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DWill
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05 Apr 2008, 3:59 pm

I find sustained eye contact extremely uncomfortable but I can force myself to do it. Most of the time though I can briefly look into the eyes of the people I know almost naturally, without too much conscious effort. But in stressful situations it gets much worse, I can not sustain eye contact at all, and I end up looking anywhere but in someone's eyes. A stressful situation for me too is something as simple as going to a fast food place to order food, my brother said it was one of the first things that tipped him off to me having AS because when we would go to order food I never look at the cashiers eyes or even their face. So what your therapist did would be very unpleasant for me, as seeing some stranger is always more stressful than ordering food.

A tactic that I have seen done with my other little brother though (11 years old diagnosed with AS) is encouraging eye contact rather than forcing it. The therapist will take his chin and hold it from an arms length away (not close like the social worker with your son) and will encourage him to talk about his interests (dragons right now) but only if he looks her in the eye. He'll glance away a few times at first but she'll gently ask him to look her in the eyes and continue and eventually he is excitedly rattling away about everything related to dragons while looking her right in the eye.

I dunno seems a much better approach to me, maybe you can suggest that to the next person who tries to make your son look them in the eye as an alternative to the way it has been done, but I have no evidence that it is a better way to do it other than from my brother and from what I know I would prefer. Hope it helps!



2ukenkerl
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05 Apr 2008, 5:00 pm

wo interesting things about eye contact:

1. Some little boys(Some even "grow up" doing this!) Have STARING contests! There is even a commercial here for some communication company showing americans and japanese doing this via CCTV!! !! ! The goal is to stare AS LONG AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT BLINKING! The last one to blink wins.

2. Humans are perhaps the only primate to not take such contact as a CHALLENGE! DON'T try this with another primate!



Belfast
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05 Apr 2008, 6:35 pm

To the original question, it's okay (can be awkward or difficult, but only occasionally) looking into eyes of the few folks to whom I'm close, with whom I'm familiar & feel safe. Everyone else scares me, so I try to avoid their eyes-after meeting their gaze once in passing (since it seems obligatory). Growing up, no one ever mentioned anything about my eye contact (or lack thereof), so I haven't any insight there.

Sora wrote:
Overall, I try to avoid looking at people who I don't like. I don't want to look at their hands, their shoes - nothing. I don't know why I dislike it, but I just look away automatically. Maybe like 'out of my sight, out of my mind!'
I can look people that I find to be nice in the face even, I can look at their hair, their clothes... you get the idea.

Mean people become ugly to my eyes, and nice ones get better looking-not an absolute, but to some extent perception can be influenced/modified this way. Bad experiences can lead one to come to loathe the mere appearance (visual representation/depiction) of an object, event, or person.
Just like I listen to music I like & read books that interest me, I look at & spend time with people I like (both visually & mentally/emotionally). Those I dislike I "excommunicate", exile them from my attention, don't speak of or to them, don't look at them. I just cross them out in my mind because I will never forgive them (that's what I did to my grandfather with the bad temper, when I was 12).
Scarlet_N wrote:
I have been told that it looks as if I am challenging or posturing when I am upset and make an effort to make normal eye contact.

My emotions/thoughts can be transparent (visible in my facial expression) but made more of by an external person than I ever intended to convey. Seems as if other people amplify, in their own minds, what they perceive as my reaction. Am not trying to be offensive or rude, yet have often been hassled in past by authority figures, accused of "having a chip on my shoulder" (could never understand what that was supposed to mean or what I could do about it) & "an attitude"-which also confused, baffled-and did not help me.
darkstone100 wrote:
now that I have glasses I can actually see the people around me I get even more nervous to look around myself when I'm in public places because I might see someone looking at me( or I think they're looking at me).

That's a big-time predicament I have. I can see fine up close, but far away, I need glasses-so I have to wear them when I go out, then I feel even more vulnerable & visible (seeing & being seen, or being made even more aware of these).
2ukenkerl wrote:
Some even "grow up" doing this!) Have STARING contests!

In junior high school, I had staring contests with other students-can't recall whose idea it was. Admit it wasn't classic/strict staring, because I had to blink my eyes-but in terms of holding a "straight face" & unvarying expression, I usually won/held out the longest. FYI, in post you mention males doing this-but I'm female. Upon reflection, think I probably played against more males in the staring contests than against females. Huh.


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Scarlet_N
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05 Apr 2008, 7:11 pm

Belfast - I too have had some issues with authority figures, primarily male authoritarian types. Once I vented my frustration at this to my husband, whom asked me to show him the way I look at my supervisors/bosses.

He said that whether or not I intended to, my very posture and facial expressions, while in my opinion serious and ready for action, could in fact be interpreted as a chip on the shoulder.

Plus, I ask questions. That, I have learned the hard way, does not help.



happyheather912
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05 Apr 2008, 7:17 pm

For me, it depends on how close I am to the person. My fiance and close friends don't bother me at all with eye contact or physical closeness (I enjoy hugs from them very much!) but eye contact and someone standing close to me makes me VERY uncomfortable if they are strangers.

Especially men. I have no idea why.


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gekitsu
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05 Apr 2008, 7:25 pm

i agree with jeyradans points very much - good description!

as for me... yeah, it tends to be easier with people i know well. that odd feeling of eye contact, somehow vulnerable and deep-shaking, is a bit easier when i know that i dont have anything to be afraid of that person.

another point that i recently thought about: do you have problems with photos of people that could replicate a situation of intense eye contact? i was quite surprised that i dont have the slightest problem with photos. made me wonder what exactly triggers that feeling of uneasiness.



Rainstorm5
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05 Apr 2008, 7:35 pm

ivetastedflight wrote:
A social worker (who was trying to prove that he could make adequate eye contact) was getting closer and closer and closer to his face, and I wanted to yell at her to stop getting so close, I know he doesn't like it, but he started to take brief glimpses of her face every once in awhile (SHE TOOK UP HIS ENTIRE LINE OF SIGHT!), and she determined that this was sufficient.

Is the kind of eye contact I just described "good enough"?


Social workers can be such idiots. They jump to conclusions, claim to be knowledgeable but really aren't and more often than not, they're dead wrong.

Enough said.


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whatamess
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06 Apr 2008, 2:59 am

I think eye contact is overrated...



ShadesOfMe
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06 Apr 2008, 3:04 am

It's just as hard for me to make eye contact with a friend then with a stranger. well, maybe a little less hard. i don't feel as uncomfortable. But I still don't like to do it.



prolog
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06 Apr 2008, 2:19 pm

Just an esoteric fact about me when I was in grade school a kid picked a fight with me and I remember trying to gouge his eyes out 8O when we were wrestling on the floor. Anyway eye contact has been easier to maintain over the years with conscious effort on my part.



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06 Apr 2008, 4:02 pm

i tend to look just below peoples eyes, no one ever notices either :D



CMaximus
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06 Apr 2008, 6:03 pm

I find things to do, and to gesture at and talk about while I'm talking to someone to make avoiding eye contact seem more natural. When I know it's been getting long enough since I looked, I tend to fixate on one eye (usually the right) and narrow my focus, to avoid the awkward uncertainty of what's "in the eyes," just long enough, and keep talking... concentrate... long enough, look away, repeat, etc. A glance will usually suffice, too

I can actually look someone IN the eyes if I'm accustomed to dealing with them and like them, but not for very long, (maybe a second) not if I'm tired out, and I certainly don't get any kind of unconscious idea about what's going on with them. I just try it out now, sometimes. If I'm caught by surprise, eye contact threatens to jerk me out of the flow of what I'm saying/doing for a bit. It's like an all-consuming distraction.

I can also FORCE myself to just stare into someone eyes. Nobody really likes that, though.



pschristmas
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06 Apr 2008, 6:47 pm

Again, I'm undiagnosed and unsure whether all of the symptoms apply to me, but this is my experience.

Generally I don't care for sustained eye contact. Eye contact feels very unnatural and I'm generally uncomfortable with the feeling. I don't mind it so much with family and close friends, but it really depends on how stressed I am at the time. I have trouble maintaining eye contact with coworkers and acquaintances on a good day. I'll make quick eye contact when beginning a conversation or when asked a direct question but my eyes will invariably slide to the lower left or off over their shoulder. This is a problem, because I know from reading articles about body language that when a person looks to the lower left during conversation it is believed to be a signal that they are lying, and I'll become even more stressed thinking that they will think I'm lying to them. I can also make eye contact naturally with my professors during a lecture, especially in my favorite classes, but have more difficulty when speaking to them personally. Strangers can just forget it. On a good day, I'll make a quick glance at their eyes because I know it's expected, then I'll find something else to look at, usually the ground. With business associates, I walk and talk a lot. It's a good coping strategy and looks natural, like I'm just really busy.

Patricia



Tetraquartz
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06 Apr 2008, 7:44 pm

I can make eye contact with people I trust, but not for more than a few seconds. I keep feeling it's something only lovers should do. is gaze into each other's eyes.
So I feel rather self conscious. And I can't think or listen well, if I'm worried about how much eye contact to make. The time it's important for me, is authority figures, such a police officers, because they are trained to be suspicious of people who don't look them in the eye. So, I tend to look them in the eye and put on my best possible NT emulation. Fortunately this is only necessary for a few minutes. And I often come away not remembering the conversation at all.

In uncomfortable situations, or people who I don't like, even if they are only on TV, I can't look at the people in the eyes or their facial expressions. I have to look away.

Even in real life, if they ask me to look at them, I have great difficulty doing so, and feel angry when people try to make me. This was troublesome in school.


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trashcanpoet
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10 Apr 2008, 7:35 pm

I fake eye contact with most people (focus on a point NEAR the eyes like the rims of glasses or between the brows). I told my partner I do that and she said I better never do that with her. We have a sort of ritual where we'll lie face to face and I'll look in her eyes as long as I can. I think it's easier with her actualy because she can only look at me with one eye at a time (she has vision problems) but also because I'm comfortable with her. Although after a while I start to blink a lot.



cdc2001c
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10 Apr 2008, 10:20 pm

I have trouble with eye contact. I can usually look at someone for a few seconds but I quickly become uncomfortable. Eye contact is so hard to maintain and if you dont do it people either think you are lying or not really listening to them. I had this problem in college when I would have to explain things to my professors like excuses sometimes they would not believe me because I couldn't look them in the eye for very long, at least thats how I felt. It is easier to look someone in the eye if they are family or I know them really well, but for others I try to pick a spot on the wall about where their eyes would be so that they think Im looking at them.


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