The dark side of Aspergers: serial killers, sociopathy



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frields
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22 Feb 2008, 12:51 am

Wikipedia:
People speculated to have been autistic
Serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_spe ... n_autistic
Scroll down to list of people.

Autistic Serial Killers?
http://media.www.dailytitan.com/media/s ... 2131.shtml

Autismwebsite.com
http://www.autismwebsite.com/crimetimes/05c/w05cp13.htm
ASPERGER'S DISORDER: A POSSIBLE EXPLANATION FOR BEHAVIOR
OF SUBGROUP OF SERIAL KILLERS?


"A series of papers by J. Arturo Silva and colleagues suggests that some serial killers—including Jeffrey Dahmer and Theodore Kaczynski (the "Unabomber")—exhibit evidence of Asperger's disorder (AD), a variant of autism."

"Silva et al. say that Dahmer, convicted of serially killing and cannibalizing young boys, exhibited signs of AD from his earliest years. As a child, he exhibited poor eye contact, displayed facial expressions "devoid of emotional glow," had a rigid body posture and gait, and was isolated, socially inept, and "emotionally disconnected." He also strongly disliked change and was highly ritualistic and obsessive (with his obsessions including the collection of bones and dead animal bodies). All of these traits can be signs of AD."

"Silver et al. argue that Dahmer's creation, collection, and utilization of cadavers can be viewed as "a sexualized form of the repetitive behavioral patterns typically encountered in AD." Dahmer's treatment of his victims, they say, is consistent with the fact that individuals with AD have trouble both in "theory of mind" (the understanding that other people have thoughts and feelings) and in distinguishing between people and objects."

"Similar patterns, Silva and colleagues say, appear in the history of Kaczynski, who killed three people and wounded dozens by sending them mail bombs. Silva et al. note that Kaczynski was aloof and could not understand the feelings of others. He also exhibited an aversion to being touched and experienced extreme distress when exposed to noise, both common reactions in children with autism. A neighbor described the young Kaczynski as "a child who was an old man before his time," consistent with Hans Asperger's description of his young patients with AD as "little professors," and as an adult, Kaczynski was extremely impaired in social relationships. Kaczynski's preoccupations with bomb-making and the perceived evils of technology, the authors say, can be viewed as typical of the obsessive interests of a person with AD."

"Silva et al. say their characterization of a subset of serial killers as having high-functioning autism could lead to a greater understanding of the etiology of both serial homicide and autism. "Psychological phenomena of central importance to understanding serial killers such as deficits in empathy have frequently been explained as originating from a psychopathic core," they say, "thereby missing the possibility that deficits in empathy may also be due to autistic psychopathology.""

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Last edited by frields on 22 Feb 2008, 4:06 am, edited 3 times in total.

MusicMaker1
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22 Feb 2008, 12:57 am

I wonder how many serial killers there have been in the past? If the general population has 1 out of every 150 people being autistic, then, wouldn't it stand to reason that one out of every 150 or so serial killers might be autistic??

I HATE it when this kind of stigma can effect an entire population of otherwise law-abiding, creative, brilliant people... I remember reading somewhere that at any given time in the U.S., there were probably at least 60 serial killers on the loose.. I wonder how many of them are neurotypical?

http://tinyurl.com/ysed4v (Read paragraph on right side: "Estimated number of serial killers")



Last edited by MusicMaker1 on 22 Feb 2008, 2:11 am, edited 5 times in total.

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22 Feb 2008, 1:01 am

It souns like that crap Stephen Juan put out in his The Odd Mind book that AS was a criminal disease!


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22 Feb 2008, 1:44 am

I hate this stuff. There are bad people in EVERY group. doesn't mean we all want to go out and hurt people.



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22 Feb 2008, 1:55 am

Dahmer was very social, he really liked people.

Aturo Silva is connecting a few dots and ignoring the rest.

Basically he is saying, they were both male, and so are most with AS.

Dahmer was our only cannibal I have heard of, since way back when, the guy Hannibal Lector was based on, but he ate children.

Dahmer was fully evaluated, no one mentioned autism or anything else at the time.

Even at the low number, 1 in 150, there are 2,000,000, most likely 10,000,000 going back to the 1920 cannibal, which does not make much of a trend if both were AS, but I think neither.

Kaczynski was also studied at the time of his trial, and no mention of autism. Nor was there a smoking gun, a comic book collection, all the Star Wars action figures, or enough books to sink the foundation. He hated technology.

His bombs were crude, and never improved over fifteen years. He hated transportation.

Both killed strangers, which fits the social superior profile of NT serial killers.

A neighbor said Kaczynski was an old man, as a kid, most likely meaning a grouch, hostile and lacking personality, Silva trys to connect this to Little Professors, who are known for being talkitive, getting along well with much older people.

It is the same bunk as Hitler, an ultimate political type, being labeled. He rose because he had a superior theory of mind. He needed people around him, he craved the masses.

What qualifications does Silva have? Who is paying for the series of studies?

Silva and colleages? Silva et al? Fake science that ignores the very real trial evidence, and blames Aspies?

I will not believe till I see the Lego, Action Figures, and gaming rig. The killer had over ten thousand books would strike close to home.

It think this is the work of that fund raising machine, Autism Slanders.



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22 Feb 2008, 2:08 am

Martin Bryant and his slaughter. Said to be due to the fact he was socially shunned/outcast/prosecuted in his words. Diagnosed with AS from a psychiatrist, the diagnosis was disputed by another for reasons that were invalid (those with AS aren't socially withdrawn, they can be both--there's valid arguments against the AS diagnosis, but he had an ASD of some kind going by his history (AD most likely)).

I'm betting that the dude last year with "AX" written on his arm had an ASD too.

Social isolation/rejection can do a number of things to the mind.



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22 Feb 2008, 2:09 am

I wouldn't mind if they worded it like there are serial killers that happen to have autism. But it's worded like autism may explain why certain people were killers. It's my belief that autistics don't lack empathy the way a sociopath lacks empathy, they just have trouble identifying and expressing (that's how I am anyway). What's more, autistics are usually very caring towards animals, and it's a red flag that a person may be a sociopath if they are sadistic to animals. There may be all kinds of overlaps in pathologies, (some are not as rare as previously thought after all), so it makes sense that some of those people could have autism. But it's pretty far fetched to blame the criminal behaviors of such a small sample of people on their theoretical autism, when that behavior is just as deviant with autism as it is with NTs.



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22 Feb 2008, 4:49 am

Danielismyname wrote:
Martin Bryant and his slaughter. Said to be due to the fact he was socially shunned/outcast/prosecuted in his words. Diagnosed with AS from a psychiatrist, the diagnosis was disputed by another for reasons that were invalid (those with AS aren't socially withdrawn, they can be both--there's valid arguments against the AS diagnosis, but he had an ASD of some kind going by his history (AD most likely)).

I'm betting that the dude last year with "AX" written on his arm had an ASD too.

Social isolation/rejection can do a number of things to the mind.


Doesn't mean he should have been excused from killing. Martin Bryant should have been given barotrauma!


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22 Feb 2008, 5:00 am

I dont think sociopathy should be related to Aspergers. It is a completely different disorder. Some people with Aspergers can also have sociopathy, or lack empathy to a strong degree.

But Aspergers does not itself lead to sociopathy.


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22 Feb 2008, 5:32 am

To my mind serial killing is a very unlikely hobby(?) for an Aspie.Its more likely all serial killers are NTs who crave attention from others and seek to control or dominate/kill others,we Aspies just want to be left alone.



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22 Feb 2008, 5:53 am

Quatermass wrote:
Doesn't mean he should have been excused from killing.


No, it doesn't. It gives a reason to those who do these things (they see it as a valid reason), who're capable of doing these things; some become politicians, some become career criminals [who'll never be caught], some become serial killers.

When there's a reason, people will use it to their own ends.

I just kinda shrug my shoulders at my own social isolation, but then you have someone else with a similar amount, and they kill themselves.

It's all individual in the end, no matter the disorder or lack thereof.



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22 Feb 2008, 6:14 am

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22 Feb 2008, 7:37 am

Dark side of the moon topic

I have read authors of serial killers, eg, Hare, and all speak of these serial killers as displaying antisocial/sadist, schizophrenic and neurotrauma as the possible causes of Bundyism /Dahmerism. This is the first time I have read that these serial murderers could live on the Autism Spectrum.

It is highly troublesome, to say the least, to imply that there is a dark side to AS and it is manifested as psychopathic personality disorder. :x


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22 Feb 2008, 7:39 am

That's pathetic. Two out of how many serial killers?
Check Ted Bundy's story. He was so NT he was scary.


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22 Feb 2008, 8:03 am

AD is Alzheimer's Disease. I didn't know that so many serial killers were senior citizens. Sheesh.



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