Asperger Syndrome vs. Borderline Personality Disorder

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DaWalker
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10 May 2010, 3:03 am

sinsboldly wrote:
If I were a suicide I would have by now.
Thank you. :idea:



Mysty
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10 May 2010, 10:56 am

carltcwc wrote:
The only thing they usually have in common is having outbursts of anger, and this isnt even always true. This doesnt mean someone cant have aspergers and borderline, but they dont have much in common. out of the personality disorders schizoid has the most in common with aspergers but schizoid seems more like the negative symptoms of schizophrenia. People with aspergers do seem to score higher on personality disorder tests than most people though. I posted a personality disorder test on here before because i was wondering what other people would score and most people got a high score on at least one of them. The online test is invalid though and nothing like the mmpi which is what is normally used to diagnose personality disorders.


Disorders don't have outbursts of anger. People do. And, being human, people with BPD and people with Asperger's have plenty in common, even if non of it relates to the syndromes.

Though, you admit someone can have both. That seems to make the first sentence rather meaningless. It can't be you mean the people with each. And, like I said, abstract concepts (these labels we use) don't have outbursts of anger.


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10 May 2010, 11:28 am

Autism represents a "spectrum" that fades into what you might call "neurotypicality".

What might someone on the borderline of neurotypicality be like?

Might such a person have enough social ability to initiate relationships, but not maintain them?



katzefrau
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10 May 2010, 2:26 pm

Poke wrote:
Autism represents a "spectrum" that fades into what you might call "neurotypicality".

What might someone on the borderline of neurotypicality be like?


the word borderline as it's used in BPD refers to the borderline of neurosis and psychosis, not the borderline of autism and neurotypicality.


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Mysty
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10 May 2010, 4:01 pm

katzefrau wrote:
Poke wrote:
Autism represents a "spectrum" that fades into what you might call "neurotypicality".

What might someone on the borderline of neurotypicality be like?


the word borderline as it's used in BPD refers to the borderline of neurosis and psychosis, not the borderline of autism and neurotypicality.


Actually, it originally referred to that, but now it doesn't refer to anything. BPD is no longer conceived of that way.


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10 May 2010, 5:20 pm

I wasn't suggesting an etymology for the term "borderline" as it applies to BPD--I "bolded" it simply because, well, it's a pleasing coincidence.

(Pleasing to me, of course)



hrmpk
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10 May 2010, 6:13 pm

Thanks for being confusing as hell, poke.



Athenacapella
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10 May 2010, 7:25 pm

I almost think that any clinician who sees a woman who has social problems as automatically BPD. Aspie women are dramatically undiagnosed. I am hoping this is something that will change over the next 10 years. Of course, it'll no longer be called "Asperger's" then ...



katzefrau
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10 May 2010, 7:42 pm

Athenacapella wrote:
I almost think that any clinician who sees a woman who has social problems as automatically BPD. Aspie women are dramatically undiagnosed. I am hoping this is something that will change over the next 10 years. Of course, it'll no longer be called "Asperger's" then ...


if this article (<link) is any indication, women may remain underdiagnosed. it seems the ideas behind the change in the DSM (folding Asperger's into the greater autism spectrum) are 1. to err on the side of underdiagnosis rather than overdiagnosis, and 2. ease fears of an "autism epidemic" (rather than clarify that Asperger's is actually autism). i hope i'm wrong.

i am convinced, though, that any female behavior indicative of "something wrong" is assumed to be an emotionally based reaction and assessed as such. i did this to myself for many years, as there really is no other model for interpreting female behavior.


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11 May 2010, 9:17 am

Here's how I see it.

We (people in general) have different types of thinking. There's intellectual thinking, social thinking, and emotional thinking.

With AS, there's a tendency to use intellectual thinking more than social thinking. For some of us, we are weak in social thinking. For some, we're exceptional at intellectual thinking and so tend to use that. For some, there's a weakness in reading the inputs that social thinking uses (non-verbal cues). Or maybe distractions (sensitivities). And there may be moments of emotional thinking (tantrums and melt downs), but the general tendency is towards intellectual thinking.

There's a lack of balance in between the 3 types of thinking. Growing, healing, "cure" (different but overlapping concepts), these come from learning to better balance the 3 types of thinking. This may include learning to trust our social thinking more. This may include learning workarounds for weak social thinking. And it means each part of the mind, with it's type of thinking, listening to what the other parts of the mind, with their different ways of thinking, have to say, and working together, rather than one type of thinking taking over.

With BPD, there's also a lack of balance between these types of thinking. The person with BPD (if they don't also have AS) doesn't have a weakness in social thinking. But they have a weakness in emotional thinking, or maybe an inability to balance it with the other types of thinking. So, they do fine in social relationships that don't trigger strong emotions, but closer relationships, they get into emotional thinking without balancing it with social thinking and intellectual thinking. At least sometimes.

So, both BPD and AS have a problem with balancing social thinking, intellectual thinking, and emotional thinking. But the patterns are different. With both, though, improvement can be found in learning to find that balance. A complication in that, though, is being different from normal. With AS, I think basically everyone on the spectrum has innate differences. With BPD, it may be that some do, some don't. Those innate differences make it harder to learn to find the balance, simply because it's harder to find role models.

I think that similarity, that both are helped by finding that balance (even if they are in a way very different) is why learning about BPD, and about strategies for healing for those with BPD, helped me so much in becoming less autistic. Oh, I still have my innate differences. But I've found a better balance.


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11 May 2010, 9:19 am

hrmpk wrote:
Thanks for being confusing as hell, poke.


Confusing as hell? Interesting response to one of the most insightful posts to this thread.

Ah well.



Mysty
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11 May 2010, 9:25 am

Poke wrote:
hrmpk wrote:
Thanks for being confusing as hell, poke.


Confusing as hell? Interesting response to one of the most insightful posts to this thread.

Ah well.


I don't think one can really judge if one's own post was insightful. Personally, I can't see what your question about what someone on the border between AS and NT looks like has to do with the topic of the thread. Though, maybe if you shared your thoughts rather than asking a question, we would see insight in what you have to say.


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11 May 2010, 9:28 am

Mysty wrote:
I don't think one can really judge if one's own post was insightful.


Why not?

Quote:
Personally, I can't see what your question about what someone on the border between AS and NT looks like has to do with the topic of the thread.


Then you do not understand the nature of personality disorders.



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11 May 2010, 11:12 am

Poke wrote:
Mysty wrote:
I don't think one can really judge if one's own post was insightful.


Why not?

Quote:
Personally, I can't see what your question about what someone on the border between AS and NT looks like has to do with the topic of the thread.


Then you do not understand the nature of personality disorders.


Or maybe you think you can get inside other people's heads when you can't. You can't know whether your post is insightful without knowing how it's perceived by others. And you can't know if I understand personality disorders by one comment.

My inability to understand what you are thinking without you actually telling us (which you haven't) does not have any relevance to whether or not I understand personality disorders. You saying it does doesn't make it so.

What I don't know is your perception of personality disorders, or of BPD, or of AS. Thus my suggestion that you share your thoughts.

(Not that we are talking about personality disorders in this thread. Just because BPD is labeled a personality disorder doesn't mean it and other socalled personality disorders are truely a unified group. Labeling something some way doesn't give it reality.)


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11 May 2010, 12:33 pm

Oh dear--you are all over the map.

Let me quote the whole of the post in question, which really should need no further explanation:

Quote:
Autism represents a "spectrum" that fades into what you might call "neurotypicality".

What might someone on the borderline of neurotypicality be like?

Might such a person have enough social ability to initiate relationships, but not maintain them?


What are the core features of autism? Restricted activities/interests and ability to socialize.

Since autism represents a "spectrum" that fades into neurotypicality, is it not reasonable to assume that the core features of autism manifest themselves along a parallel "spectrum"? Is it not reasonable to assume that, the closer you are to the "neurotypicality" end of the spectrum, the stronger your socialization abilities are?

Now, once again, what might someone on the borderline of neurotypicality be like? They might have socialization abilities that are close enough to normality to initiate friendships, but not enough to maintain and develop them.

This is all so simple. People just don't understand what autism is. It can be so frustrating.



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11 May 2010, 1:25 pm

Poke wrote:
Oh dear--you are all over the map.

Let me quote the whole of the post in question, which really should need no further explanation:

Quote:
Autism represents a "spectrum" that fades into what you might call "neurotypicality".

What might someone on the borderline of neurotypicality be like?

Might such a person have enough social ability to initiate relationships, but not maintain them?


What are the core features of autism? Restricted activities/interests and ability to socialize.

Since autism represents a "spectrum" that fades into neurotypicality, is it not reasonable to assume that the core features of autism manifest themselves along a parallel "spectrum"? Is it not reasonable to assume that, the closer you are to the "neurotypicality" end of the spectrum, the stronger your socialization abilities are?

Now, once again, what might someone on the borderline of neurotypicality be like? They might have socialization abilities that are close enough to normality to initiate friendships, but not enough to maintain and develop them.

This is all so simple. People just don't understand what autism is. It can be so frustrating.


But what does that have to do with this thread? What does that have to do with how BPD and autism are similiar and different? That's what this thread is about. If you aren't talking about BPD, you shouldn't have posted that here in this thread. If this somehow connects, show us the connection.

Or I can just ignore further posts from you, on grounds that you don't have anything to contribute to this particular discussion.


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