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ephemerella
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09 Dec 2008, 11:37 am

Not only is this typical NT behavior, but it is NT behavior that is (as I pointed out in a previous post) very political in nature. Fighting over your image and how you define others and how others define you, is the core and bread-and-butter behavior of NTs who are political animals. It is what underlies a lot of the verbal aggression and bullying (personal attacks and belittling) that goes on in workplaces and social groups.

[url=http://www.mail.com/Article.aspx?articlepath=APNews\financialnewsigtech\20081209\Blagojevich-Corruption-Probe.xml&cat=money&subcat=financialnewsigtech&pageid=1]Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe[/url]
December 9, 2008 11:03:59 AM EST
By MIKE ROBINSON

"Federal authorities arrested Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich Tuesday on charges that he brazenly conspired to sell or trade the U.S. Senate seat left vacant by President-elect Barack Obama to the highest bidder.

"Blagojevich also was charged with illegally threatening to withhold state assistance to Tribune Co., the owner of the Chicago Tribune, in the sale of Wrigley Field, according to a federal criminal complaint. In return for state assistance, Blagojevich allegedly wanted members of the paper's editorial board who had been critical of him fired. ..."

I think the OP asked a great question, and should not be bashed for being disrespectful to NTs.



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09 Dec 2008, 1:38 pm

Exactly. When you have an image that is perfect, and you see yourself in a way that everyone sees you, you are going to use any defensive tactic to keep that image up, and when it is revealed that you can't keep it up, people expose thier insecure and dark ways, only to show that they are no better than the person they feel is superior to them.


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09 Dec 2008, 2:07 pm

LadyMacbeth wrote:
Ppl with ASDs can do this too. It's not dependant on neurological status; only personality.


I agree with this.



ephemerella
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09 Dec 2008, 5:31 pm

Tortuga wrote:
LadyMacbeth wrote:
Ppl with ASDs can do this too. It's not dependant on neurological status; only personality.


I agree with this.


But the feeling of queasiness, insecurity and discomfort that some people feel when AS people dissect and micro-analyze what they call NT social behavior, is an NT thing. AS people (who are really AS) don't seem to have the kind of discomfort putting social behavior under a microscope that NTs have. In fact, they do it all the time.

I tend to think that the people who spaz out when these "let's dissect this NT social behavior" thread pop up, aren't really AS.



2ukenkerl
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09 Dec 2008, 6:12 pm

They simply don'twant to work to become better, and feel that bringing others down will make them look better. Of course, they want to AVOID having anyone do that to THEM, EVEN if it is defensive against THEIR attacks.



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09 Dec 2008, 6:16 pm

timeisdead wrote:
ValMikeSmith wrote:
Because they perceive themselves as better than you,
and they are surely offended and defensive when they are outwitted
and challenged by those they already believe they rule over.

What really irks me is that they can dish it out but can't take it. For people with massive superiority complexes, they really are such whiny little crybabies aren't they?

Trust me on this one: There are more than a few Aspers who fit that description, even among WP members!

It's twoo! It's twoo! :wink:


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ephemerella
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09 Dec 2008, 6:21 pm

Fnord wrote:
timeisdead wrote:
ValMikeSmith wrote:
Because they perceive themselves as better than you,
and they are surely offended and defensive when they are outwitted
and challenged by those they already believe they rule over.

What really irks me is that they can dish it out but can't take it. For people with massive superiority complexes, they really are such whiny little crybabies aren't they?

Trust me on this one: There are more than a few Aspers who fit that description, even among WP members!

It's twoo! It's twoo! :wink:


Are you here to bash and ridicule AS people?

Isn't there a board for non-AS losers to go unload their animus and resentment?

It baffles me why there are non-AS people here lurking and posting, resenting the AS people and trying to pick on them. Is it because this is the forum where you won't get banned as anti-social trolls?



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09 Dec 2008, 6:25 pm

ephemerella wrote:
Fnord wrote:
timeisdead wrote:
ValMikeSmith wrote:
Because they perceive themselves as better than you,
and they are surely offended and defensive when they are outwitted
and challenged by those they already believe they rule over.

What really irks me is that they can dish it out but can't take it. For people with massive superiority complexes, they really are such whiny little crybabies aren't they?

Trust me on this one: There are more than a few Aspers who fit that description, even among WP members!

It's twoo! It's twoo! :wink:

ephemerella wrote:
Are you here to bash and ridicule AS people?

Of course not! This issue of "Dish it out but can't take it" is not the exclusive province of NTs.

ephemerella wrote:
Isn't there a board for non-AS losers to go unload their animus and resentment?

I have no idea.

ephemerella wrote:
It baffles me why there are non-AS people here lurking and posting, resenting the AS people and trying to pick on them. Is it because this is the forum where you won't get banned as anti-social trolls?

Anti-Social trolls get banned from WP, we're just not allowed to discuss them on WP.

I think your avatar is cute!


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ephemerella
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09 Dec 2008, 6:30 pm

Fnord wrote:
I think your avatar is cute!


Don't be so nice! :)

Sorry, I'm very militantly anti-bullying. Whenever the speech starts to turn too personal or demonizing in tone, I get acutely uncomfortable.

It's my issue. :cry:



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09 Dec 2008, 6:34 pm

ephemerella wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I think your avatar is cute!

Don't be so nice! :)

Sorry, I'm very militantly anti-bullying. Whenever the speech starts to turn too personal or demonizing in tone, I get acutely uncomfortable.

It's my issue. :cry:

No worries ... and please don't cry! :(

I'm trying to watch my attitude a little more, so that I don't post something that could even be interpreted as bullying. You don't know how many times I've looked to see if this thread was in "The Haven," just so that I don't violate its principles again.


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09 Dec 2008, 6:52 pm

ephemerella wrote:
Sorry, I'm very militantly anti-bullying. Whenever the speech starts to turn too personal or demonizing in tone, I get acutely uncomfortable.

ephemerella, can you please explain to me how you found this statement:
Fnord wrote:
Trust me on this one: There are more than a few Aspers who fit that description, even among WP members!

It's twoo! It's twoo! :wink:


to be bullying?

I'm curious because I don't get that idea at all and want to understand where you're coming from.



ephemerella
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09 Dec 2008, 7:15 pm

mitharatowen wrote:
ephemerella wrote:
Sorry, I'm very militantly anti-bullying. Whenever the speech starts to turn too personal or demonizing in tone, I get acutely uncomfortable.

ephemerella, can you please explain to me how you found this statement:
Fnord wrote:
Trust me on this one: There are more than a few Aspers who fit that description, even among WP members!

It's twoo! It's twoo! :wink:


to be bullying?

I'm curious because I don't get that idea at all and want to understand where you're coming from.


Hi, sure. It wasn't so much Fnord, but the "chain of memes" that was building that seemed to begin to sound demonizing when taken out of context. I.e.:

Fnord wrote:
timeisdead wrote:
ValMikeSmith wrote:
Because they perceive themselves as better than you,
and they are surely offended and defensive when they are outwitted
and challenged by those they already believe they rule over.

What really irks me is that they can dish it out but can't take it. For people with massive superiority complexes, they really are such whiny little crybabies aren't they?

Trust me on this one: There are more than a few Aspers who fit that description, even among WP members!

It's twoo! It's twoo! :wink:


"offended and defensive when they are outwitted..." "massive superiority complexes... little crybabies"

I think that things when put together from certain contexts start sounding differently than what they were intended, and can wander off course into being bigoted or verbally abusive.

What is making me feel kind of uncomfortable is how these threads where people are trying to analyze and dissect NT social behaviors are being either belittled by NTs on the site or moved off course. AS people aren't trying to bash NTs when they do microscopic social behavior analysis. It's an important part of the social cognitive development that is not something that NTs have to do. The NTs on the board who are uncomfortable with it, who don't understand it and who think it's a kind of immature, prejudiced or obsessive thread, are interfering with the kind of processing that some AS people need to engage in here.

NTs hate doing microscopic dissection of social behavior like AS people have to do. Anytime we want to spend some time talking to a friend or relative, why did that person look at me that way, why did they say that, NTs are generally uncomfortable going one or two sentences past an answer. Because they get insecure and feel self-conscious being analytical about socially instinctive behavior. Some people will become outright uncomfortable and upset by it, wanting to know why we're dwelling or fixated on the issue. They don't understand that the clear set of relationships has to be examined and built up explicitly, to understand that social behavior and situation.

I think that when AS people start threads like this, asking about some NT social trait or behavior, it's wrong for NTs at the site to come and dump on it. Or to start picking at the AS person who posted it, and how ignorant or clueless or baseless the question is. Because I think that is interfering with what a lot of people get from the site, judging from how many of these social-behavior-dissection questions get posted.

Also, I think that when the language starts to turn too demonizing, or prejudiced, that it creates a hostile environment to the AS people, who are easily put off or confused by that kind of thing.

In this specific case, the point of this thread is to understand the strategic and behavioral purposes -- to make sense of the behavior in question. To start making it out to be an issue of massive superiority complexes and crybabies interferes with the kind of algorithmic and systematic explanations that the AS person needs when they look for explanations for certain behaviors. We literally need to process the steps : A leads to B, B needs C and C causes D. Answers like "they're as*holes and crybabies" aren't really mappable onto a rational explanation.



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09 Dec 2008, 7:32 pm

That makes sense, thank you. Those comments were originally directed towards NTs which I don't think is right either.

If the purpose of this thread is to dissect NT behavior, then I approve. It doesn't look that way from here due to the hurling of insults that immediately insued. I would like to participate in a thread designed to dissect behavior, it would help me learn why people act the way they do (which I usually don't get) but too many people take the opportunity to put others down which makes me shy away from participating in said thread.

I would tend to disagree with your assessment of this particular thread, though, because the OP was one of the first to start throwing insults at NT's. In fact, the OP is who Fnord quoted in his post that you took offense to. In my opinion we do need more of such threads as you mention where we dissect behavior in a non-offensive manner.



ephemerella
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09 Dec 2008, 7:39 pm

Fnord wrote:
ephemerella wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I think your avatar is cute!

Don't be so nice! :)

Sorry, I'm very militantly anti-bullying. Whenever the speech starts to turn too personal or demonizing in tone, I get acutely uncomfortable.

It's my issue. :cry:

No worries ... and please don't cry! :(

I'm trying to watch my attitude a little more, so that I don't post something that could even be interpreted as bullying. You don't know how many times I've looked to see if this thread was in "The Haven," just so that I don't violate its principles again.


I'm trying to not be so hypervigilant. Needless to say, I misinterpret a lot of things. My social development is very uneven.



ephemerella
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09 Dec 2008, 7:41 pm

mitharatowen wrote:
That makes sense, thank you. Those comments were originally directed towards NTs which I don't think is right either.

If the purpose of this thread is to dissect NT behavior, then I approve. It doesn't look that way from here due to the hurling of insults that immediately insued. I would like to participate in a thread designed to dissect behavior, it would help me learn why people act the way they do (which I usually don't get) but too many people take the opportunity to put others down which makes me shy away from participating in said thread.

I would tend to disagree with your assessment of this particular thread, though, because the OP was one of the first to start throwing insults at NT's. In fact, the OP is who Fnord quoted in his post that you took offense to. In my opinion we do need more of such threads as you mention where we dissect behavior in a non-offensive manner.


Yes, I think you are more accurate in reading the thread. I tend to interpret things through my own little window and then misinterpret people. I viewed the thread through what I thought it should be, perhaps.

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm trying to be a little more insightful in verbal exchanges.



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09 Dec 2008, 7:45 pm

Well then maybe we should just make the thread what it should be :wink:
I didn't read the whole thing, what was your take on why some people behave the way the OP mentions?