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lau
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25 Oct 2007, 5:21 pm

wrongthinking wrote:
lau-
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Although I haven't used it, Piet looks good if you like graphics.


8O

THAT'S NUTZ!

No... Nutz Sparkling Beverages is a line of discontinued sparkling sodas. It was produced by Nutz Beverages Inc. around the year 2000 and came in several flavors, including peanut, pistachio, hazelnut and banana nut. The soda has been featured on both The Daily Show and The Colbert Report.

There is "Nutz 'n Boltz v3.01 for PowerBASIC":
Quote:
This collection of libraries covers string handling, text mode, SCREEN 12, and more. There is pop-up help and demo code for all routines and many text files with tips, tricks & expanded discussion on the routines.

but that isn't a whole programming language, just some library stuff.


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gamefreak
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25 Oct 2007, 6:08 pm

May i suggest Multimedia Fusion for game programming and Turbo Pascal for programing.



lau
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25 Oct 2007, 7:24 pm

gamefreak wrote:
May i suggest Multimedia Fusion for game programming and Turbo Pascal for programing.


Clickteam seem very coy about it - what is the price of Multimedia Fusion?

Borland will let you have ancient versions of Turbo Pascal for free, but why would you want antiquated, unsupported software? Maybe for historical interest, I guess. Delphi I liked (and bought), but far better now would be C#/mono, for free.


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jread
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27 Oct 2007, 2:49 am

My suggestion: take a course. Check out a local community college and try to find an "Intro. to Programming" course. I found this very helpful when I first started because you have it presented to you in a structured way. Also, you will be given programming assignments that you have to complete, with instructions on what you are trying to accomplish with your program. I found this helpful as it's hard for me to just "think up" a program to write. Do this first course, then go from there. I ended up taking many more programming courses and am now in a "Data Structures and Algorithms" course. Data Structures/Algorithms is a very difficult subject and has caused me a ton of frustration, but I'm also a much better programmer because of it.

As for languages/environments, I would highly recommend starting in C# or VB.NET as they are in huge demand today. You can download the "express" versions for FREE off Microsoft's website and get started. The visual aspect of the development environment is very helpful as you an drag/drop controls onto your forms, then add code in the background. It's quite easy to start off with some simple programs and see instant results (which is motivating and pushes you to learn more).



cavac
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28 Oct 2007, 12:46 pm

wrongthinking wrote:

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Why BASIC, anyway. There are more modern languages with very good books and tutorials. I personally recommend learning perl.


It is commonly recommended?(picture sheepish shrug)


Well, as there are so many different languages out there, many people (including me) will recommend the one they like best. But perl is quite easy to learn.

wrongthinking wrote:
Is there a cheap (or preferably free) way to learn it?


Well, you can learn (nearly) every programming language by installing a free tool and reading tutorials on the 'net. But, at least in for me, having some books around almost always makes it easier, 'cause you don't have to change between windows that much.

Anyway, define "a free way to learn". Even if you got all the tools and literature for free, you still have to invest a good chunk of your spare time.

wrongthinking wrote:
zebedee suggested trying a different language in case I just have a problem with that one.


Why not? No programming language is perfect for everything and everyone. Try out a few things, see if you like the syntax and the concepts behing the languages, see what you like best and then invest a few dollars into a one or two solid beginners books.

There's one thing i didn't mention before: Not to discourage you, but everyone has different talents. If you feel your programming skills just wont appear, maybe you don't have the talent (but *never* give up, if it means something to you, cause it still can be fun!). I seem to have that with music: For years, I've been trying to learn to play the guitar, although my musical talents appear to be just... absent. While i probably never get a single song sound good, it's still quite fun to fiddle around and make some noise :-)



cavac
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28 Oct 2007, 12:52 pm

jread wrote:
As for languages/environments, I would highly recommend starting in C# or VB.NET as they are in huge demand today.


If you're based in europe, or want to work here, i do not recommend VB.NET. Most bigger companies see VB.NET as some kind of toy.

Also, if you're wanting a job as software developer or system administrator in a bigger company, i'd start with something that's not too Microsoft-centered, as most of these companies run at least part of their computers on non-Windows operating systems; so cross-plattform programming might be required (Well, there IS the "mono" project, but it's still years away from beeing fit for commercial usage).



lau
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28 Oct 2007, 2:05 pm

cavac wrote:
...(Well, there IS the "mono" project, but it's still years away from beeing fit for commercial usage).

So far as learning a language is concerned, the Mono project has been way ahead of Microsoft for years.

The stumbling block is the fact that the Microsoft compatibility bits are not ECMA/ISO standards (see Mono and Microsoft’s patents).

Microsoft will continue to lock people into using their proprietary (stolen) software with their bully-boy tactics for as long as people let them.

Microsoft do "give away" free software. It's only when you try to seriously use ANY of it that you discover that it is littered with licenses that stop you from doing so, unless you hand over your wallet, again, and again...


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ahayes
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28 Oct 2007, 2:53 pm

I took a CS course and also had an Engineering programming course.

I also took uP and uP II. (microcontrollers courses, you learn assembly and C)



Zwerfbeertje
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28 Oct 2007, 4:30 pm

wrongthinking wrote:
Unfortunately, the things I would like to do are light-years away from any beginning programming.


If you like games, especially RPG's, you could buy Neverwinter Nights (it's getting old and thus cheap) and start building modules. This would include some scripting in a C like language and it might give you a goal, a project to work for.

Many common languages are soooo similar; Basic, Pascal, C, C++, Java ... they all follow the same 'approach'. Prolog is rather different, might be fun to try, as well as SQL, which could be incredibly useful in your job as well.



jread
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29 Oct 2007, 10:46 am

cavac wrote:
jread wrote:
As for languages/environments, I would highly recommend starting in C# or VB.NET as they are in huge demand today.


If you're based in europe, or want to work here, i do not recommend VB.NET. Most bigger companies see VB.NET as some kind of toy.



In the U.S. VB6 and lower were seen in this way, but not VB.NET. It is functionally the same as C#... just a different syntax. It is NOTHING like the old VB incarnations.... much more powerful.



moo_cow
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04 Nov 2007, 3:18 am

I would never encourage anybody to download Warez, but if I did, I would say to go find a programming book from a torrent website.



Fuzzy
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06 Nov 2007, 3:28 am

If you are a different sort of thinker, try PLT-scheme.

*waits for lau to comment on that*



lau
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06 Nov 2007, 7:33 am

PLT Scheme? Yes, I've used LISP. I'm not sure I'd recommend it as a starter language.

However, I just looked at TeachScheme!, which sounds like a commendable project.

One of my favourite languages was Snobol. I never quite got around to inplementing my own version of it.


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funkfisk
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07 Nov 2007, 2:58 pm

wrongthinking wrote:
I am pretty good at using a computer, I have learned some low level network troubleshooting. I learn software in general fast. My meager attempts at learning programming (which I'm interested in and everyone says I would be good at) have only taught me how to handle repeated and miserable failure. :cry:
Every resource I have tried (I have only tried free ones as I haven't the budget to waste) has been useless. (Esp. Microsoft)
I see a lot of step by step walk-troughs (that usually fail) but nothing that actually goes into the theories behind it. So at the end of a successful one, I still know nothing! Is it hopeless?


The path i went was first learning some high-level programming languange like basic or pascal. Then I went into learning how the CPU and such worked (there are good books on that), and started with assembler (machine code), but got tired of it and went to C++/C with alot of inline assembler.

You're not hopeless I guess, using a computer is a good step towards programming it, but, it somehow requires that you get to know the computer :) A great tip is to program something that you want to build; to have a goal with your programming. Like, a simulation of a celluar phone, if you're interested in celluar phones.

Being patient and stubborn also helps :)



lonelyLady
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13 Nov 2007, 9:11 pm

can you recommend one (i.e. a good book)?

funkfisk wrote:
Then I went into learning how the CPU and such worked (there are good books on that),


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CompSciMan
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14 Nov 2007, 9:48 pm

I STRONGLY recommend starting with Java!! ! It's a very dumbed-down version of C++ so you won't have as many hastles trying to get things to work in the beginning. It's easy to learn and easy to use. It's much more relevant than things like Visual Basic. You can learn VB or anything else later on. Learn how to program BEFORE you start using graphics or GUI (Graphical User Interface). Once you learn how to code and then later learn what classes, objects, and pointers are, learning GUI is simple.

Book: "Big Java 6th edition" by Horstmann
Compiler: Eclipse - www.eclipse.org (it's free, awesome compiler, runs on Windows or linux)

After Java, step up to the big leagues ... C++. But first do Java, then some assembly language with a beginners book on computer architecture so you actually get some understanding of what you are telling the computer to do. Most people who program are in the dark (I once was too).

I don't consider things like perl to be programming languages. They are scripting languages with very little power. Their only advantage is to do very simple things very quickly. You don't want to have to write a C++ program just to parse a file and append a word in a few places, or to create a build script. That's what scripting languages are for.