Words Mean Things, Unfortunately; MULTIPLE things

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outlander
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29 Dec 2008, 11:11 am

Accurate communication can be a problem and even more so between NT's and Aspies.

I think I finally have had a revelation about the word "empathy"
I have read many words by researchers in the area of aspergers and autism and they very often refer to how aspies lack empathy, and I find that at odds with what I experience and what I see in so many posts on aspie websites. Then suddenly yesterday It dawned on me that the psych-types are using the word differently from the common usage. They seem to have a very technical meaning of the word.

As I see it:
The psych types seem to mean by "empathy", the ability to perceive through verbal and largely non verbal interaction what is going on in the other persons head.
Versus:
The common usage most frequently means to care about the other person's situation and to identify with their emotional situation. Or as in Bill Clinton's famous line "I feel your pain".

When I looked it up in my Webster's dictionary it appears the etymology of the word is en (in) pathos (feeling). The etymology stresses feeling but the definition given was more along the lines the psych-types use.

I assert, that from what I see and experience, it is inaccurate to say the aspies, (and presumably all autistics), lack empathy, It appears to me that what really happens is that, especially between NT's and Aspies, the communication differences simply don't allow the empathy to easily develop in an accurate way. Frankly, I am inclined to think of NT's as often being unfeeling because they don't get it right with respect to what I am feeling or getting at. They seem a bit "dense" in that respect. When I turn that around, I can see how they might perceive me as unfeeling and "dense". By comparison, I experience a sense of relief when communicating via posts here because it seems that the aspies who post here are much more able to understand what I feel and think. That makes sense because other aspies would tend to communicate in similar ways to my own. But at the same time, I see some posts by aspies who are deeper into the autism spectrum, or who have other problems (co-morbidities) and I wish I could communicate with them better.

My wife is not unobservant of my characteristics. As I discussed this with her she commented about how readily I feel other people's experiences. But she perceived this as me taking on their experiences and discomforts or joys and thereby making it "all about me" in a selfish sense. I found her characterization offensive because I just don't see "empathizing" with someone else's situation in this way as selfish. In my view it is actually being very caring. We talked further and at least now have some understanding of each other's perception.

Ok, I have said enough, but I would be interested to know if this matches the perceptions of others here.


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pakled
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29 Dec 2008, 1:42 pm

making things 'about yourself' is moer common if you don't understand others.

Case in point - I have 'misplaced empathy'; I'm always worried about people being blocked by my shopping cart, getting in someone's way, having someone have to say 'excuse me', etc.

Actually knowing what other people really think comes hard sometimes.



NocturnalQuilter
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29 Dec 2008, 1:48 pm

pakled wrote:
Case in point - I have 'misplaced empathy'; I'm always worried about people being blocked by my shopping cart, getting in someone's way, having someone have to say 'excuse me', etc.


Sorry to abscond with the thread but I had to comment: I found the above statement rather poignant. I am always concerned about where my shopping cart is when I'm in a store. I'm always hugging the side of the aisle and peeking over my shoulder to make sure I'm not blocking anyone. I sometimes go so far as to leave the cart in a stationary place and run to the various aisles to pick up what I need, then run back to the cart to empty my hands for another trip.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.....



0_equals_true
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29 Dec 2008, 2:03 pm

/\
Yes it is interesting I am capable of not acknowledging people, but I make a special effort in that sort of situation (though I rarely take a trolley even if my basket weighs a ton by the end of it, and try get out of there like greased lightning)



BlackjackGabbiani
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04 Jan 2009, 10:45 pm

outlander wrote:
As I see it:
The psych types seem to mean by "empathy", the ability to perceive through verbal and largely non verbal interaction what is going on in the other persons head.
Versus:
The common usage most frequently means to care about the other person's situation and to identify with their emotional situation. Or as in Bill Clinton's famous line "I feel your pain".


Except that the first one isn't empathy at all, it's perception. Which is entirely different, because it only says that you'll *notice*, not that you'll feel anything from that notice.



outlander
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05 Jan 2009, 11:41 am

BlackjackGabbiani wrote:
outlander wrote:
As I see it:
The psych types seem to mean by "empathy", the ability to perceive through verbal and largely non verbal interaction what is going on in the other persons head.
Versus:
The common usage most frequently means to care about the other person's situation and to identify with their emotional situation. Or as in Bill Clinton's famous line "I feel your pain".


Except that the first one isn't empathy at all, it's perception. Which is entirely different, because it only says that you'll *notice*, not that you'll feel anything from that notice.
Exactly :!:
Sociologists will tell you that one of the defining characteristics of a "group" is that they develop their own "jargon" Everyone in the group understands the meaning of the words as used within that group, even though the same words may mean someting different to those outside the group. This really messes up communication between the "ingroup" members and those who are out of the group. The "psych types" as I call them, definitely qualify as a group. What they have to say about aspies can be misleading to others because of the way they use their jargon. I have found many who post here who are very caring and "empathic" in that sense because they know the isolation and frustration that many of us feel in the NT world.


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All the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer


Ryn
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05 Jan 2009, 12:05 pm

I can see what you're saying. Even with your definition, however, I have to intellectualize empathy. I don't understand people by instinct, but just by analyzing behavior and thinking about it in comparison to past experience. Obviously this method fails a lot, but apparently it's enough to get by.

The second type of empathy, the "I feel your pain", I don't experience like most people. To gain empathy with me I have to think how I would feel in the situation. It's not necessarily "cold and intellectual" just because I had to get to it that way, because I'm very sympathetic, but I don't spontaneously garner emotion like that.

pakled wrote:
making things 'about yourself' is moer common if you don't understand others.

Case in point - I have 'misplaced empathy'; I'm always worried about people being blocked by my shopping cart, getting in someone's way, having someone have to say 'excuse me', etc.

Actually knowing what other people really think comes hard sometimes.


Misplaced empathy is an apt way to describe it. I'm terrified of inconveniencing anyone, so I'm constantly apologizing and trying to get out of everyone's way. I'm the kind of person who says "I'm sorry" if someone bumps into me by accident or something, because I'm not sure how to respond.


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