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LeKiwi
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17 Aug 2008, 8:50 am

I know, and it's sad. I just can't understand how people can be so limited in their vision that they see people as objects rather than as whole, complete people, differences and quirks and all. I mean, come one, we're autistics - aren't we meant to be the ones with limited vision and unable to see the bigger picture? It almost feels sometimes as if we're all switching places. :(


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richie
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17 Aug 2008, 1:15 pm

alex wrote:
Hey all, have any of you been told that hopefully there won't be many autistic people in the world in the coming years? Doesn't that mindset seem scary?


found on the autism speaks message board:
Quote:
Thank goodness -- thank goodness -- thank goodness we live in a country where parentalism, recovery and hope for a cure can be used in the same sentence. Thank goodness our mentality is one that offers hope for even the most severist person on the parentalist spectrum. Thank goodnes our Early Intervention advocac is powerful and will change the face of parentalism in this next generation and most likely lower the numbers of those on the spectrum.



emphasis mine

Could you please post a link to this particular post on Autism Speaks, I would like to see in what context this was written.
I smell eugenics (Read: preemptive euthanasia) in that word "parentalism"...


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17 Aug 2008, 11:21 pm

Danielismyname wrote:
We'll never be "normal", but if everyone were "normal", humanity would be quite stagnant (I believe Heinlein touches on this very fact in the novel Starship Troopers with the human colony that doesn't receive hardly any solar radiation at all, hence, there'll be no mutations due to such).


I remember someone thinking that Heinlein was autistic after reading The Moon is a Harsh Mistress; lol (they didn't like how the characters were, they were considered "flat" )


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release_the_bats
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18 Aug 2008, 12:05 am

alex wrote:
Thank goodnes our Early Intervention advocac is powerful . . .


"advocac"? "goodnes"?

They can't spell simple words and yet they think they're going to successfully annihilate us? Huh . . .



Roxas_XIII
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18 Aug 2008, 4:19 pm

I'm sure that if it ever came to war, our superior intellect would be our guide to victory. It would be like Lelouch Lamperouge employing tactical superiority to wipe out an entire squadron of Britannian Knights... and winning a game of online chess at the same time.


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18 Aug 2008, 5:03 pm

That wasn't hate speech. It was in response to a joke of a ficticious disease...the parental spectrum.

http://www.autismspeaks.org/community/f ... 544&page=3

Then it turns into comments that I'm not sure is joking or not.



ShadesOfMe
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21 Aug 2008, 4:37 am

Anything having to do with Autism Speaks makes me feel extremely sad. I can only hope that in the upcoming years there will be no Autism Speaks.



LePetitPrince
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21 Aug 2008, 9:43 am

I read studies that link vaccination with Autism and other Autism refutes the vaccination theories ...but none prove the other wrong , even the studies that refutes vaccination conclude that more research should be done about the vaccination , one of them might be wrong or maybe both of them are correct (maybe vaccin trigger some autism genes) . Any scientific theory remains correct till it's proven otherwise .

I am not sure , but I heard that mercury in vaccins were stopped in 2004 in US, if there was a ZERO link between vaccinations and SOME autism cases , if mercury in vaccination is really that harmless then why the pharmacy industry stopped it?

Besides, there are hunderds of parent's testimonies saying that their children were used to speak few words and they stopped since they took the vaccinations, are all these cases concidental? Maybe ...maybe not!

Besides, that Pharameutical industry have more benifit in support the "anti-cure" supporters, so maybe that's why there are more studies that refutes vaccination theory.


My whole point, is Autism speaks have their cause and their beliefs and most of you here have their cause and their beliefs but none side has a total scientific proof that it's correct.

Besides, maybe some LFA and HFAs WANT to be cured.

So stop doing crusade an curist sites.



Ishmael
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21 Aug 2008, 10:05 am

Quote:
I read studies that link vaccination with Autism and other Autism refutes the vaccination theories ...but none prove the other wrong , even the studies that refutes vaccination conclude that more research should be done about the vaccination , one of them might be wrong or maybe both of them are correct (maybe vaccin trigger some autism genes) . Any scientific theory remains correct till it's proven otherwise .

I am not sure , but I heard that mercury in vaccins were stopped in 2004 in US, if there was a ZERO link between vaccinations and SOME autism cases , if mercury in vaccination is really that harmless then why the pharmacy industry stopped it?

Besides, there are hunderds of parent's testimonies saying that their children were used to speak few words and they stopped since they took the vaccinations, are all these cases concidental? Maybe ...maybe not!

Besides, that Pharameutical industry have more benifit in support the "anti-cure" supporters, so maybe that's why there are more studies that refutes vaccination theory.


My whole point, is Autism speaks have their cause and their beliefs and most of you here have their cause and their beliefs but none side has a total scientific proof that it's correct.

Besides, maybe some LFA and HFAs WANT to be cured.

So stop doing crusade an curist sites.


Have you spoken to curists? The amount of hatred they display, especially once they know you're an "autistic fraud" (aspie).
These people are, in my opinion, monsters. Barbarians.
The reason pharmacutical companies and scientists are pretending to consider mercury: PR and lawsuits.
They just want these violent imbeciles to be silenced. Not going to happen; not unless we gas a lot of the bastards.
One person I spoke to, whose autistic child was no worse off than many autistics I've met, no worse off then my brother, was talking about "euthanasia". These people are... terrifying, in that they do such wrong, such evil - yet thoroughly believe their actions are good and just.


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21 Aug 2008, 11:21 am

LePetitPrince wrote:
Any scientific theory remains correct till it's proven otherwise .

Other way around. Any scientific theory is false until proven otherwise.

Quote:
I am not sure , but I heard that mercury in vaccins were stopped in 2004 in US, if there was a ZERO link between vaccinations and SOME autism cases , if mercury in vaccination is really that harmless then why the pharmacy industry stopped it?

To appease obnoxious conspiracy theorists who wouldn't shut the hell up. BTW, these same folks will claim that there's still mercury in the shots.

Quote:
Besides, there are hunderds of parent's testimonies saying that their children were used to speak few words and they stopped since they took the vaccinations, are all these cases concidental? Maybe ...maybe not!

Perhaps because the onset of observable autistic traits is usually a little after one year of age (including for unvaccinated children) and there's routinely a round of vaccines at about one year of age?

Quote:
Besides, that Pharameutical industry have more benifit in support the "anti-cure" supporters, so maybe that's why there are more studies that refutes vaccination theory.

Feel free to research where Wakefield got the funding for his research suggesting a link between vaccines and autism.

Quote:
Besides, maybe some LFA and HFAs WANT to be cured.

You can't cure something that's not a disease. Your argument is identical to the people who claimed that some gay people WANTED to be cured.


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LePetitPrince
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21 Aug 2008, 1:51 pm

Orwell wrote:
LePetitPrince wrote:
Any scientific theory remains correct till it's proven otherwise .

Other way around. Any scientific theory is false until proven otherwise.


A scientific theory is false until is supported by enough evidences.
Any scientific theory or hypothesis that supported by many evidences is true till it's proven false , that's the basic of scientific method.
I am talking about 2 theories supported by evidences.



Quote:
I am not sure , but I heard that mercury in vaccins were stopped in 2004 in US, if there was a ZERO link between vaccinations and SOME autism cases , if mercury in vaccination is really that harmless then why the pharmacy industry stopped it?

Quote:
To appease obnoxious conspiracy theorists who wouldn't shut the hell up. BTW, these same folks will claim that there's still mercury in the shots.



C'mon, since when the pharmaceutical industry were that sensitives and humanists or even listen to conspiracy theorists ? They want so such a huge precautions unless if they doubt in something. And maybe something else in vaccines causing autism , there was even a suggestion that flu vaccines and even some food may cause autism during embryonic stage


Quote:
Dr. Bryan Jepson calls it the 'multiple hit' hypothesis.Imagine an embryo with genetically susceptible chromosomes that prevent it from detoxifying normally. The embryo is exposed to toxins like mercury from maternal fish consumption and maternal amalgams, mercury from the mother’s flu vaccine and possibly her rhogam shot, antibiotics given to the mother, and other placental toxins. Combined with toxins the baby is exposed to after birth, these exposures start to weaken the immune system of a susceptible child, creating early inflammation. The baby accumulates some of the toxins that they can’t excrete. The immune system and the detoxification system really take months before they start to become mature. As the child gets older, he or she receives many more immunizations. Food antigens are introduced, like casein from cow’s milk. The child gets repeated viral infections. They develop chronic ear infections and are given multiple courses of antibiotics. The antibiotics damage their gut even more, allowing more toxins to enter their system. The child develops a leaky gut, tissue damage gets worse, the immune system grows weaker, and autoimmune reactions start. Then a lot of children experience a catastrophic event. Either in the form of a significant illness or a live virus vaccine. The immune system is overwhelmed and the child rapidly goes downhill. Some parents report a gradual deterioration, but many children seem to develop autism after a particular event. They go into the hospital or they get an MMR shot and they’re never the same again. Autism is the end result of this developing series of reactions.



http://autism.about.com/od/vaccinesanda ... ouse_2.htm




Quote:
Besides, there are hundreds of parent's testimonies saying that their children were used to speak few words and they stopped since they took the vaccinations, are all these cases concidental? Maybe ...maybe not!

Quote:
Perhaps because the onset of observable autistic traits is usually a little after one year of age (including for unvaccinated children) and there's routinely a round of vaccines at about one year of age?


Maybe ...maybe no..... but many parents claim that their babies were used to have some vocab and they stopped and turned to non-verbal auties after vaccination.



Quote:
Quote:
Besides, that Pharameutical industry have more benifit in support the "anti-cure" supporters, so maybe that's why there are more studies that refute vaccination theory.

Feel free to research where Wakefield got the funding for his research suggesting a link between vaccines and autism.


Give me a link



Quote:
Quote:
Besides, maybe some LFA and HFAs WANT to be cured.

You can't cure something that's not a disease. Your argument is identical to the people who claimed that some gay people WANTED to be cured.


It's a disorder and true most neural disorders can't be cured but you can't just refuse the cure possibility just because you believe that it can't be cured with no scientific basis.

Btw, I am not arguing whether autism can be cured and can't be cure ....I am arguing that what's causing it is still UNKNOWN.
http://autism.about.com/od/whatisautism ... causes.htm

It might be caused by vaccines but can't be cured or it can be caused by genes but can cured , or it can be caused by both genes and environmental factors but can't be cure , maybe it's the beginning of a sub-species (yet there is no evolutionary advantage of being social inept while social skills are more and more crucial to success in work and dating)....etc .etc ...etc there are too much combination of possibilities.

The problem that you want to believe that autism is a 'bless' or 'difference' and that we are just born different .....nice faith really but I can't follow faiths blindly



Scott_R92
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21 Aug 2008, 5:17 pm

Hey, if we're damaged because of a lack of empathy and emotion, why haven't we gutted these "Autism Reeks" guys?

Anyway, I find my focus and determination, lack of pain sensitivity, generally easily-aroused Anger (<---EMOTION<---), and photographic memory to be quite useful, especially in maintaining control over a situation, beating the sorry pants off of a completely NT "brain-damaged" (in the general sense, not a real brain-damaged person, because they aren't NT.) gangbanger, and staying a step ahead of nearly every kid in my pop. 30,000 town. I find THEM to be undeveloped. Most people my age still think shouting "I love you" to a random stranger on the street is funny. :roll:


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Orwell
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21 Aug 2008, 6:05 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:
C'mon, since when the pharmaceutical industry were that sensitives and humanists or even listen to conspiracy theorists ? They want so such a huge precautions unless if they doubt in something.

Because the paranoia and quackery was causing many parents to refuse to vaccinate their children, resulting in outbreaks of easily preventable illnesses.
Quote:
And maybe something else in vaccines causing autism , there was even a suggestion that flu vaccines and even some food may cause autism during embryonic stage

Initially it was claimed that MMR causes autism, later the claims were that it was mercury (which MMR never contained). The vaccine nuts will continue making those claims, and simply find a new chemical bogeyman as time goes on.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Besides, that Pharameutical industry have more benifit in support the "anti-cure" supporters, so maybe that's why there are more studies that refute vaccination theory.

Feel free to research where Wakefield got the funding for his research suggesting a link between vaccines and autism.


Give me a link

Wakefield's study was funded by a law firm that was trying to sue vaccine manufacturers. Conflict of interest perhaps?

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Besides, maybe some LFA and HFAs WANT to be cured.

You can't cure something that's not a disease. Your argument is identical to the people who claimed that some gay people WANTED to be cured.


It's a disorder and true most neural disorders can't be cured but you can't just refuse the cure possibility just because you believe that it can't be cured with no scientific basis.

Homosexuality was listed as a disorder for a long time. I'm not claiming it can't be cured "with no scientific basis" I am saying that, by definition, it can not be cured if it is not a disease. Perhaps it would be possible someday to change autistics into neurotypicals. That wouldn't be curing them, it would be changing them. Just as making gay people straight (if it were possible) wouldn't cure them, because they aren't diseased.

Quote:
The problem that you want to believe that autism is a 'bless' or 'difference' and that we are just born different .....nice faith really but I can't follow faiths blindly

Not necessarily a blessing, no, but it is a difference. The genetic link with autism seems to be almost undeniable, and the vaccine conspiracy theory has next to no evidence for it.


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21 Aug 2008, 6:33 pm

alex wrote:
LeKiwi,

They get away with that type of thinking because they see us as damaged an incomplete people. It's the same way black people were viewed by many people in the south during the Jim Crow period and before and the same way gay people are viewed by quite a few people in uneducated communities.


I don't disagree with what you have said other than there are plenty of highly educated bigots. My uncle has a masters degree and he is the biggest bigot I know. I live in South Carolina so that is saying a-lot.



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27 Aug 2008, 8:38 pm

Call me a coward, but I think it's time we fell silent for a while. Like it or not, the most popular view of Asperger's is that of a fake disorder, including other forms of autism (no thanks to those who self-diagnose, as a way to excuse themselves). This attitude within a few years will be present in mainstream society, affecting our employment and ability to form friendships. Is either of those, at least the first, worth throwing away trying to prove them wrong?

This autism rights movement, founded on good intentions, has turned the populace against us; and we are beginning to wear out their patience. Many of us here can live on our own; don't you think it's just better to omit that we are autistic? Better to be seen as eccentric than broken or pathetic.



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27 Aug 2008, 9:04 pm

Enki76 wrote:
Call me a coward, but I think it's time we fell silent for a while. Like it or not, the most popular view of Asperger's is that of a fake disorder, including other forms of autism (no thanks to those who self-diagnose, as a way to excuse themselves). This attitude within a few years will be present in mainstream society, affecting our employment and ability to form friendships. Is either of those, at least the first, worth throwing away trying to prove them wrong?

This autism rights movement, founded on good intentions, has turned the populace against us; and we are beginning to wear out their patience. Many of us here can live on our own; don't you think it's just better to omit that we are autistic? Better to be seen as eccentric than broken or pathetic.


My brother is autistic and incapable of living on his own. Does that make him broken and pathetic? Autistic rights are not only for hfa, but to try and prevent abuse of lfa, too. Just rolling over and giving up invites back the days of lobotomy, almost.


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