Iran Arrests Suspected Converts to Christianity

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Dox47
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03 Jun 2008, 2:13 am

That a bunch of Christians did awful things in the past does not excuse a buch Muslims from doing awful things today. Not that I'm saying that they have an exclusive claim to being awful, but "two wrongs make a right" is not a valid argument. Personally, I despise all religious fanatics equally and think the world would be far happier without them, but the Muslim fanatics seem to be the most aggressively fanatical at the moment. Apologizing for and rationalizing Muslim misdeeds because they were oppressed in the past, or pointing out that other people are doing worse things just doesn't work for me. Yet that seems to be the gist of many posts in this thread, perhaps a better argument is not forthcoming because atrocities are inexcusable, no matter who is committing them.



The_Chosen_One
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03 Jun 2008, 2:16 am

Because the US pissed them off by aiding whom they considered the wrong people. The Jews. The Iranian decided to take hostages in 1979 for whatever beef they had against America, so what does the US do? give aid to Saddam and Bin Laden to fight the Iranians and Khomeni. Bush Sr decides to go after Iraq when they attack Kuwait, mainly to protect oil interest, and what happens? the Iraquis threaten Israel. The Yanks then send the Cole in, which gets blown up. The Al Quaeda attack the WTC, in 1995 as a warning, and waht happens? Clinton decides to send the UN in to look for WMDs (which didn't exist). Suddenly, Junior gets in in 01, the WTC gets wiped out, and the rest is history. Now I doun't applaud any of it, barbaric as both forms of aggression are; but what it all comes down to is the continued backing of the Israelis/Jews by the Americans when they know full well the Arabs are getting royally pissed off by it. What do you guys finally want, world domination?
I'd settle for just a world to live in peacfully minding my own busness.


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oscuria
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03 Jun 2008, 2:29 am

Ah, excuse the Islamists. There is always a reason to butcher a people. Always.


Is this what Paganism teaches you? Karma?


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Khan_Sama
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04 Jun 2008, 9:50 am

oscuria wrote:
Ah, excuse the Islamists. There is always a reason to butcher a people. Always.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_h ... ted_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Ter ... casualties



Speckles
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04 Jun 2008, 10:10 am

oscuria wrote:
Khan_Sama wrote:
....


Khan...my argument was against countries who send money to the west so Mosques get built, Qurans get printed, and to open up Islamic Schools.

How much of this money comes from KSA? Yet, where is there a church in KSA? Where is there a Synagogue? Where is there a temple that isn't islamic? It's pure BS.

The Bahais are considered an offshoot of Islam in Islamic countries which is why they're banned, but why then can't Western countries consider Islam an offshoot of Christianity and ban it equally?

Again, it's bs.



And how can missionaries (non-christian or christian) acquire converts when many Muslim countries ban conversion?


Hmm, well in some ways letting missionaries in from countries that refuse to take your own missionaries could be viewed as a very good "our culture is better then your culture" argument.

Essentially, it's saying that you have more faith in your culture's ability to stand up against contrary ideas. Sort of like a tough guy letting someone else have a free shot at him.



oscuria
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04 Jun 2008, 10:42 am

Speckles wrote:
Hmm, well in some ways letting missionaries in from countries that refuse to take your own missionaries could be viewed as a very good "our culture is better then your culture" argument.

Essentially, it's saying that you have more faith in your culture's ability to stand up against contrary ideas. Sort of like a tough guy letting someone else have a free shot at him.


What are these countries afraid of? Do they believe that their faith will be revealed as false when compared to others? Even India has laws in place to prevent conversion. Why is the government so interested in the faith of its subjects?

It is even more strange when there is suppose to be no compulsion in religion. We all submit to the One. Why haven't the people realized this?





Khan_Sama wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Ter ... casualties




I'm lost.

I'm even more lost at understanding why Daler Mehndi is so popular.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx8twNmUaKY[/youtube]





Ahha chiknak chiknak chiknak
Ahha chiknak chiknak chiknak
Ahha chiknak chiknak chiknak
Ahha chiknak chiknak


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Speckles
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04 Jun 2008, 11:10 am

oscuria wrote:
Speckles wrote:
Hmm, well in some ways letting missionaries in from countries that refuse to take your own missionaries could be viewed as a very good "our culture is better then your culture" argument.

Essentially, it's saying that you have more faith in your culture's ability to stand up against contrary ideas. Sort of like a tough guy letting someone else have a free shot at him.


What are these countries afraid of? Do they believe that their faith will be revealed as false when compared to others? Even India has laws in place to prevent conversion. Why is the government so interested in the faith of its subjects?


Yep, that's pretty much the arguement. Allowing missionaries in may not be a fairness issue, but a cultural challenge. It's a bit counter-intuive, since it's sort of a surrender-to-win strategy. You also got to remember that by allowing missionaries in, they have to start exposing themselves to the culture they are trying to convert. There's the risk of 'going native' when they do that, if they realize that the foreign culture is more appealling to them. Even if they don't fully convert, their good opinion of the foreign culture may stay with them when they come home. Since they are missionaries, a group that generally succeeds on their charisma, their good will is likely to spread out to others, ultimately making their culture more vunerable to future contact with the foreign one.



Khan_Sama
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05 Jun 2008, 1:10 am

oscuria wrote:

Khan_Sama wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_States

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Ter ... casualties




I'm lost.

I'm even more lost at understanding why Daler Mehndi is so popular.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx8twNmUaKY[/youtube]





Ahha chiknak chiknak chiknak
Ahha chiknak chiknak chiknak
Ahha chiknak chiknak chiknak
Ahha chiknak chiknak


Lol, your post made me fall off my chair!

Firstly, I just pointed out that in my view, your country is responsible for more loss of life than any Islamist faction. Your country is the only one which has dropped nuclear bombs on a civillian populace, twice. As far as I'm concerned, your country is responsible for a few major wars, and a yet worse one coming up soon. After all, everyone knows Al-Qaeda was funded by the US just a couple of decades ago, as was Saddam.

Secondly, Daler is popular only in Punjab. It's a very small state. There's worse music out there though, much worse.



The_Chosen_One
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05 Jun 2008, 2:47 am

And what's even worse, I'm Australian, and my country gets dragged in with them whenever they sneeze. i don't believe in war, period, so why involve us?


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oscuria
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06 Jun 2008, 12:42 pm

Khan_Sama wrote:
...


War is going to bring death. This is true.

But then again, we can't compare one part of the world with only one state. I will admit that the US has had a disastrous history of intervention and war. Let us see: War of 1812, Mexico, Philippines, provoking a war between Colombia and Panama (basically much having to do with Latin America), Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. It happens when you have power and a following.


I'm aware Daler is Panjabi. Bhangra pop is not my style, some of it is ok; Balle Balle.


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