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LeKiwi
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15 Sep 2008, 8:09 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7613201.stm

Disgusting.

Do they really think people can't think for themselves and tell when they're on a dodgy site? Do they really think we need some kind of a large, centralised censor? Are we scaring them that much? The internet is about the final pillar of free speech we have - this is such an appalling, scary thought, I can't believe it. I really can't. It makes me feel ill.


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RogueProcess
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15 Sep 2008, 9:02 pm

I don't think he is advocating censorship at all here. Merely a way for users to easily be able to tell if a site is relatively trustworthy or not.



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15 Sep 2008, 10:02 pm

I can't picture Tim Berners Lee being in favour of censorship.

Having read the article, it looks like he is talking about some kind of web based peer review but of websites not articles, and not about censorship.

L.



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15 Sep 2008, 10:36 pm

Somebody once said that the problem with some people is not what they don't know, it's what they do know that just isn't so...

I find it ironic that LeKiwi posted this because she has obviously been affected by serious misinformation concerning the medical profession, which will work to her detriment if she ever needs medical attention...

The worst misinformation is medical, such as the anti-vaccine movement and all the hucksters who claim to be able to cure supposedly incurable ailments using herbal and other unapproved remedies that at best don't work, and at worst can be more harmful than the ailment they supposedly cure. Legal misinformation, such as the tripe put out by tax protesters, can have devastating effects for those who rely on it. Wesley Snipes is a perfect example of this...

I think that instead of censorship, there ought to be a law stating that one needs to be licensed to practice medicine before giving medical advice on the web, and licensed to practice law before giving legal advice...



LeKiwi
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16 Sep 2008, 2:25 am

It is a form of censorship - the internet should remain how it is; with anyone able to post anything (good, bad or ugly), with the exception of things like kiddie-porn which are illegal anyway, and people left to make up their own minds. We don't need the nany government trend of the western world extending to the internet. People don't need to be told what sites are reliable and what aren't, because who would be the judge? Seriously, who would be ranking these sites? Big industry, big business, government - anything that might undermine the status quo and give alternative points of view will get the instant low rankings, anything promoting big business interests will be the high rankings, and suddenly internet neutrality - the thing that makes it so wonderful and such a bastian of freedom - will be gone.

People should be their own judge. This is just Codex all over again.


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Macbeth
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16 Sep 2008, 7:42 am

Censorship of the net would just be the banning or removal of sites, the filtering and blocking of content. I think what this man is suggesting is just a more.. intellectual version of the way google works. A peer review perhaps.

Sadly "freedom of speech" is often just another term for "this is my opinion and frankly its utter bollocks but if i say it enough, and loudest, then it will be right." Any idiot with net access and some wildly apocryphal or staggeringly misinformed belief can shout it from the data mountaintops, and if it is presented in the right way, everyone else will believe it.

Contrary to popular belief, an opinion CAN be wrong, if it is based on erroneous information, and being the loudest does not mean you are the most correct, and I would welcome the advice and suggestions of people with knowledge in various areas, letting me know if they think a site is utter balls or not. I would not advocate the arbitrary closure of sites as such, nor the use of such a group as a banhammer. Rather I think it should be an independent site or body, preferably international, in which a democratically selected panel of experts on various subjects give their educated opinion on whether a site is spouting s**t or not. (As opposed to just other net users doing it, which is not so helpful.)

Or perhaps a search engine which presents sites in order of preference according to the judgement of such a panel? You would be under no obligation to use it, but it would be there if you needed it.

Although to be honest, if you cant search the opinions of the educated and knowledgeable on your own, and just believe the first thing you see, you deserve to die in a collapsing building at the wrong end of a stolen plane controlled by imaginary muslim puppets of the reverse-vampire neo-nazi zionist illuminati space aliens.


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16 Sep 2008, 8:32 am

I am anti-censorship and pro-free expression.


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16 Sep 2008, 1:21 pm

hmmm

Quote:
The Foundation will also look at concerns that the web has become less democratic, and its use influenced too much by large corporations and vested interests.



I was going to start yelling NO MAINSTREAMER HAS THE RIGHT TO IMPOSE THEIR BS ON OUR INTERNET and the like, thinking it was that UN-Chine working to fight anoymity story
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040 ... ag=nl.e703

EDIT: what is 'misinformation' would get grey REEALLL quick.


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16 Sep 2008, 1:31 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7613201.stm

Disgusting.

Do they really think people can't think for themselves and tell when they're on a dodgy site? Do they really think we need some kind of a large, centralised censor? Are we scaring them that much? The internet is about the final pillar of free speech we have - this is such an appalling, scary thought, I can't believe it. I really can't. It makes me feel ill.


I'm there with ya LeKiwi... I cannot believe it.. one more freedom bites the dust... this is absolutely f*****g ridiculous.. the internet wil not be an enjoyable place to be.. i do not want the authority's version of what happened in history, because it is almost always wrong.. you need different perspectives to get the truth, not one, not two, sometimes three.. :x :x :x :x seriously.. what happened to thinking for ourselves?.. do you really think they would care what we think that much if we weren't a threat to them?... i think we are scaring them more than we think. I bet there are spies all over the place, including here.



LeKiwi
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16 Sep 2008, 3:44 pm

ShawnWilliam wrote:
LeKiwi wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7613201.stm

Disgusting.

Do they really think people can't think for themselves and tell when they're on a dodgy site? Do they really think we need some kind of a large, centralised censor? Are we scaring them that much? The internet is about the final pillar of free speech we have - this is such an appalling, scary thought, I can't believe it. I really can't. It makes me feel ill.


I'm there with ya LeKiwi... I cannot believe it.. one more freedom bites the dust... this is absolutely f***ing ridiculous.. the internet wil not be an enjoyable place to be.. i do not want the authority's version of what happened in history, because it is almost always wrong.. you need different perspectives to get the truth, not one, not two, sometimes three.. :x :x :x :x seriously.. what happened to thinking for ourselves?.. do you really think they would care what we think that much if we weren't a threat to them?... i think we are scaring them more than we think. I bet there are spies all over the place, including here.


Dunno about here... we're just a bunch of social ret*ds, and nobody listens to social ret*ds, right? ;)
[I use that phrase sarcastically]

It's just appalling. Seriously. Do they really think people can't make up their own minds what to believe? Do we really need them forcing their s**t on us online as well? The internet is based on freedom, rightly or wrongly. There's plenty published on the internet that I don't agree with or don't like or that's untrue, but I would fight like hell to keep it there without any panel passing judgement on its credibility - we need balance, we need stories, people need to be able to express their opinions.

Also, you have to remember that Codex Alimentarius is due to impose some pretty major laws at the end of next year - this could well be a part of that so people can't get both the products themselves and the information on what they're missing out on either? Just a thought.

Macbeth wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, an opinion CAN be wrong, if it is based on erroneous information, and being the loudest does not mean you are the most correct


Very true, but can't you see that that's exactly what they'll be doing anyway? Imposing their beliefs and opinions on us, shouting them as loudly as they can so people think they're right?


I'd be fine if it was just a 'peer reviewed version of google', that's not a problem and I'd welcome that. But the internet must be left how it is so people can make their own minds up.

I just feel more and more claustraphobic in this world. It's like government and industry are smothering our very minds and beliefs and opinions as well as our day-to-day lives... it's such a horrible feeling.


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ShawnWilliam
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16 Sep 2008, 3:50 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
ShawnWilliam wrote:
LeKiwi wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7613201.stm

Disgusting.

Do they really think people can't think for themselves and tell when they're on a dodgy site? Do they really think we need some kind of a large, centralised censor? Are we scaring them that much? The internet is about the final pillar of free speech we have - this is such an appalling, scary thought, I can't believe it. I really can't. It makes me feel ill.


I'm there with ya LeKiwi... I cannot believe it.. one more freedom bites the dust... this is absolutely f***ing ridiculous.. the internet wil not be an enjoyable place to be.. i do not want the authority's version of what happened in history, because it is almost always wrong.. you need different perspectives to get the truth, not one, not two, sometimes three.. :x :x :x :x seriously.. what happened to thinking for ourselves?.. do you really think they would care what we think that much if we weren't a threat to them?... i think we are scaring them more than we think. I bet there are spies all over the place, including here.


Dunno about here... we're just a bunch of social ret*ds, and nobody listens to social ret*ds, right? ;)
[I use that phrase sarcastically]

It's just appalling. Seriously. Do they really think people can't make up their own minds what to believe? Do we really need them forcing their sh** on us online as well? The internet is based on freedom, rightly or wrongly. There's plenty published on the internet that I don't agree with or don't like or that's untrue, but I would fight like hell to keep it there without any panel passing judgement on its credibility - we need balance, we need stories, people need to be able to express their opinions.

Also, you have to remember that Codex Alimentarius is due to impose some pretty major laws at the end of next year - this could well be a part of that so people can't get both the products themselves and the information on what they're missing out on either? Just a thought.

Macbeth wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, an opinion CAN be wrong, if it is based on erroneous information, and being the loudest does not mean you are the most correct


Very true, but can't you see that that's exactly what they'll be doing anyway? Imposing their beliefs and opinions on us, shouting them as loudly as they can so people think they're right?


I'd be fine if it was just a 'peer reviewed version of google', that's not a problem and I'd welcome that. But the internet must be left how it is so people can make their own minds up.

I just feel more and more claustraphobic in this world. It's like government and industry are smothering our very minds and beliefs and opinions as well as our day-to-day lives... it's such a horrible feeling.


I should point out that Google is already s**t when it comes to researching things.. every time i google something where i want a very straightforward answere i always get wikipedia, and then a bunch of other sites which go against the thing im trying to prove. You know how much of a crazy conspiracy loon I am, well every google site that pops up is anti- 'whatever it is im researching'.. bizzarre. google is already censored and biased. they want to suppress our opinions, but they do it to us without us even knowing it, with google the news, and newspapers, magazines.. f**k them.



LeKiwi
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16 Sep 2008, 4:15 pm

It's a pain in the ass, I know. I usually search through 'alternative' sites that use the google search engine, like going to naturalnews.com for example and using their search bar. Tends to get much better results.

Oh no, wait, U R T3H RONG! U R CONSPRCY FREAK-LOON!

(Have to keep the status quo somehow don't we? :lol: )


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ShawnWilliam
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16 Sep 2008, 4:40 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
It's a pain in the ass, I know. I usually search through 'alternative' sites that use the google search engine, like going to naturalnews.com for example and using their search bar. Tends to get much better results.

Oh no, wait, U R T3H RONG! U R CONSPRCY FREAK-LOON!

(Have to keep the status quo somehow don't we? :lol: )


I've lost face in the philosophy forum. I just dont care what they think anymore. :lol: meh.. did you know there's been tons of giants found? all over the place.. another conspiracy!.. the arceologists cover it up.. and also human footprints found alongside dinasaur footprints.. one lady lost her job because she made a 'wrong' discovery.. pfft.. what a stupid boring world this is. Can't even discover the truth if you're a scientist..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P42j9Xl ... re=related

you dont have to watch, but yarr



LeKiwi
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16 Sep 2008, 4:54 pm

*ping* PM. Know all about that one...

(Dinosaurs, not giants... don't know about that one... I'm tiny :lol: )


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ShawnWilliam
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16 Sep 2008, 5:03 pm

LeKiwi wrote:
*ping* PM. Know all about that one...

(Dinosaurs, not giants... don't know about that one... I'm tiny :lol: )


ahah :P me too.. compared to these giant monolith creatures. but they are written about in the bible, so it is not like there isn't any background information on them.. just not what arceologists want to discover.. which is why we dont here about it >.> grrRrr



LeKiwi
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16 Sep 2008, 5:35 pm

Where in the bible does it say that? Not that I have a bible, but I'm sure I can get one easily enough.


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