist in appearance, that has led to suspicion of socialism even when it would be a largely good thing (healthcare, for example).



Awesomelyglorious
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06 Oct 2007, 10:20 am

Elemental wrote:
You're talking about Stalinism (or Maoism), not communism. Easy mistake to make though.
Well, people associate the 2 because they are the most noted systems for attempting this type of society

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I suspect one of the lingering legacies of the Cold War to the US is a reflexive dislike of anything even faintly Communist in appearance, that has led to suspicion of socialism even when it would be a largely good thing (healthcare, for example).

Well, I don't think so, actually a lot of our programs are faintly communist, if we were as you suggested then we would have scrapped all of our New Deal programs and we would have never put price controls on gas and oil, and all sorts of other measures. We have done those things though, I think really part of issue is also that we are more ideologically pro-market despite how much we intrude upon it, as before the New Deal, the idea that government should stay small and out of the way was pretty common and many of our intellectuals have been influenced by market ideas or have been the ones to create them. I dunno, I oppose socialism in almost all things though and usually I back up my opinions so I might disagree with the idea that socialism would be a good idea.