What attributes and characteristics makes a woman a woman?

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MemberSix
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02 Oct 2008, 5:57 pm

Adrenaline wrote:
What attributes and characteristics makes a woman a woman?
you may think this a silly question, but besides the obvious,
What attributes and characteristics makes a woman a woman?
ReallY?

The biological genderisation process is two-stage.
Primary genderisation occurs in the womb and is largely cerebral in influence.
Hence little boys think and behave differently from little girls.

Secondary genderisation is largely corporeal, with hormones producing secondary sexual characteristics - testicular descent, semen production, voice break, musculo-skeletal developments, hairiness, etc, etc.

Women have evolved to be the gatherer to the man's hunter.
Gatherers (unsurprisingly) enjoy shopping (and have superior 2-D/pattern-recognition).
Hunters (unsurprisingly) enjoy hunting - or in its modern-day form, sport (and have superior 3-D/spatial capabilities to judge the speed and distance of woolly-mammoths or football trajectories).

Women are child (and people)-orientated - to maintain family harmony/cohesion.
Men are technology-orientated to make tools/weapons/traps to bring the bacon home.

If you want to understand what makes women women and men men, you could do worse than study gay and transgendered folk.



cathylynn
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27 Jul 2015, 2:49 pm

Fnord wrote:
Two X chromosomes.

It doesn't matter if she is surgically altered to look like a man (complete with urinary appendage), she is still female ... pretending to be a man.

By the same token, a single Y chromosome makes the person male, and all the surgury and hormone replacement therapy does not change that simple fact.

It's like owning an Apple computer, running Windows on it, and pretending that it's a PC.

In any case, genetics is the determining factor.

please catch up with what we now know. a person can be XX and have a male brain.



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27 Jul 2015, 9:23 pm

A girl is a minor with a vajayjay & a women is an adult with a vajayjay


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nerdygirl
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28 Jul 2015, 9:34 am

The mark of a woman is menstruation. If you have never had to worry about getting your period - either wondering why it has come too early or too late or not at all when it should have, you are not a woman.

And as far as "identifying" as a woman goes, if you cannot identify with the above, you cannot identify as a woman.

'Nuff said.



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28 Jul 2015, 9:50 am

I feel this a trick question, no answer you give won't piss somebody off. I'll just say I'm not in charge of making this determination and it doesn't really matter what I think individually.



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28 Jul 2015, 5:27 pm

Someone seems to be on a mission...


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kamiyu910
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28 Jul 2015, 5:40 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I feel this a trick question, no answer you give won't piss somebody off. I'll just say I'm not in charge of making this determination and it doesn't really matter what I think individually.


Yeah... this.


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28 Jul 2015, 6:27 pm

Sir_Beefy wrote:
Having XX chomosomes. THAT IS IT. NOTHING else. [...]
Lacking a Y chromosome on the 23rd chromosome set, to be more precise. It is possible to have three or more X chromosomes in the 23rd set and still be female, but introduce even a single Y chromosome to the set and the person is male.

No amount of belief, hormone replacement therapy, or reassignment surgery will make any difference, one way or the other.

And if it's the presence or absence of a person's reproductive ability that determines whether they are a man or a woman, keep in mind those people who have lost their reproductive organs through accident or disease - a woman who has lost her uterus or ovaries is still a woman, and a man who has lost his penis or testicles is still a man.



animalcrackers
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28 Jul 2015, 7:38 pm

cathylynn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Two X chromosomes.

It doesn't matter if she is surgically altered to look like a man (complete with urinary appendage), she is still female ... pretending to be a man.

By the same token, a single Y chromosome makes the person male, and all the surgury and hormone replacement therapy does not change that simple fact.

It's like owning an Apple computer, running Windows on it, and pretending that it's a PC.

In any case, genetics is the determining factor.

please catch up with what we now know. a person can be XX and have a male brain.


A male can also have two X chromosomes, one of those X chromosomes having the SRY gene that causes him to develop a penis and testicles in utero. (Although he might need testosterone during puberty to develop male secondary sex characteristics like facial hair).

Women can have one X and one Y chromosome and female genitals -- in Swyer Syndrom and Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. (They, too, would need estrogen at puberty.)

People can also have mosaicism or chimerism in their sex chromosomes -- meaning some cells in their body have the XX karyotype, while others have the XY karyotype (they may have more than two karyotypes, too -- includeing XO, or XXY). Their bodies may develop to have mostly female sex characteristics, mostly male sex characteristics, or more ambiguous sex characteristics.

Even experts in fields like endocrinology (probably not all of them, but definitely some of them -- I don't know about numbers/ratios) conceptualize biological sex (whether or not you include the brain and gender identity as part of that) as a complex and fragmented thing rather than something black and white. You can't say that any one sexually dimorphic physical structure absolutely determines the sex of the whole person/whole body, because each sexually dimorphic part of a person's body can be feminized or masculinized separate from the other sexually dimorphic structures (including chromosomes, in a way -- because of things like: Translocation of genetic material like SRY that results in XX males; Alterations in the functioning of specific genes like the androgen receptor gene that results in AIS, or nonfunctional SRY gene that results in Swyer Syndrome; XX/XY mosaicism and chimerism; and who knows what else that I'm not aware of or that nobody is aware of yet that may be discovered in the future).


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30 Jul 2015, 8:43 am

MemberSix wrote:
Women have evolved to be the gatherer to the man's hunter.
Gatherers (unsurprisingly) enjoy shopping (and have superior 2-D/pattern-recognition).
Hunters (unsurprisingly) enjoy hunting - or in its modern-day form, sport (and have superior 3-D/spatial capabilities to judge the speed and distance of woolly-mammoths or football trajectories).

Women are child (and people)-orientated - to maintain family harmony/cohesion.
Men are technology-orientated to make tools/weapons/traps to bring the bacon home.


Data please?

From what I know of human evolution, it's not nearly that simple. For example, did you know that the skeletons of Neanderthal women have just as many hunting-related injuries as those of Neanderthal men?

In addition, although boys act less nurturing towards babies, both sexes are equally nurturing towards pets. Since we only act nurturing towards pets because they unconsciously remind us of babies, it's clear that boys could be just as nurturing to babies, if they didn't see nurturing babies as a 'girl thing'.



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30 Jul 2015, 8:51 am

animalcrackers wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Two X chromosomes.

It doesn't matter if she is surgically altered to look like a man (complete with urinary appendage), she is still female ... pretending to be a man.

By the same token, a single Y chromosome makes the person male, and all the surgury and hormone replacement therapy does not change that simple fact.

It's like owning an Apple computer, running Windows on it, and pretending that it's a PC.

In any case, genetics is the determining factor.

please catch up with what we now know. a person can be XX and have a male brain.


A male can also have two X chromosomes, one of those X chromosomes having the SRY gene that causes him to develop a penis and testicles in utero. (Although he might need testosterone during puberty to develop male secondary sex characteristics like facial hair).

Women can have one X and one Y chromosome and female genitals -- in Swyer Syndrom and Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. (They, too, would need estrogen at puberty.)

People can also have mosaicism or chimerism in their sex chromosomes -- meaning some cells in their body have the XX karyotype, while others have the XY karyotype (they may have more than two karyotypes, too -- includeing XO, or XXY). Their bodies may develop to have mostly female sex characteristics, mostly male sex characteristics, or more ambiguous sex characteristics.

Even experts in fields like endocrinology (probably not all of them, but definitely some of them -- I don't know about numbers/ratios) conceptualize biological sex (whether or not you include the brain and gender identity as part of that) as a complex and fragmented thing rather than something black and white. You can't say that any one sexually dimorphic physical structure absolutely determines the sex of the whole person/whole body, because each sexually dimorphic part of a person's body can be feminized or masculinized separate from the other sexually dimorphic structures (including chromosomes, in a way -- because of things like: Translocation of genetic material like SRY that results in XX males; Alterations in the functioning of specific genes like the androgen receptor gene that results in AIS, or nonfunctional SRY gene that results in Swyer Syndrome; XX/XY mosaicism and chimerism; and who knows what else that I'm not aware of or that nobody is aware of yet that may be discovered in the future).


I think this just shows how little we know about genetics and how young the field really is.

Yet, for millennia, people have been able to distinguish between healthy men and women based on their physical parts and sexual function.

Gender roles and expectations seem to be based on society & culture.



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30 Jul 2015, 9:40 am

Sir_Beefy wrote:
Having XX chomosomes. THAT IS IT. NOTHING else. Society is a bunch of crap. If you asked what are typical hobbies of women on this forum, thats different. But society tells us what to think every day, and I don't buy it for a second.


This.

It's genetics. Whether you "feel" your gender is a personal matter.



LoveNotHate
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30 Jul 2015, 8:07 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
Sir_Beefy wrote:
Having XX chomosomes. THAT IS IT. NOTHING else. Society is a bunch of crap. If you asked what are typical hobbies of women on this forum, thats different. But society tells us what to think every day, and I don't buy it for a second.


This.

It's genetics. Whether you "feel" your gender is a personal matter.


But there are XX males
'XX_male_syndrome'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome

So by this logic, these men are women ?



steelysunshine
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30 Jul 2015, 8:37 pm

I think it's a silly thing to worry about. Let NT people figure it out. They seem to be the ones that have to classify everyone into a group.



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30 Jul 2015, 11:29 pm

For a woman to be a woman, she must be cisgendered and proud of her gender and private parts.


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30 Jul 2015, 11:41 pm

cathylynn wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Two X chromosomes.

It doesn't matter if she is surgically altered to look like a man (complete with urinary appendage), she is still female ... pretending to be a man.

By the same token, a single Y chromosome makes the person male, and all the surgury and hormone replacement therapy does not change that simple fact.

It's like owning an Apple computer, running Windows on it, and pretending that it's a PC.

In any case, genetics is the determining factor.

please catch up with what we now know. a person can be XX and have a male brain.


Really! Please do that. It's statements like these that make me feel that the world hasn't changed for transgendered people over the past 30 years. I'm not pretending to be anything. It's 2015, not 1955. Hormone replacement and therapy changes everything. If I had a Beatle, I'd flick it at you.


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