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Has communism done wrong to millions of people?
Yes 64%  64%  [ 29 ]
No 20%  20%  [ 9 ]
Maybe 16%  16%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 45

iamnotaparakeet
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25 Sep 2007, 9:57 am

Or only bad when it is controlled by the wrong people?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyUu-8nbd58[/youtube]



calandale
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25 Sep 2007, 10:13 am

Why set different questions in the poll,
and the topic. There's nothing inherently
wrong with much of the ideals of communism
AND it's wronged millions of people.

Of course, ANY form of government is terrible
in practice.



iamnotaparakeet
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25 Sep 2007, 10:39 am

calandale wrote:
Why set different questions in the poll,
and the topic. There's nothing inherently
wrong with much of the ideals of communism
AND it's wronged millions of people.

Of course, ANY form of government is terrible
in practice.


That's true.



Trigger11
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25 Sep 2007, 11:16 am

True Communism, as Karl Marx defined it, is intended to be a utopian society where everyone works for the common good and the government provides for the needs of the people. What is actually practiced is not Communism, so the question is not valid. There has yet to be a true Communist state.

Ask the same question about Capitalism and I will emphatically answer YES!


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iamnotaparakeet
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25 Sep 2007, 12:18 pm

Kinda the difference between causing people to die from living off welfare and social security and, oh say, outright murder?



monty
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25 Sep 2007, 12:24 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Kinda the difference between causing people to die from living off welfare and social security and, oh say, outright murder?


My sister is severely handicapped and lives off of social security. It isn't causing her to die. To the contrary. I think it is rather better than pure free-market capitalism, which probably would have allowed her to die by now.



iamnotaparakeet
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25 Sep 2007, 12:30 pm

Pure capitalism is the old fashioned Oligarchy dressed up in the Emperor's new clothes.



Aspie_Chav
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25 Sep 2007, 4:49 pm

Comunism is week because it does not encourage compentition.

So the saying communism is good on paper but doen't work in reality is incurrect.



Cyanide
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25 Sep 2007, 6:48 pm

The world isn't ready for Communism.
Communism needs a closely-knit society that is similar in language and ethnicity where part of their culture is to help one's fellow countrymen...and of course a good work ethic. Prohibiting all immigrants would probably help too.



Awesomelyglorious
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25 Sep 2007, 8:59 pm

Communism is a bad idea. It relies upon a common good that is easily found and people who will easily agree to this good, the common good is not easily found due to the conflicts in desires and people will disagree to serve this good out of servitude of their own good.

Cyanide wrote:
The world isn't ready for Communism.
Communism needs a closely-knit society that is similar in language and ethnicity where part of their culture is to help one's fellow countrymen...and of course a good work ethic. Prohibiting all immigrants would probably help too.

I agree with that, but your ideas sound very anti-liberal and almost fascist. What I think your ideas would breed is a totalitarian state where conformity is maintained through terror and murder. Not only that but I think that the entire ideal maintained through this manner would result in a structure that would lead to corruption and disintegration of the original ideal.
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Pure capitalism is the old fashioned Oligarchy dressed up in the Emperor's new clothes.

Not really, whether or not it will end up being oligarchical is another question, but pure capitalism didn't maintain the old oligarchy, but as even Marx noted, it created a new oligarchy. In truth, capitalism is the most dynamic system human beings have allowed and it is also the most freedom seeking. Paternalism and class relations were the dominant ways of life before capitalism and after, it fell more to individualistic calculations. Now, I am not going to compare the highly capitalist nations to the more social market nations, such would be ridiculous as so much would be taken out of context.
Trigger11 wrote:
True Communism, as Karl Marx defined it, is intended to be a utopian society where everyone works for the common good and the government provides for the needs of the people. What is actually practiced is not Communism, so the question is not valid. There has yet to be a true Communist state.

Ask the same question about Capitalism and I will emphatically answer YES!

The only issue with that matter is that there is no reason to believe that there will ever be a true Communist state. Marxian predictions do not seem to necessarily be valid, the business cycle for example is much calmer now than in the past whereas Marx predicted greater fluctuations, imperialism is often found to be an act to enrich selected individuals rather than a necessary part of capitalism, the welfare of people at the bottom tends to be increasing rather than declining, and I believe if I remember correctly, the amount of monopolization in the economy is relatively constant.

Really though, I would think that if you were truly a Marxian, you wouldn't hold capitalism as necessarily so evil either. Marx actually does laud it for its creative power and even though it is viewed from a Marxian view as a temporary evil, it is also seen as necessary. One cannot be emphatic in denouncing what one regards as a necessary evil.



calandale
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25 Sep 2007, 9:02 pm

Aspie_Chav wrote:
Comunism is week because it does not encourage compentition.


The market is based on competition. But competition
is not the sole driving force. There are things like
compassion, and duty which can take it's place.
They have in the past.



greenblue
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25 Sep 2007, 11:11 pm

I think money should be abolished.


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skafather84
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25 Sep 2007, 11:22 pm

the hardest part about communism is filtrating not only what's good and what's bad about it but also what's propaganda and what isn't.


well..when you're from then united states, there's a lot of propaganda, anyways.



calandale
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25 Sep 2007, 11:33 pm

greenblue wrote:
I think money should be abolished.


I think humans should be abolished.



Sand
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26 Sep 2007, 12:40 am

Although the ideals of communism seem irrefutably admirable all communist regimes so far have been totalitarian and frequently brutal so I have doubts that a beneficent communist government can exist. The only thing in its favor is the very negative aspects of other types of regimes.



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26 Sep 2007, 1:07 am

Aspie_Chav wrote:
Comunism is week because it does not encourage compentition.


So what? Who or what's to say competition is necessary, or even beneficial?