Page 2 of 3 [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Fraya
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,337

10 Oct 2007, 7:00 pm

Quote:
When it's quite obvious that NTs are better at creating warm loving environments, at seeing and accepting people the way they are , at having relationships that don't unavoidably involve fixed/limited roles of protecter/protected etc!
Why pretend that ASD only produces goodguys? ASD is a potent drive to extremism. All that dualist/pure logic/everything in boxes thinking!
I don't advocate the eugenics approach. But I'm getting sick at hearing the argument that the reason against it is how lovely ASDers are!! !! !!


Isn't categorizing ASDs as either good or bad also being dualist though?

No its not perfect but neither is being "normal".

Better at creating warm loving environments? Then why has nearly every serial killer ever been NT? The environment created by ASD parents may not be suitable for NTs but its perfect for ASD children, don't you think?

As for seeing and accepting people the way they are we wouldn't even be having this discussion if it were possible for them to understand and accept us. Their solution is "curing" and "prevention" of people like us.

With roles in relationships not all NT relationships are healthy.. in fact very few of them are. Just because the problems are more easily identified in an ASD relationship doesn't mean its any more common.

ASDs may cause people to lean towards extremist ideas but that doesn't mean they will act on those ideas in violent and dangerous ways as NTs are prone to do.

Your a case of extremism as well. You hate your life, blame your condition and have taken up the extreme viewpoint that it is a disease that must be eradicated. That those of us who are happy being the way we are must be delusional.


_________________
One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all
-----------
"White Rabbit" - Jefferson Airplane


GypsysOdyssey
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 3 Oct 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 71

10 Oct 2007, 7:12 pm

Reading this thread has just given me another reason to be pro-life: to keep variety in the human race!

Seriously though, I think it's horrible that some people are so worried about preventing more ASD people from being born when there's much worse diseases out there like AIDS that really should be cured and prevented.

Prioritize, people!


_________________
Just Forget The Words And Sing Along,
@-->--- Gypsy ---<--@


geek
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 723
Location: Elsewhere

10 Oct 2007, 8:14 pm

I am in favor of trying to understand reality, including the genetics of autism.

It is information that has potential for horrible abuse, but that is a common problem in science. I have no doubt that there are people who would like to see the data become part of a eugenics program, but do not accept that they will succeed. Aside from the huge ethical questions, there is the distinct possibility that the genes linked to autism (there appear to be a number of them) are so widespread that eliminating them would mean exterminating a significant percentage of the human race. And that is not going to fly.

So I'll worry about it when, and if, attempts at abusing the data begin.



ouinon
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,939
Location: Europe

11 Oct 2007, 2:39 am

Fraya wrote:
Isn't categorizing ASDs as either good or bad also being dualist though?

<<<<REPLY 8) Well, perhaps that's because I suffer from an autistic spectrum disorder and seem most unfortunately to have an an unavoidable tendency to think that way (dualist,black-and-white) ,that prevents me from enjoying many aspects of human interaction and from functioning very well in work environments!! >>>>

No its not perfect but neither is being "normal".

<<<<REPLY 8) But at least NTs don't expect themselves or life ( or other people,which is why they can be so restful to be with!!) to be perfect,logical or rationally organised ; they don't throw wobblies cos someone doesn't turn up at exactly the time they said etc etc etc!

Better at creating warm loving environments? Then why has nearly every serial killer ever been NT?

<<<<REPLY 8) How many people out of the NT population does that add up to?

The environment created by ASD parents may not be suitable for NTs but it's perfect for ASD children, don't you think?

<<<<REPLY 8) Nope, because I just encourage my son in exactly all the cognitive bad habits which the latest and effective (if unfortunately too rare)therapies would spend years training him out of! Precisely because of my ASD I had immense difficulty understanding him in first months, in relating to him;was in fact exactly the sort of mother who increases the cognitive difficulties her (perhaps) ASD child is going to have!!>>>>

As for seeing and accepting people the way they are we wouldn't even be having this discussion if it were possible for them to understand and accept us. Their solution is "curing" and "prevention" of people like us.

<<<<REPLY 8) Now that some of them are realising that we are not just lazy, selfish, difficult, deliberately obtuse etc , they seem to be as anxious as I am to find out what causes this problem.>>>>

With roles in relationships not all NT relationships are healthy.. in fact very few of them are.

<<<<REPLY 8O Excuse me? ! !! ( extremist? not me!!)

ASDs may cause people to lean towards extremist ideas but that doesn't mean they will act on those ideas in violent and dangerous ways as NTs are prone to do.

<<<<REPLY 8) I'm the only person that I know who has hit a partner on several occasions, thrown liquids onto electrical devices (because they happened to be there),and plates and glass across rooms among other things . On alcohol fueled freedom from the worst social handicaps have ridden with and encouraged other drunk drivers to drive dangerously, etc etc And writing books full of extremist ideas can be dangerous too.etc.>>>>

You're a case of extremism as well. You hate your life, blame your condition and have taken up the extreme viewpoint that it is a disease that must be eradicated. That those of us who are happy being the way we are must be delusional.

<<<<REPLY 8) There you have it ; I am a classic case of higher functional ASD. But at least I recognise that it is not a super way to be!! !!
As already stated twice, I am not advocating eugenics!! !!
But I do wish people would stop arguing against it on the basis that ASD sufferers are wonderful people. As if it would be alright to kill off people who weren't very nice.



Last edited by ouinon on 11 Oct 2007, 3:51 am, edited 4 times in total.

Unknown_Quantity
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 483
Location: Australia

11 Oct 2007, 2:59 am

Eugenics. Great for getting a new breed of dog or making the perfect milking cows, but doesn't work when applied to humans.

Unless you think humans should be treated like animals or should have their rights taken away from them (for their own good or not), eugenics is a terrible and insidious way to direct the human race. And if you feel you're in a position to dictate that some humans aren't allowed to procreate because they're inferior... well then you're the one who's less than human.

It doesn't matter if you're trying to get rid of Aspies, Gypsies or Jewsies, eugenics is screwsies.


_________________
IN GIRVM IMVS NOCTE ET CONSVMIMVR IGNI


Zwerfbeertje
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 6 Sep 2007
Age: 123
Gender: Male
Posts: 362

11 Oct 2007, 9:18 am

ouinon wrote:
But I do wish people would stop arguing against it on the basis that ASD sufferers are wonderful people. As if it would be alright to kill off people who weren't very nice.


But we are wonderful people, with our individual strengths and weaknesses, just as NT's are wonderful people, with their individual strengths and weaknesses.



Angelus-Mortis
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 8 Oct 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 438
Location: Canada, Toronto

11 Oct 2007, 10:13 am

Paranoid people are as amusing as normal people in society, sometimes. You do realize that this study could only succeed if autism could not occur environmentally. Can it?


_________________
231st Anniversary Dedication to Carl Friedrich Gauss:
http://angelustenebrae.livejournal.com/15848.html

Arbitraris id veneficium quod te ludificat. Arbitror id formam quod intellego.

Ignorationi est non medicina.


Khalaris
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 245
Location: Nuremberg, Germany

11 Oct 2007, 10:27 am

GypsysOdyssey wrote:
Reading this thread has just given me another reason to be pro-life: to keep variety in the human race!

Seriously though, I think it's horrible that some people are so worried about preventing more ASD people from being born when there's much worse diseases out there like AIDS that really should be cured and prevented.

Prioritize, people!



Exactly! You're saying (or rather - typing) what I'm thinking but can't put into words.



ProfessorX
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Feb 2007
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,795

11 Oct 2007, 1:37 pm

Personally, I don't feel any person in the autistic spectrum should be looked at as being a test rat to murder just, cause those of us, act in an unorthodoxical manner.. Reading the previous post makes me think to the time of Hitler and how he wanted to exterminate the Jewish people. Well, I don't wish to be exterminated nor, would I want any other fellow autistic feel as, if he/she is a sub-human species.. That's my thoughts!!



Zarathustra
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2007
Age: 117
Gender: Male
Posts: 574
Location: In orbit

11 Oct 2007, 1:45 pm

Unknown_Quantity wrote:
Eugenics. Great for getting a new breed of dog or making the perfect milking cows, but doesn't work when applied to humans.

Unless you think humans should be treated like animals or should have their rights taken away from them (for their own good or not), eugenics is a terrible and insidious way to direct the human race. And if you feel you're in a position to dictate that some humans aren't allowed to procreate because they're inferior... well then you're the one who's less than human.

It doesn't matter if you're trying to get rid of Aspies, Gypsies or Jewsies, eugenics is screwsies.
WHOA! BULLSEYE! I'm a jewish, gypsy, Aspie! My Butt' on the line BIG TIME' See now, why I'm so concernd about EUGENICS?


_________________
"No matter what the facts are, only the Truth matters"


criss
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 507
Location: London

12 Oct 2007, 3:11 am

ZARATHUSTRA wrote:
criss wrote:
are you involved in any non-violent resistance or any type of action plan ?
WHOA! U A FED?


no i'm not a fed..I am an anarchist whose been involved in non-violent struggle for many years, but I am 'FED' UP with activists who can't contain their anger or their egos, which I feel you would be wise to reflect on, if you wish to attract people to any cause.


_________________
www.chrisgoodchild.com

"We are here on earth for a little space to learn to bear the beams of love." (William Blake)

Thank God for science, but feed me poetry please, as I am one that desires the meal & not the menu. (My own)