We're SUPPOSED To Lie

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You can tell the truth in a way that doesn't hurt. Or you can let it out at the right time. But you don't have to lie. There is always going to be a viable solution to these problems (ie, irrational people) that don't involve lying. Besides, lying complicates things unnecessarily.

According to the world's foremost authority ...

"Happiness is the best weapon, Truth the most dangerous ..."

---------- Chiranjiva [skrt. for "The Reality"]

Another thought ...

It's interesting that the ancient Vedic imagination predicted there would be an age when falsehood would be predominate. According to their hypotheses, the existance goes through 4 cycles, or epochs. They call these Satya Yuga (Age of Truth), Treta Yuga (Age of Intellectual Development), Dwapara Yuga (sorry, I've forgot the meaning of Dwapara), and Kali Yuga (Age of Who Manifests Time).

According to the hypotheses, early man was more instinctual, as the intellect had not yet developed, so he didn't know how to lie. Lying is negation of truth, which isn't possible without a well developed intellect. The story of "the Forbidden Fruit" symbolizes in the judeo tradition Man's learning to negate the truth, now he knows how to lie, and must now earn his living "by the sweat of his brow" (mind). The Vedic tradition says this transition begins Treta Yuga and that the age is characterised by the world becoming 25% Falsehood/Unrighteousness, 75% Truth.

By Dwapara Yuga the world is said to have become 50/50.

The classical mythology Mahabharata is set during this period, and the bramins of this age never lied and therefore were said to have the power to curse (the only one of the 4 personalities of Man to have this power; could they have been of the tribe of the Aspie?). They were the priestly caste, and it was wise to show them due hospitality less one be cursed (some of the cursed scenes in this tale are somewhat like Harry Potter's worst curse scenes on steroids).

Now Kali Yuga is considered to be the world's present epoch. The world is said to be in a time of "All Lies". This present period is more difficult for aspies IMO; negation of truth being negation of reality has always presented me with a delimma, and I've had many of the same experiences of some others, beginning with one's mother saying "Answer the phone, but if it's so-and-so, say I'm not here" (drove me crazy, parent teaching me not to lie then telling me to lie for HER! Talk about a feeling of schizophrenia!).

So, the poster's topic is certainly timely [understatement]. I wish I felt up to a long screed on this, to me it's centered on my FAVORITE subject (Truth) but maybe later if it lasts long enough. I'm a little under the weather tonite ...

I do subscribe to the theory that "The Truth Shall Set You Free" (The Ancient Knowledge, that is ...

Somewhere, somehow, someone decided to be civilized. I think this was originally meant to be nice to royalty so you were not beheaded. You didn’t want to tell the king his breath smelled like a rats ass, etc.

Reality is, you have to be civil, not honest, at work, with strangers, and to your friend’s friends. I don’t go civically much beyond that, except with elderly family.

So, one day my friend, who recently acquired an additional 40 pounds, shows up to a restaurant for dinner with a group. She asks if I like her new dress. Well, being I saw her from behind and saw back fat coming out from all areas it could escape from her now too small bra and saw chunks of cellulite on the thighs that now bulged out beind her hip ratio, I told her it was a gorgeous dress, but the color did not suit her. She argued that she loved the color (red), etc. I did not want to make her self conscious in front of everyone all night so she wouldn’t enjoy herself. A few days later, I tactfully/nicely that that dress sis not flatter her figure and she should burn it immediately. I never called her fat, I never told her it was so obvious she looked horrible that night; I was just clear that that dress did not suit her. Tact is what matters with honesty. Why embarrass someone?

I tell strangers when they have tp on their shoes, food in their teeth, zippers undone. But I do it discreetly to save them embarrassment. Those ARE NT white lies. Be nice to people in charge (although you are smarter and can run circles around them) and be nice to people you don’t want to embarrass at that moment.

I do not lie to my bf nor my friends, but I find ways to say honest things nicely. It is just nicer. I am too nice. Which is why I get sooooo mad when I read NT rudeness, because there is never a need to be rude. NTs who are rude are insecure and beneath you and need to put you down so they feel better. If you all called them on it, it would put them in their place. But that would be somewhat confrontational for a lot of you.

Someone here also said something that reminded me of a friend who’s mom stroked out and now all her co workers are bugging her to go to a Christmas party. She didn’t want to seem weak and overwhelmed to her co workers, but they bug her and bug her and bug her, trying to “cheer” her up. She doesn’t want to scream that they are shallow and hates them. I suggested she put it on them telling them that every time they invite her they make her feel worse about her mother. Guilt will shut those NT traps.

BTW, I never have to ask my AS bf if something makes my butt look big. He will walk by me and tell me my butt is big when I have put on a few. Refreshing, and not offended…Shale…

We need a world of polite honesty…see Speedy…

Keep it coming, Siuan. I love reading your posts!

Funny isn't it they give the advice of the truth is the best thing to do, lol... But they say you got to lie, but in the end the truth comes out at some point, & ends up been worse than what it was like...

"Why didn't you tell me in the beginning, I would of forgiving you if you did" from watching alot of them talk shows... Or "why you keep it from me..."

In the end really no matter which way you do it, it's wrong you end up having to live with the guilt, while it eats away at you....

or they turn to you & say "did you know about this," then you end up been caught in it....

I think Speedy is right. White lies are generally about tact. Someone gave the example of receiving a bad gift. Saying "thank you" and that you like the gift is jsut a way to show appreciation that they thought of you enough to get you something, that they spent their money on you. No one needs to buy anyone any gift, but people do it as a gesture of affection and it's simply appropriate to respond with some resepct "It's a nice sweater. Thanks." If I were to buy a gift for someone and they were to say "this is god awful sweater. No thanks," I'd feel like hell why'd I even spend the time to go out and spend my hard earned money on you wtf." It's not about showing them that you like it, it's about the gist of gift giving- "someone thought of me and I appreciate that."

So yeah, it's a repsect thing.

The photograher and Britney exmple- well that's a different story. The paprazzi will say ANYTHING to celebs so they can get a picture, then they'll most likely put that pic up for "Worst Dressed" in some magazine or something. Paparazzi lie to get money because that is their career. Sure if someone doesnt look right in some clothes or has brocolli in theri teeth, you are suppsoed to hint at them t wear somethng else. The whole thing is you dont want to make them self concious. People dont want to be unaware, but they dont want to be made in fun of by others either, and they dont want you to make them feel self concious. Who likes that in ANY form, anyway?

I do appreciate when my aspie boyfriend is honest, or when anyone is honest tbh. It's all about how it is said and intentions.

I like to be honest. I also like to be kind. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive. This maintains my self-respect, allows me to be appropriately assertive and lets others know where they stand with me - hence respect and trust me.

I can't stand lying. I highly value openness and honesty.

I hate white lies. By the words of Thumper: If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all.
I don't want someone to lie to me to soften a blow or avoid embarrassment. I want them to use tact and say things in a way that is less harsh, but not a lie. That is the difference between tact and white lies.

[quote=merr]I think Speedy is right. White lies are generally about tact. Someone gave the example of receiving a bad gift. Saying "thank you" and that you like the gift is jsut a way to show appreciation that they thought of you enough to get you something, that they spent their money on you. No one needs to buy anyone any gift, but people do it as a gesture of affection and it's simply appropriate to respond with some resepct "It's a nice sweater. Thanks." If I were to buy a gift for someone and they were to say "this is god awful sweater. No thanks," I'd feel like hell why'd I even spend the time to go out and spend my hard earned money on you wtf." It's not about showing them that you like it, it's about the gist of gift giving- "someone thought of me and I appreciate that." [/quote]

I would not feel saying thank you is a lie, because you are thanking them for thinking enough of you to give you a gift.
But saying "This is a nice sweater, thanks." is a lie. If you don't think it is a nice sweater, then why say so? A simple "thanks for the sweater" or "it looks like a warm sweater, thanks" conveys your appreciation of the gift without resorting to lies.
Knowing when to say your honest opinion or not is use of tact. Being nice to someone does not require telling a lie.