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OregonBecky
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10 Oct 2007, 4:18 pm

I have a theory about autism, that not all the wild animal genes in autistic people are turned off. A raccoon could be just as smart as a dog but the raccoon has more trouble being domesticated because of wild animal inputs interfering with any philasophical thoughts the raccoon might want to persue.

We all needed those hyper aware genes to survive in the past but now most NT people and dogs stopped using those genes. Just my theory.


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Joybob
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10 Oct 2007, 4:21 pm

Noa wrote:
It appears that your capslock key is on. Please correct this.


He also seems to have his Troll key pressed.



Zarathustra
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10 Oct 2007, 4:27 pm

edal wrote:
Eugenics can mean a number of things, some of them good. I know that I have AS but I also carry the gene for cystic fibrosis. I've therefore made the decision not to have kids and therefore played my part in the elimination of this horrible disease. If every adult who carries the CF gene made the same decision as me the disease would be wiped off the planet in two generations.

What they are thinking of doing is bad but please don't tar all eugenics activity with the same brush.

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That's a heavy load to carry. I take what you say seriously and will keep it in mind. Best Wishes. ZARATHUSTRA


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AnnabelLee
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10 Oct 2007, 4:31 pm

Fedaykin wrote:
It should be noted that the research into finding genes causing ASD hasn't gotten very far - I think a large part of the problem is that you can't diagnose every person with 100% certainty, and that it might consist of several genetic components. The other week when I was reading the Schizophrenia bulletin at the library, I heard they've pretty much given up on finding genes responsible for this condition. And since ASD is pretty similar to schizophrenia, I don't think they'll get very far on this either, though perhaps it will be a little easier since ASD's are there from birth and the actual condition isn't caused by the environment.

They won't be able to "cure" anything in a very long time, but what saddens me is that they're getting our children started on so many drugs, we're almost at the point where psychiatry feels you require medication simply for having an ASD - pharmaceutical companies sure are pushing for this. These companies are messing up everyone's health with their drugs.


The issue is mainly that some countries are not sharing and others are being unaccpting of information learned through research. For example, Japan's research is amazing. However, American doctors essentially ignore their work! This is disturbing. I read their research for teaching emotions and speech in severely autistic children then insisted the people working with my son read it. He was deemed severe and I was told he would probably never speak or show any emotions other than fear and anger. Well, it is 2 years later. He is speaking at the level of a 3 year old (he is 5) and he allows and shows love and affection (awkwardly but I'll take it!) as well as some compassion. I constantly check what they are doing.

They have found 4 separate genes that, when things are just "right", autism occurs. Here is another piece of info. Did you know that if a mother suffers postpartum depression, she does not (can not) properly show emotions to her baby. The baby is "reading" mom. If this condition is left unchecked for more than a few months, the infant does not learn things like compassion, empathy, or sympathy and most develop many anti-social behaviors that get worse as time goes on. With the drastic increase in postpartum depression, they are looking at the correlation between this depression and the occurances of autism in these babies. It is unreal the correlation. It is possible these babies aren't "true" autistics, because a baby without the proper emotional bonding will do things like rocking to comfort themselves, be emotionally and socially impaired, and have many other similar symptoms. This is something to watch...maybe there isn't an increase in autism as high as thought...maybe they are combining more than one disorder. RAD can look a lot like autism to an eye that isn't properly trained in autism.


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Zarathustra
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10 Oct 2007, 4:37 pm

Joybob wrote:
Noa wrote:
It appears that your capslock key is on. Please correct this.


He also seems to have his Troll key pressed.
CAPS LOCK! i'm on a mobile fone, in the middle of no-where. trade u 14 rabbit skins and a bucket of Eels for a keyboard. U guys got mains electric up there? Bet u got TV too. Whats happening in the Simpsons?


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Joybob
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10 Oct 2007, 4:39 pm

edal wrote:
Eugenics can mean a number of things, some of them good. I know that I have AS but I also carry the gene for cystic fibrosis. I've therefore made the decision not to have kids and therefore played my part in the elimination of this horrible disease. If every adult who carries the CF gene made the same decision as me the disease would be wiped off the planet in two generations.

What they are thinking of doing is bad but please don't tar all eugenics activity with the same brush.

Ed Almos


High five.

But voluntary eugenics can only go so far. The 'idiocracy' argument, is that only smart or responsible people will make the right decision and stop having children, leaving the genetically inferior to replace them. If we're going to go down this path we have to do it right. If AS will be screened for, then so should cancer, mental retardation, heart disease, predisposition to violence, etc. For this to be moral then the benefits have to outweigh the costs. We should only allow this if we can show that eugenics will lead to the improvement of the human race.



Noa
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10 Oct 2007, 4:41 pm

Now, see, that's much better. No capslock, and you're actually being witty this time. I like the new direction this thread is taking.



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10 Oct 2007, 4:45 pm

I'm afraid that people will just use it to begin breeding the "perfect" baby, or the government will use it to breed the "perfect" soldiers. I think it is immoral to get the genetics of a baby just to see whether it's worth keeping. That is despicable in my opinion. Every child deserves a chance to live in my opinion. Using it to "correct" dangerous genetic issues like Muscular Dystrophy and other deadly ones is one thing. Correcting AS or ADHD (which is coming) is not.


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Zarathustra
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10 Oct 2007, 4:50 pm

Noa wrote:
Now, see, that's much better. No capslock, and you're actually being witty this time. I like the new direction this thread is taking.
Newbie. (if u didnt guess). we have trolls down by the river too. That's why i have 2 pit bulls and a felling axe. Troll hunting can be an exhilirating and rewarding past-time. Take 1 axe and your best black hat...


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wrongthinking
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10 Oct 2007, 5:08 pm

behavioral conditions are hard to catch until they fall noticeably out of the social norm. With the internet, text messaging, computers, it is becoming easier for those not good at socializing to be successfull. Mild Asperger's can often find niches in these areas while never being diagnosed. It won't go away.


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krex
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10 Oct 2007, 5:11 pm

A Brave New World,indeed.

You cant make good worker drones with out a little more alcohol in the mix.Now we have genetics,new science but the same ending of the story.Worker bees do not rebel against the queen.They do not question her right to their labor or ask what's in it for them.They work.This is just one more part f the gestalt of our times(a reinactment of a play that has repeated through out history),difference now is technology to take the next step(We are already doing it with mass media and global economy.

Think I'm being paranoid.......?Keep thinking it.The devils best trick is convincing people that he doesnt really exist.(I dont mean that in a religious context but as a symbol of.......?)


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Tempy
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10 Oct 2007, 5:19 pm

Zwerfbeertje wrote:
ouinon wrote:
... but I do hope that could find some way to reduce frequence and severity of ASDs in society


Some tolerance within society for the limitations and some respect for the strengths would go a long way.

Quote:
... cos I feel as if have brain damage, do not appreciate at all being disabled and the isolation it causes.


You wouldn't have existed had a eugenetic program existed before you were born

Quote:
... or could ASD in fact account for some of the worst black-and-white dichotomous thinkers of all time, some of the most extremist religious leaders ...


Nah, leadership would require excellent social and networking skills, not really a common ASD trait.


I agree with that. I think yes a cure would be nice, I mean; but understanding and resources for autistis are so important, and usually ignored. Phisicians who need to instruct parents that autism is not the end of the world for their kid.

Quote:
I'm afraid that people will just use it to begin breeding the "perfect" baby, or the government will use it to breed the "perfect" soldiers. I think it is immoral to get the genetics of a baby just to see whether it's worth keeping. That is despicable in my opinion. Every child deserves a chance to live in my opinion. Using it to "correct" dangerous genetic issues like Muscular Dystrophy and other deadly ones is one thing. Correcting AS or ADHD (which is coming) is not.



lelia
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10 Oct 2007, 5:43 pm

Trying to "breed" perfect soldiers is absolutely not cost effective.



ouinon
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10 Oct 2007, 5:44 pm

Zwerfbeertje wrote:
Quote:
... or could ASD in fact account for some of the worst black-and-white dichotomous thinkers of all time, some of the most extremist religious leaders ...


Nah, leadership would require excellent social and networking skills, not really a common ASD trait.


Not true; just need one close friend who believes in your rightness , a bit of alcohol and lots of bread and cheese and you can be well on way to manic grandiosity with more and more people supporting you all the way!! !! Some good rousing black-and-white table-thumping speeches, some completely onesided and simplistic jet propelled (and well supported by all the right facts in history of humanity to support the argument) sessions on a soapbox or two in the right discontented places............;
Apparently ASD does not just mean passive style; it can equally mean very domineering, controlling and organising. Starting off with one or two acolytes that the ASD feels secure enough to protect and to spill all wildest thoughts to and receive masses of positive reinforcement from , it's possible that some of the most appalling leaders of the past and even of cults/sects today are ASD.
And I say this because I am ASD and was glad to read in the article in ASD resources that these behaviours were possible because I've been on that trip , close to takeoff, and while everybody is singing the praises of ASD as this super uber-condition or at least of lovely people I simply couldn't see myself in there. What is it with this romanticisation of ASD , which causes many people to have to stay at home with parents all their lives , and even if they get away to suffer predictably from anxiety and depression because they have such trouble relating to other people or dealing with normal noise levels?
Why do so many people on here pretend that it's something positive? What is it with this sentimental delusion? When it's quite obvious that NTs are better at creating warm loving environments, at seeing and accepting people the way they are , at having relationships that don't unavoidably involve fixed/limited roles of protecter/protected etc!
Why pretend that ASD only produces goodguys? ASD is a potent drive to extremism. All that dualist/pure logic/everything in boxes thinking!
I don't advocate the eugenics approach. But I'm getting sick at hearing the argument that the reason against it is how lovely ASDers are!! !! !!



Last edited by ouinon on 11 Oct 2007, 3:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

Joybob
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10 Oct 2007, 6:00 pm

lelia wrote:
Trying to "breed" perfect soldiers is absolutely not cost effective.


It'd be a lot easier to clone genetically modified bears to fight our wars for us; as they are godless killing machines.



Fraya
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10 Oct 2007, 7:00 pm

Quote:
When it's quite obvious that NTs are better at creating warm loving environments, at seeing and accepting people the way they are , at having relationships that don't unavoidably involve fixed/limited roles of protecter/protected etc!
Why pretend that ASD only produces goodguys? ASD is a potent drive to extremism. All that dualist/pure logic/everything in boxes thinking!
I don't advocate the eugenics approach. But I'm getting sick at hearing the argument that the reason against it is how lovely ASDers are!! !! !!


Isn't categorizing ASDs as either good or bad also being dualist though?

No its not perfect but neither is being "normal".

Better at creating warm loving environments? Then why has nearly every serial killer ever been NT? The environment created by ASD parents may not be suitable for NTs but its perfect for ASD children, don't you think?

As for seeing and accepting people the way they are we wouldn't even be having this discussion if it were possible for them to understand and accept us. Their solution is "curing" and "prevention" of people like us.

With roles in relationships not all NT relationships are healthy.. in fact very few of them are. Just because the problems are more easily identified in an ASD relationship doesn't mean its any more common.

ASDs may cause people to lean towards extremist ideas but that doesn't mean they will act on those ideas in violent and dangerous ways as NTs are prone to do.

Your a case of extremism as well. You hate your life, blame your condition and have taken up the extreme viewpoint that it is a disease that must be eradicated. That those of us who are happy being the way we are must be delusional.


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