Aspergers vs Autism

Post Reply New Topic

Yeah I know this may be a bad idea, but this thread is incredibly large and I'm too lazy to search with this website. So I was wondering if anyone knows BOTH the similarites and differences between Aspergers and Autism. If any of you guys do, please list them out because I'm just trying to learn more about aspergers and autism for my personal interest.

Aspergers is one form of autism, still on the autism spectrum...

Being on the spectrum, and having Autism, Autistic Spectrum Disorder, Aspergers, High functioning, Low functioning and disorders that run parallel with the spectrum disorders and are treated the same but not on the spectrum like non verbal learning disorder – confused, to me they are all part and parcel of the same autism spectrum and I feel there should be one name "autism"... I may have aspergers but see so many similarities with my friends child who is extremely affected, does not talk etc... so many parallels expect maybe those of us with aspergers understand more, which I feel often causes us more damage....

Autism is like a web which is in the center and around it just some of the associated conditions people can have PDD, OCD, Social phobia, Anxiety, Bipolar, ADHD, ADD, Dyslexia, Dyscalculia, Dyspraxia, Tourettes Syndrome, speech disorders…

The main difference between the two is how the social deficits manifest; those with autism are usually socially aloof and indifferent to social interaction (social isolation), whereas those with Asperger's are usually socially odd.

Motor mannerisms are usually absent in Asperger's for the most part, whereas in Autism, those with such frequently flap, hand-twirl, rock, sway, spin, etcetera. Those with Autism like re-enacting repetitive movements constantly (doing a particular dance, mimicking the movements of something), just as they like to say phrases repetitively (echolalia). Those with Asperger's usually have an all-encompassing single interest as their repetitive behavior, palaeontology for example, and this interest takes up most of their time. Those with Autism tend to need order and routine to a far greater level than those with Asperger's, in such a way if a routine is broken they can't function. Those with Asperger's tend to get anxious when their routine is broken.

Those with Autism have a greater delay in speech than those with Asperger's (the average age of gaining communicative speech for Autism is 4 and a half years). Some with Autism never gain speech at all, others only have limited speech, and others have adequate speech, but it's difficult for them to put thoughts to words. Asperger's have adequate speech [for the most part], though they have problems with understanding the point of conversation, problems with emotional inflection, an odd prosody, taking things literally, etcetera, just like those with Autism who can talk.

It's unknown whether they are the same disorder, but only differ in severity, or two distinct disorders that are alike in more ways than they are different.

Thanks guys. Now I'm beginning to understand the differences between AS and autism.

I'll agree with all the above mentioned with the exception of the motor mannerisms. Hans Asperger himself noted repetitive and stereotypical mannerisms in his studies. One boy would bang his leg repeatedly and another would pace. I think it's a form of stimming behavior. These two traits AS and autism do in fact share-maybe it's to a lesser extent in Aspergers. Autistic individuals flick their fingers in front of their faces or rock back and forth regardless of who's watching. Kids with Aspergers don't need to engage in these mannerisms to such a degree. They are more engaged with the world around them.

All of these are sounding like a whole lot of generalizations.

I'm autistic, and I used to be able to wait until private for a lot of my stimming. (Not all of it, but a lot of it.)

I know 'aspies' who can out-stim nearly any 'autie'.

Engagement with the world around is incredibly subjective -- engagement with what part of it? My experience is I can be engaged with huge parts of the world but if they're not the same parts other people are engaged with, they'll claim I'm not engaged with the world -- because they think that the part they can perceive is the entire world. And there are both 'autie' and 'aspie' daydreamer types who do spend a lot of time imagining. My own experience is being hyper-aware of the world around me, not less aware of it, more like so aware that it overloads my ability to respond to it in a standard manner at times (but not at other times obviously), but not perceiving it would be the opposite of what I experience.

And as a person who'd undoubtedly mostly be considered 'passive' socially (although I have moments of all the other categories), I'm never included in these 'autie' vs. 'aspie' comparisons except at the moments where I seemed very avoiding or not-noticing of other kids (whether or not it was true -- and often it wasn't, and I hate that people stereotype that if you don't move a certain way you're not noticing things), and where, like sometimes in middle school, I ran up to people and jabbered at them. (In several languages sometimes.)

Sometimes I have a mind to come up with some kind of definition of a 'type' of autism that fits me exactly and (in parody only of course) measure everyone else by their distance from or similarity to me. That would be as bad and as nonsensical as most of the divisions I hear about.

Another important difference:
There is usually a huge speech delay in true Autism. It's not uncommon for people with it to not speak their first word until ages 3-5 years old.

I think big differences are verbal iq and self help skills. Honestly though i said this in another post, each diagnosis either pddnos, aspergers or just autism, that each individual can be affected mildly, moderately, or severely. I really dont think theres a huge difference between all those diagnosis's besides little things like I said above.

I almost agree with everything you're saying, but in my case, because I used to be severely Autistic, I have High Functioning Autism, even though my symptoms are like somebody with Aspergers

Here is the link to the DSM-IV-TR diagnostic criteria for both. Now, the bulk of each entry is essentially copy-and-pasted from the other, but there are some differences.

First, Asperger's automatically excludes language delay. Autism does not. However, language delay is not necessary for a diagnosis of Autistic Disorder, as you only need a certain number of characteristics from each category.

Second, you'll notice that Asperger's diagnosis requires "clinically significant impairment in... functioning" while Autism does not. So, it would seem that very "high-functioning" individuals should probably be diagnosed as Autistic rather than Asperger's.

The only real difference is that Aspies are assumed to have better communication skills.

"All of these are sounding like a whole lot of generalizations.

I'm autistic, and I used to be able to wait until private for a lot of my stimming. (Not all of it, but a lot of it.)

I know 'aspies' who can out-stim nearly any 'autie'. "
QUOTE

Everything can be considered a "genearlization" but it is a way of arriving at some truth about a thing in a deconstructive way. Start with generalizing and then move into a more specific example. Generalizing is a commonality shared by many.

What you've said supports the idea that the less engagement/awareness of people, the more stimming will take place despite onlookers. The more verbal and engaged with environment (more specifically people/peers), the less stimming (as you mentioned). You must have had some awareness of those around you and concern about stimming in front of them. So, you waited until you got home, right? A nonverbal, lower functioning autistic will NOT be able to wait or care about who is around him/her.

There is a real difference between these two people diagnosed with autism. That's why it's called a spectrum. It wasn't always a spectrum. You were either autistic and this meant nonveral, mentally ret*d or psychotic. Now, since the 1990's, you can be higher functioning, extremely verbal and still have autistic traits. Asperger mentions in his writings, a person can possess high cognitive abilities and have autism and this same person functions on the higher end of the spectrum. I'm not making this up. It's all there in Asperger's research and, now, in the DSM IV.

I will generalize by stating that the diagnostic criteria fits a particular category of higher functioning autistics called Aspergers or PDD-NOS.

equinn

I generally (ha) speak in generalizations and majorities.

Orwell,

The criteria themselves at face value don't distinguish the two as each criterion manifests differently in Autism and Asperger's (the criteria need to be applied to the information contained within the DSM); one must look deeper into the DSM to find the relevant information. I'll post it here:

What are exactly the differences between HFA and AS? I think the only one is the delay in speech.

So, let's assume for a sec I pass the criteria for asperger in a formal diagnosis, I now remember my parents tell me stories of my speech issues that I had to go to a specialist since my pronunciation was very bad for a five years old. Right now my communication skills seem ok, though. Would that make me an HFA?

Yes, of course...

See yea I'm the same way, i was severly autistic growing up, I'm not severe anymore, not always the highest functioning but defintely not severe, even though my clinical diagnosis is classic autism, I still write high functioning autism wherever I need to write down my diagnosis.
I was just saying that all three diagnosis's have all the same thing but the big difference that splits all of them apart of verbal iq. My littles diagnosis is pddnos but her psychologist said she fits the criteria for aspergers. but since her pramatic speech was really messed up, and her words didnt come out right, she got the diagnosis of pddnos. She wasn't severe enough to get the autistic disorder diagnosis. Although her speech problems were so bad, she wasn't delayed, she started speaking a normal age.

Its like pddnos can be mild, moderate or severe.
aspergers can be mild, moderate, or severe.
autism can be mild, moderate, or severe.

Now I met a kid with severe pddnos who functioned far worse then a person with just classic autism, because he was more mild, but since he was in his own world, he kept the classic autism diagnosis. I also met a kid who had aspergers diagnosis, this kid gave no eye contact, rocked like crazy, couldn't even tie his own shoes but was the smartest kid i ever met, and talked so articulately, I thought he was a savant, but they said, nope aspergers, but more severe. Thats why diagnosis's are so hard to read and understand.

*nods*
I'm reading a book soon that I think I might like...if it's good, I'll PM you the name Age, because it's about a girl with Autism

No, I didn't. There was no way I could wait that long. I just ran off by myself a lot or into bathrooms. And it doesn't take huge enormous amounts of social awareness to notice that being screamed at when you do certain things is unpleasant (and then, if you're capable of changing things, you might well do so). And as I said, I couldn't always (or even necessarily usually) succeed.



How do you know whether it's a matter of caring or not being aware of people? I can't wait now at all, so I look like I don't care (by your standards) even when I do. This is exactly what I find so infuriating about these generalizations: They presume things that can be incredibly harmful when presumed about autistic people, and that are not based on actual evidence but are based on what people think is happening inside other people's heads.

For that matter, by the way, there are times I don't stim now, and it's because, generally, my body isn't doing that right then, not becuase I've magically gained social awareness and suppressed them. I can't create them out of nothing and I can't suppress them when they're there, those abilities are gone a long time ago and were pretty flimsy even when they existed.



What 'two people'?



Yes, it was. At least, ever since Kanner wrote about autism, it was a quite a wide array of people. (Most of whom had speech abnormalities but no speech delay.)



More like since the 1940s.



Kanner described his patients as having "good cognitive potentialities", one of them had an IQ of 140, one of them was an extremely early reader, all of them showed high abilities at various tasks requiring the intellect. I'm not making this up either. Nor am I making up the fact that the DSM-IV has never required a diagnosis of an intellectual disability in an autistic person. And even prior to the DSM-IV, you have both Kanner and Asperger describing autistic children repeatedly as intelligent, you even have those obnoxious psychoanalytic types like Frances Tustin in the early 1970s saying that the difference between autistic and other "psychotic" children was that autistic children usually had normal or above-normal IQ scores. And now you've got Mottron's work in Canada showing that on non-language-biased IQ tests (where most people get the same scores as on language-biased ones) even most autistic people who did score low on other tests score at least in the normal range of the less language-biased ones.

I'm not saying these things out of nowhere. I've actually read a lot of the original sources, instead of relying on people's later interpretations of them. I've also been aware that even in the original sources there were many conclusions made that were totally unwarranted and that have taken decades to un-make. The newer research is showing, for instance, normal levels of attachment to parents among autistic children, high levels of attempts to communicate things among very young non-verbal autistic children, and a lot of other things that you would categorize out of existence.

These aren't "new types" of autistic people, either -- these are the same sorts of people who used to be called unaware of people, non-communicative, etc. It's important to be really careful, instead of reading "This person paid no attention to other people" or "This person treated people like furniture," to read what the person did do. The actions, not the interpretations of the actions. There's been vast damage done to autistic people throughout the entire time autistic people have been noted as existing, by people who didn't go back and check those interpretations to see if they were really accurate.

That's why you can get stuff as nonsensical as Kanner's notion that someone didn't listen to people but was able to follow their instructions, and that another person didn't notice anyone but was requesting things of them verbally. And as nonsensical as the notion that if autistic people who are unable to hide our mannerisms are less aware of people than autistic people who are able to hide them. Yes, it does take some awareness (but at minimum only awareness of cause and effect, not awareness of people) to hide them, but it takes more than awareness. It also takes the ability to do so.

The problem is that when you don't actually check what they think they know against what they actually see, you don't notice this. You just take their word for it that people weren't aware of people, even as they were doing things that demonstrated a fair bit of awareness of people. And this is how bad research gets passed on literally for generations before someone takes another look at it. This is why I've read papers dating from the 1940s all the way up to the present day on the topic of autism and seen how the assumptions played out over time and tried to trace them back to their origins to see why they persisted so long and what they were even based on to begin with. (Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes they just relay the assumption without relaying their actual observations.) And the reality of what was observed sometimes has nothing to do with the assumptions that were made, at all.

And many of these assumptions aren't just wrong based on individual variation, they're wrong period, or wrong for most autistic people. They're quite often wrong about the exact same people that they're said to be the most right about -- not just wrong for "those high-functioning types".

I have to live with the consequences of the idea that if I don't use words it means I don't understand them (or that if I do use words it means I do understand them for that matter), if I stim it means I don't notice and/or care what people think of it, if I walk directly away from someone when they greet me then I don't know they exist, etc etc etc. Not to mention the idea that experiences that are all ones I've had at certain points in my life are mutually exclusive within the same autistic person because they're from two different "types", so-called, of autism. And I'm not the only one who has to live with this, so do all autistic people who end up on the wrong side of those assumptions. That's why I put so much effort into correcting them.