Why do I have a hard time expressing my thoughts coherently?

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Mw99
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19 Jan 2008, 1:05 pm

I don't express myself very well speaking or in writing, but I do marginally better in writing. When I am speaking, I am usually inarticulate and often forget the words I need to use; there are pauses and I often end sentences mid way, I rephrase in my mind the way I want to say things, and start the sentence over again. I find that I often miss my train of thought: I start a sentence coherently but by the time I'm about to land the plane I can't see the runway.

I also have a problem telling stories and holding the attention of the listener. I'm currently trying to understand whether I have a problem with not knowing how to tell stories or just not being able to. It's like, I can't see a logical sequence of events in my head but instead I see the events in my head in a manner that's disorganized and needs thought before it can be expressed coherently. I can see a logical connection between events, but the events themselves are not organized in a logical manner: I see a heap of thoughts loosely attached with strings instead of a nice queue. When attempting to tell a story, I also have a problem building suspense and using my tone of voice to add meaning to my words. (Just imagine listening to someone tell you a story that has no suspense and no punchline and sounds a lot more like a list of facts than a story :D)

My problem could be ADD, and I once had an English professor ask me if I have ADD, but I mentioned this possibility to the last two psychologists I talked to and they told me they don't think I have ADD.

If my problem is not ADD, what is it then? Sheer unintelligentness?



woodsman25
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19 Jan 2008, 2:47 pm

it sounds like me and you have a very similar problem. I have a very hard time conveying things like a story or events or even my side of an argument but thats usually only when I am really aggitated and am not thinking right cause I am angry.

Writting or typing things like a story or events is certainly alot more easier. You have a delete key and time to read back what you wrote (maby, I dont, hehe) and plus you are not ususally interacting with somebody so that of course takes far more mental energy to do for us then for some NT.

I always feel I know how a story goes or events go in my head, its getting them out thats difficult. I feel I am intelligent and have a very good memory of how things went usually, but getting that out it just does not sound as intelligent.


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tyler111215
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19 Jan 2008, 2:55 pm

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and don't know if I have AS or not, but I think I might. Anyway, I know exactly what you are talking about because I feel the exact same way. I have an extremely difficult time articulating myself both in speech and in writing, and am constantly second guessing myself on whether or not I am conveying my thoughts in the best possible manner, or coherently. Like you, I also have extreme difficulties telling stories. I would kill to be able to tell stories like some people I know can. They can go on and on for more than an hour on a single subject while keeping it interesting, whereas with me, my stories are short and to the point (if I'm lucky). Even then, I stumble constantly, often forgetting to mention details I should have previously mentioned. I also feel very insecure when talking because I am afriad the listeners may be totally uninterested in what I have to say, as is usually the case. The wrost thing, though, is when I am asked my opinion on a subject I have absolutely NO interest in whatsoever. (Like politics for example) Most normal folks tend to come up with good BS, and at the very least sound like they have articulated a solid piece of infromation, but in my case, I just freeze, and find myself at COMPLETE loss for words, and literally will say absolutely NOTHING. My usual cop out from these kind of unpleasant situations is by turning around after saying something relatively short and useless and asking a question so I won't have to keep speaking. Anyone else have these kind of problems?



Mw99
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19 Jan 2008, 3:07 pm

tyler111215 wrote:
The wrost thing, though, is when I am asked my opinion on a subject I have absolutely NO interest in whatsoever. (Like politics for example) Most normal folks tend to come up with good BS, and at the very least sound like they have articulated a solid piece of infromation, but in my case, I just freeze, and find myself at COMPLETE loss for words, and literally will say absolutely NOTHING. My usual cop out from these kind of unpleasant situations is by turning around after saying something relatively short and useless and asking a question so I won't have to keep speaking. Anyone else have these kind of problems?


I have the exact same problem. You and I have the exact same problem. Are you sure you don't have ADD??



tyler111215
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19 Jan 2008, 3:14 pm

I've been diagnosed by several doctors since I was 8 years old as having ADD, and have been prescribed pretty much every drug in the book for it. I'm 22 now and don't take any ADD medications anymore. (it's been about a year now) I suppose to some degree the drugs they gave me helped a little bit with these issues I mentioned above, but only for a short period of time while their effects were the strongest. But the rebound effect that also would hit me hard when the drugs begin to wear off actually accentuated all these problems, making them about twice as worse. It's for that reason I decided it would be best if I left ADD meds alone. I don't know if it's a misadiagnosis on the doctors' part, or if these drugs just aren't for me. How about youself?



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19 Jan 2008, 3:19 pm

I think in pictures, or I suppose symbols might be a more accurate term. Granted, most intelligence requires symbols, but I have a very difficult time translating these images into verbal language. I wish I could just project what I'm thinking, but that would make my linguistic skills quite lazy and ineffective. All of those nights spent reading dictionaries would be worthless.

Mw99: You certainly do not communicate as though you lack intelligence. I've thought about why this verbal ineptitude occurs, and as mundane as it seems, anxiety is the only realistic explanation I can fathom. You try to make your expression perfect, and seem to know what you want to say (in some vague representation), but the urge for perfection is what destroys you. I don't know if I'm explaining this well enough, but I hope you understand.



Mw99
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19 Jan 2008, 3:31 pm

tyler111215 wrote:
I've been diagnosed by several doctors since I was 8 years old as having ADD, and have been prescribed pretty much every drug in the book for it. I'm 22 now and don't take any ADD medications anymore. (it's been about a year now) I suppose to some degree the drugs they gave me helped a little bit with these issues I mentioned above, but only for a short period of time while their effects were the strongest. But the rebound effect that also would hit me hard when the drugs begin to wear off actually accentuated all these problems, making them about twice as worse. It's for that reason I decided it would be best if I left ADD meds alone. I don't know if it's a misadiagnosis on the doctors' part, or if these drugs just aren't for me. How about youself?


A psychologist once told me that I seemed to have an attentional problem but it wasn't ADD. He used an example to illustrate the type of attentional problem I have.

You tell a person the following information:

"The man walked into the bar, had a beer and went home because he wasn't feeling well."

Now if you ask a person with ADD to recite that sentence he will most likely say something along the lines of "The man walked into the bar, had a beer and, hey, it's a nice day today, isn't it?" Whereas a person with the type of attentional problem he thinks I have is more likely to say something along the lines of "The man walked into the bar, had a drink and went home because he was feeling drunk."

The psychologist said this problem was most likely due to lack of interest such as the type of lack of interest that comes along with depression, and for that reason he didn't believe I have ADD. Interestingly, when I repeated the sentence in my head right after I heard it, this is what I said "The man walked into the bar, had a drink and went home because he was feeling tired."



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19 Jan 2008, 4:18 pm

Oh, the thinks you can thought! topic :?

Mw99, this is a very thought provoking topic.

I think I have said elsewhere that I have Central Auditory Processing Difference (not disorder) so that what may seem like ADD could be this. This is why I concentrate so much better when I read than when I listen. This may well be the situation with you.

You seem quite capable of communication to me, and I enjoy your posts.


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Mw99
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19 Jan 2008, 4:45 pm

sartresue wrote:
Oh, the thinks you can thought! topic :?

Mw99, this is a very thought provoking topic.

I think I have said elsewhere that I have Central Auditory Processing Difference (not disorder) so that what may seem like ADD could be this. This is why I concentrate so much better when I read than when I listen. This may well be the situation with you.

You seem quite capable of communication to me, and I enjoy your posts.



I don't know about that, but I find that sometimes I hear someone say something and the information enters my mind, but my brain doesn't make sense of it; it just sits there. It's like I retain the words in my mind but the words themselves don't form sentences - they are just a meaningless string of words. When this happens I have to stop and think about the meaning of those words until I start seeing sentences. This doesn't happen all the time, but it's happened a few times and it's caught my attention. Is that what your condition is like?



sartresue
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19 Jan 2008, 5:11 pm

Oh the thinks you can thought (continued) :? topic

Mw99, This is exactly what happens to me, but it may or may not be part of CAPD. I have never been able to articulate it as well as you just did. I have a hard time thinking you have a hard time expressing your thoughts.

Keep up the great thoughts :)

Regards,

sartresue


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AdvenaIngenium
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19 Jan 2008, 5:38 pm

So, this isn't a normal AS trait, then? I'm the same way. Though I have gotten better with age.



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20 Jul 2009, 10:52 pm

Thank you Mw99. I googled the subject of your post because I just got done presenting a lesson for a teaching class I'm in and it went awful. I'm frustrated because I thought that I had matured past the hindrances of my "shy" youth. I have actually which makes this all the more troubling. I understand the social implications and limiting feelings I have and believe that I manage them well now. The problem that I had tonight was about not being able to form my thoughts and expression in a way that can be understood by the class. I laughed at myself as I copied your post(hope that's ok)because I would never have been able to express that verbally. I had come to the conclusion that I have AS this year. I don't really fancy the idea of claiming it because I deal with adversity with a "grin and bear it" attitude. It's hard to deny though.

Tyler your post is also spot on for how I feel.



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21 Jul 2009, 1:01 am

Mw99 wrote:
I don't express myself very well speaking or in writing

The quality of your post contradicts the point you are trying to make. :roll:

It is very well written, has a logical sequence, not too long, eloquent, good pace. I'd say well above average.

So unless you didn't need a week to write it or people didn't get your message; you are a normal/good writer. Maybe just not to your own (too high?) standards.

Could it be that anxiety, caused by your standards, is making your speech more troublesome?



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21 Jul 2009, 1:39 am

The story of my life.

I don't like speaking much because of the way all the words just come out in the wrong order, how I stutter and stammer and forget about what I'm saying. It was once so bad I almost bought myself an Alpha Smart to do the speaking for me.


I think MobyOne K is onto something: High standard and anxiety. I have very high standard of myself and get annoyed at the slightest stutter or mispronounced word or if my words don't make sense.
My mum told me during my dx assessment that 'you are very articulate when you describe what your problems are.' We're all so hard on ourselves.
My psychologist said to me that all people do sometimes say the wrong word, or mispronounce it but I also think that we (as aspies) find it very hard to get others to understand what we're talking about. That's the hardest for me. Every line I say gets misunderstood.
I could even go on and say I interpret what's said in more than one way, so communicating with humans is a very difficult task indeed.


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21 Jul 2009, 5:12 am

Yeah I can't tell you how many times someone has said, "You seem like you communicate fine."

I agree with the high standard and anxiety is a trigger for incoherent phrases. The way it's experienced is that in the confusion of forming the message I become aware that the information and structure I'm confident I will be able to get out of my mouth is moving away from my cognitive monolog. Adding to this I'm also trying to gage if the person is receiving the intended message and .....what was I thinking again?

When I type I have the time to focus and redirect the message and I'm able to get a glimpse of how it may be received by reading back over it. That luxury is not afforded in conversation.

So many times I have just let folks go with a message I didn't intend to send because the obstacle to communicate becomes to large and time or social convention prohibit clarification. I do make the effort though if I'm aware this problem has caused someone pain in some way. If not then I will clam up abruptly as if they were not interested in the conversation anyway.



shomnec
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21 Jul 2009, 2:21 pm

I suspect that both the very high standards and the feeling of incoherentness stem alike from AS. Perhaps the former has its origin in the latter - that when you grow up feeling frustrated about your ability to express things well, you become hyper-conscious of your performance and begin to critique every little thing. The AS proness to details and patterns probably doesn't help much, lol! :-) At least in my case.