Autistic Girl Kicked out of Girl Scouts

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philosopherBoi
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25 Nov 2008, 1:20 pm

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For two years, Magi Klages, despite having autism, thrived in the Girl Scouts -- an organization that pledges to "help people at all times" and to be "honest and fair, considerate and caring."
But when Magi's Brownie troop grew too large and her parents moved her to a smaller one for children with special needs, they never imagined their 8-year-old would be kicked out.

Michele and Kevin Klages of Oconomowoc, Wis., were told their daughter was a "danger" to the new group's four other children who are all physically disabled.

"We don't get it," said Michele Klages, who always accompanies Magi to Brownie meetings. "She's 30 pounds and we were there. We were told she was scaring the other girls."

When the troop sat down for a mat-weaving project, Magi threw a fit, Michele Klages said, biting herself and running out of the circle.

"She was having moments as most autistic children do," the 42-year-old mother told ABCNews.com. "We pulled her out of the circle and let her have her moment. At one point she got up and ran away and her father got her."

Michele Klages said they felt the Nov. 13 meeting had gone "fairly well" for an autistic child thrust into a new situation. But four days later she got the call that Magi would not be welcome in the new troop.

"To feel like someone doesn't want your child around, it rips your heart out," said Michele Klages, who is also raising a 10-year-old son and holds a part-time office job. "I never expected my child to be discriminated against. Never in a million years."

She said they had been up-front with the group leader about Magi, who is mostly nonverbal and relies on sign language to communicate. They were especially upset to learn the leader has a child with special needs.

"It's terrible," said Michelle Tompkins, a spokeswoman for the Girl Scouts of the United States of America, who said she had received a "courtesy call" from the local council about the incident. "We are very inclusive and have a national policy against all forms of discrimination."

Anita Rodrigues, spokeswoman for the Girl Scouts of Wisconsin Southeast, did not return several phone calls from ABCNews.com. But Michele Klages says the council contacted her about the possibility of finding another troop for Magi to join.

Even the Autism Society of America admits that the Girl Scouts do "wonderful work" with children with disabilities and has often contributed volunteers to help children with this neurological disorder.

It says that children with autism are rarely dangerous to others and that the incident illustrates the need for more support and training in organizations like the Girl Scouts.

"These children are so misunderstood," said Michele Klages. "We need to educate ourselves that these kids can be loving and fun. They should be given a chance like any other child."

Confrontations Sometimes Happen
But while social confrontations like the ones experienced by the Klageses are not common, they happen.
Earlier this year, 13-year-old Adam Race, who is also autistic, was banished from his Minnesota Catholic church. His priest issued a restraining order, saying the teen -- who was 6 feet tall and weighed more than 225 pounds -- hit a child, nearly knocked over an elderly parishioner and spit and urinated in the church.

"My son is not dangerous," Carol Race told The Associated Press. "The church's action is a certain community's fears of him. Fears of danger versus actual danger."

Autism is a complex developmental disability that strikes one in 150 children -- one in 94 boys -- usually before the age of 3, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The disorder takes its greatest toll on a child's social interaction and communication skills.

The numbers of children with autism have dramatically increased in the last decade, but it is not clear if the disease has become more prevalent or if doctors are just getting better at diagnosing.


"Fortunately, we are seeing increased awareness and a greater willingness to understand autism," said Marguerite Colston, spokeswoman for the Autism Society of America, who has an autistic son the same age as Magi.

But with few support services outside the schools, "parents and communities have to figure things out for themselves," Colston told ABCNews.com.

The autism society recently published a booklet -- "Growing Up Together" -- to help children better understand the disorder. It describes "unusual" behaviors, such as difficulty talking or not talking at all, flapping hands, avoiding eye contact and trouble reading facial expressions.


The sound of a school bell may hurt their ears; some have trouble eating food because of taste and smell sensitivities. "On the other hand," according to the booklet, "things that bother most of us, like a bee sting, may not appear to be as painful to them."

Integration and modeling typical children is important, according to Colston. "When children with autism become more and more isolated, the stranger they will be."


Autistic Children Rarely Hurt Others

Like Magi, other children with autism are much more likely to show self-injury and property destruction than hurt others, according to Wayne Fisher, director for the Center for Autism Spectrum Disorders at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.
"We don't see a lot of danger when they integrate," he told ABCNews.com. "These are unusual cases."

"They are likely to display strong emotional reactions to new situations and changes in environment," Fisher said.

Magi might well have adapted to her new Girl Scout troop after several more visits, as routine is important, he said.

"But their behaviors are not well understood by the general public and it makes them uncomfortable."

And research shows that typical children also benefit from interacting with autistic children, showing improvements in patience, social skills and communication.

Michael Alessandri, executive director of University of Miami's Center for Autism and Related Disorders, called the Klages' incident "shocking."

Scouts: Including Autistic Children
"There is no reason a child with autism or any disability couldn't be meaningfully included in Girl Scouts or any other experience like this," Alessandri told ABCNews.com.

"Children with autism are often excluded because of lack of understanding of their needs and because their special needs have not been appropriately accommodated," she said. "We hear of this far too often."

In May, a mother in Port St. Lucie, Fla., considered legal action after her son's kindergarten teacher led his classmates to vote him out of class. Alex Barton, 5, was being evaluated for autism.

"No one is served by this action," said Alessandri. "The child with autism misses out on an opportunity that is rightfully theirs. And others miss out on the joy of learning about people with autism who are always remarkable in so many ways."

Under law, the Girl Scouts -- if it receives federal funding -- is required to make a "reasonable accommodation" for Magi under the Americans With Disabilities Act, according to Alison Barnes, a law professor at Marquette University in Milwaukee, Wis.

Asking Magi to travel a long distance for another troop would not meet the letter of the law, Barnes said.
"What happened here instead is [Magi] got a troop that said, 'OK, we'll try it.' Then after one day they said, 'Never mind, we don't want to do it,'" Barnes told ABCNews.com.

But in a similar case in 2006, a California court struck down a suit filed by parents who claimed their teenage son -- who had a form of autism - was not allowed to attend a weeklong Boy Scout camp.

Lawyers for the troop argued that the boy, "spits, kicks and swears at the other children."

The court dismissed the case, ruling that Boy Scouts -- which also openly discriminates against gays and atheists -- is a private club.

But the Girl Scouts has been historically open to anyone and prides itself on its anti-discrimination policies.

The Klageses say the local council called them this week to help find another troop for Magi.
"They want to work with us and we'll continue to work with them," said Michele Klages. "Magi really wants to be a Girl Scout, but it's important to find a troop that's a good fit for her."

But Magi won't go back to the troop that kicked her out. "These leaders need to be educated and they can't pick which disabilities they want in the troop," her mother said. "It's not their call."
"Every child needs more than one chance in a new situation," she said. "I'm a mother protecting my child. I want people to know this is not something to fear."




Autistic Girl Kicked Out Of The Girl Scouts


I go to say this is just horrible, she is very well behaved girl and they do something so horrid as discriminate against her because she has autism if I ever find that troop leader I am so going into SADIST MODE.



anna-banana
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25 Nov 2008, 1:38 pm

I got kicked out of Girl Scouts too.

<shrug>


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philosopherBoi
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25 Nov 2008, 1:51 pm

anna-banana wrote:
I got kicked out of Girl Scouts too.

<shrug>


But don't you find it disturbing they kicked her out without a good reason?



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25 Nov 2008, 2:19 pm

philosopherBoi wrote:
But don't you find it disturbing they kicked her out without a good reason?


If I were a parent who genuinely felt my child could potentially be harmed by another child I would do exactly the same thing- without regard to the causation of the behavior.
Aside from that, Girl Scouts, Brownie Scouts like the Boy Scouts are private clubs. They have no obligation to honor one persons' membership over another. They can pick and choose who they want.
So the complainant is wrong on a number of levels.



DW_a_mom
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25 Nov 2008, 2:28 pm

While I don't want to see any child discriminated against, you also have to accept that organizations like girl scouts are run solely by volunteers. What these volunteers can handle is going to vary a lot, and they should have the freedom to say, "I'm not sure I have the skills to deal with your unique child; would you look for another placement?"

In this situation, it sounds like the parents stayed at the meeting with the child, and that should have been enough assistance to allow the placement. But the boy scouts, when they didn't allow a special needs child at overnight camp, I understand.

I've taught as a volunteer in various situations and I have had times where there were children I just didn't know how to handle, and that inadequacy of mine most definitely could have put the other kids in danger. I'm not a paid teacher or professional; parents shouldn't be able to count on leaving just any child with me. And that applies to all organizations and services that rely on volunteers.

As unfortunate as it is going to be at times, the parents of the special needs child MUST understand there are limits to what they can ask of volunteers. We are VERY careful about that as parents, when my son engages in activities. We always went with him on overnights, etc., until we were really, really comfortable that he could be there without melting down.


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25 Nov 2008, 2:53 pm

This is one reason the Boy Scouts creeped me out when I was a small child.
{Yes, I vaguely remember that situation. It happened when I was 6 years old.}

It doesn't matter whether your child is male, female, white, black, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, autistic, wheelchair-bound, blind, deaf, mute, etc.

Both associations will kick your child out for a reason
that the association sees as "dangerous" and that the parent
sees as nothing.


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Xanderbeanz
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25 Nov 2008, 3:10 pm

agh they called autism a disease again!



philosopherBoi
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25 Nov 2008, 3:20 pm

My problem with all of this is that she was singled out, if they won't accept her they shouldn't accept any other special needs children but if they accept her they should accept all special needs children. If these troops are for special needs then that is what their function is for to accommodate special needs children to turn a child away because of who they are when they are doing nothing wrong shows that they need to work with these troops and get volunteers with experience leading these troops.



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25 Nov 2008, 3:21 pm

Bummer, isn't it? People may not always like you. (The hard part for some folks is understanding that even if others understand you, they still may not like you.)

That's always a hard thing - as a parent of a spectrum kid and as someone on the spectrum I've seen it from both sides. At the risk of sounding particularly harsh, the world on the whole really doesn't give a damn about your "special needs." If you can fit in, you'll fit in. If you cannot, you will not. There will be some adults, and the occasional child, who will be warm and receptive to a child who is "not normal" - but they're few and far between, from my experience. There are a lot more who will play lip-service to the concept because it's socially the PC thing to do, but it's pretty much artificial and cannot be relied upon for any substantial support unless it serves their interests. The older the child, from my experience, the less empathetic reactions you'll encounter.

There are some very artificial settings (schools, for example) where there is a legislative mandate that says they have to "help" you fit in. They get funded to do that. Once there's not a carrot or a stick involved, a special needs kid is pretty much on their own "out there". Hence, my almost constant warning to parents to try to toughen their kids up at least a little. Rejection is real and it will happen, and if a child (any child, "special" or not) hasn't had to deal with it by the time they hit adolescence, the storm they'll then wander into will just shred them. It sucks, but that's life. It's hard enough being spectrum without wandering into that unawares. Prepare your kids. We can debate how "fair" (life? fair? surely you jest!), or "right" or what "ought to be" until we're all old and grey (ok, greyer). And guess what? :roll:



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25 Nov 2008, 3:40 pm

philosopherBoi wrote:
My problem with all of this is that she was singled out, if they won't accept her they shouldn't accept any other special needs children but if they accept her they should accept all special needs children. If these troops are for special needs then that is what their function is for to accommodate special needs children to turn a child away because of who they are when they are doing nothing wrong shows that they need to work with these troops and get volunteers with experience leading these troops.


Just out of curiosity, who are the "they" in the "they need to work with these troops..."? And who will fund the trainers who will have to go out to "train" the volunteers who may not agree with the premise in the first place?

I do agree, in principle, but these troops are run by parents. If my Aspie kid, who was pretty well behaved, was in a troup where one of the kids acted out constantly, or did something that upset my kid, I don't know that I'd encourage her to go back. If, say, for argument's sake, another child kicked, bit, spit, or engaged in some other offensive or harmful behavior FOR ANY REASON in an ongoing way, I'd have her out of that organization in a heartbeat. Her safety comes first. If it was a non-injurious behavior being displayed, I'd ask her how she felt. If the other child made her uncomfortable in a situation where she was going for the purpose of enjoyment, I'd let her leave if that is what she wanted to do.

I suspect most parents wouldn't do the same - their first reaction would most likely be to ask that the "inappropriate" child be banned. If that didn't happen they'll pull their kids out of any voluntary organization if forced to accept a child they deem unacceptable and form another group, without said child. Just because we think people "ought to" accept differences in people doesn't mean that everyone thinks that way. And that's not something that can be legislated or forced.



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25 Nov 2008, 4:59 pm

philosopherBoi wrote:
My problem with all of this is that she was singled out, if they won't accept her they shouldn't accept any other special needs children but if they accept her they should accept all special needs children. If these troops are for special needs then that is what their function is for to accommodate special needs children to turn a child away because of who they are when they are doing nothing wrong shows that they need to work with these troops and get volunteers with experience leading these troops.


Autism was a different disability than the other children had. The parent running the group probably knew how to deal with physical challenges, but had no idea how to deal with mental ones. Unfortunate, but it's reality. Volunteers, I'm afraid, are in short supply. The odds of getting someone into leadership who is comfortable with autism are pretty darn small. Many, many scout troops sit inactive for lack of leadership. When you try to enroll your child in scouts, the first thing you hear is: "we'd love to reactivate the troop at your child's school! Could you please lead it?" So, while your ideas are worthy, they are not realistic.


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25 Nov 2008, 5:17 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
philosopherBoi wrote:
My problem with all of this is that she was singled out, if they won't accept her they shouldn't accept any other special needs children but if they accept her they should accept all special needs children. If these troops are for special needs then that is what their function is for to accommodate special needs children to turn a child away because of who they are when they are doing nothing wrong shows that they need to work with these troops and get volunteers with experience leading these troops.


Autism was a different disability than the other children had. The parent running the group probably knew how to deal with physical challenges, but had no idea how to deal with mental ones. Unfortunate, but it's reality. Volunteers, I'm afraid, are in short supply. The odds of getting someone into leadership who is comfortable with autism are pretty darn small. Many, many scout troops sit inactive for lack of leadership. When you try to enroll your child in scouts, the first thing you hear is: "we'd love to reactivate the troop at your child's school! Could you please lead it?" So, while your ideas are worthy, they are not realistic.


It still does not change the fact they should have treated her like a human not like some monster. I am so fed-up with people treating autistic people like we are broken or anything like that we are human and we deserve the exact same respect, compassion, understanding and tolerance.



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25 Nov 2008, 5:19 pm

philosopherBoi wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
philosopherBoi wrote:
My problem with all of this is that she was singled out, if they won't accept her they shouldn't accept any other special needs children but if they accept her they should accept all special needs children. If these troops are for special needs then that is what their function is for to accommodate special needs children to turn a child away because of who they are when they are doing nothing wrong shows that they need to work with these troops and get volunteers with experience leading these troops.


Autism was a different disability than the other children had. The parent running the group probably knew how to deal with physical challenges, but had no idea how to deal with mental ones. Unfortunate, but it's reality. Volunteers, I'm afraid, are in short supply. The odds of getting someone into leadership who is comfortable with autism are pretty darn small. Many, many scout troops sit inactive for lack of leadership. When you try to enroll your child in scouts, the first thing you hear is: "we'd love to reactivate the troop at your child's school! Could you please lead it?" So, while your ideas are worthy, they are not realistic.


It still does not change the fact they should have treated her like a human not like some monster. I am so fed-up with people treating autistic people like we are broken or anything like that we are human and we deserve the exact same respect, compassion, understanding and tolerance.


I totally agree with you. It was mishandled. If I was the parent-volunteer I would have indicated that I considered MYSELF at fault, for not having the experience. Same result, I guess, but the blame never on the child.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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25 Nov 2008, 5:42 pm

I have lots of girl scout stories. I was in the girlscouts and bluebirds (campfire). I had a better time as a campfire girl. By the time I was in girlscouts we moved next door to jerks who were not supportive of me and tried to ruin my girlscout experience. It wasn't the troop leader's fault entirely. Unfortunately, troop leaders are under the pressure of parents of the kids who are in their group and if one decides they want to exclude you for whatever reason, they try to get everyone else to blackball you too, in some cases. It's really unfair.
Fortunately, for me, I had a really good friend who, also, was a girl scout, in a different troop. I quit the mean troop with the obnoxious neighbor and joined the troop with the friend and it was fabulous! Could not have had a better time!
Anyway, this shows how much work is needed educating the public and how unaccepting people can be.



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25 Nov 2008, 5:45 pm

ant we have an alternitive..Maybwe the Uber epic elite noob elimination squad



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25 Nov 2008, 5:47 pm

I got one question autism or aspergers?

Anyway I feel sorry for that kid they should know better then again ignorance comes in many forms.

I never really had my moments then again, they never picked me for the basket ball team cos of my height... :(


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