Raised by Aspergers parent

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*bump*

I'm bumping this up where my husband can find it, because I'd like him to see some other peoples' experiences.

Because I'm reading a lot about people who were profoundly hurt by having parents like my grandpa, who were careful all the time.

And not a lot about people who were hurt by having parents like my dad, who was warm and open and just happened to be outspoken, annoying, and embarrassing.

Because I HATE being careful all the time, and staying on my kids to be careful all the time. It's robbing my joy in my family-- I don't want to be here any more. If it were just me, well, I don't know-- but the kids don't want to be around any more either. It's hurting them too.

I am never going to be a shiny perfect mother. Should not have had kids. But it's too late for that now-- they're here, and now it's about figuring out what kind of broken mother is going to do the smallest and most acceptable amount of damage while leaving the largest amount of good feelings and happy memories to balance that out.

BuyerBeware,

You don't have to be perfect and you don't have to be careful all the time. You just don't.

I hope you are OK.

BuyerBeware - you are not broken. You aren't. And if you're reading this thinking, "you don't know me, I'm effed up like this, this, this..." , just know that everyone could run through all of their shortcomings/issues, if they were introspective enough to do it. And that gets to the crutch of my point - you ARE introspective, and kind, and loving, and smart, and protective. You are not broken; you are human. You are enough, just the way you are. Maybe you just need to shrug off someone else's expectations, and just continue to be the kind of you that you can live with. I don't know, but I wanted to send you ((hugs)) and let you know that from what little I know about you, I think you're awesome and I respect you immensely!

jojo--

Your son does not have to grow up to be just like your father. We're not all alike; it seems as if those of us who turn out to be petty and critical are those of us who first learn to treat ourselves that way.

My grandfather was that way. His wife and his daughters could do almost no right. It was all about appearances; all about what people would think. Why?? Because the first person he treated that way was himself. He grew up with an abusive mother, and a bunch of unkind siblings, under the watchful eye of the American eugenics movement back in the early 20th century. By the time I was growing up, he took a lot of tranquilizers and was mostly silent, but I still caught a pretty good dose of "Fit in or you will be of no value."

It actually took me years, and a lot of reading literature and analyzing my grandmother's comments, to realize that he had Asperger's. Asperger's wasn't the cause of his behavior. The iron fist that he beat himself with, daily, to keep his "terrible secret" under wraps was the cause of his behavior. He died a miserable man; although people speak well of him, I don't think anyone is really sorry he's gone.

I knew my dad had it as soon as I read about it. He made social mistakes. He talked too much, and laughed too loud, and showed his feelings too freely. hHe was smart, but people always said he was stupid. Anyone could put anything over on him. Most of the family didn't like to be seen in public with him because he could be very childlike in showing his enthusiasm. Loudly, at great length. He was relentlessly practical-- it didn't matter that we lived in the boonies, with a view that God would have killed for; windows let heat out and cold in, so we had small windows. When I needed glasses, it didn't matter that I had a flat chest, and braces, and it was going to be just one more thing for people to make fun of me over: I could not see the chalkboard, therefore I got glasses. End of line.

HE HAD NO CLUE THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING WRONG WITH HIM. When people said nasty things about him, he rolled a joint and laughed like a ret*d epileptic hyena and said, "Well, I'm me. I ain't hurtin' nobody. f**k 'em if they can't take a joke." And he was tolerant, and open, and supportive, and patient, and all the things people keep saying people with autism aren't. He died with getting his wife home from the nursing home being the only thing standing between him and being a happy man, and everyone who knew him would gladly give up a few appendages if it meant having him back.

Me?? I have both sides. I grew up with Grandma chasing me around wailing, "Don't do that! That's what ret*d kids do!! Do you want people to think you're ret*d??" I also had "benefit" of "social skills training" as an adult (Hint: The "training" involved taking a lot of powerful drugs and sitting in a room practicing saying "I'm fine, thanks. And you??" Regardless of the fact that I was suicidal and needed help dealing with some really big stuff. And the people who did it have been divested of their licenses amid a disability fraud scandal.) There's half of me that hates myself with a purple passion, and spends every waking moment scanning every action for any sign of autism before it is permitted. That same side of me can be pretty unkind to my kids, if I let it get that far.

I also grew up with my father. If I let myself, I can be that kind of autistic too. My husband is always telling me to "Shhhhh!" when we're in public. My mother-in-law talks to that person in a preachy school-teacher voice. People roll their eyes at that person. That person laughs a lot more, and scolds a lot less, and has kids that want to talk to her (even if the adolescent yells, "You are SO WIERD!! !" a lot when her friends are over-- hey, at least she BRINGS HER FRIENDS OVER!! !).

In short, don't let your son grow up hating himself for the way he is. Don't criticize him constantly, or let anyone stand over him nagging him to "not be autistic." Teach him not to let his anxiety get the better of him all the time (what happened to your dad-- he heard a list of symptoms and got scared; it had everything to do with anxiety and nothing to do with attention). If he never develops that poisonous critic, he might be odd, but he won't be, you know, LIKE THAT.

I don't see too many people on here complaining that their parents told too many dirty jokes, or talked liberal politics with their childhood best friend's ultraconservative parents, or made an ass of themselves at Six Flags that one summer. I don't see too many people saying they were scarred for life by their father's tendency to bang his head on the table when he was really upset, or to raise his voice too quickly and apologize just as quickly, or to think that plaid flannels and striped t-shirts looked "dapper" with rainbow suspenders, bright-red Converse high-tops, and a pillowtick hat (yes, my father really did show up at my high school graduation in exactly that get-up; I have a wedding photo of him walking me down the aisle in jeans and a plaid shirt, with a tatty gray sweater covering up stars-and-stripes suspenders). I don't see too many people saying they were seriously damaged by their mother's obsession with Civil War battlefields, canning local produce, pioneer homesteading, and survival gardening either.

I see A LOT of people saying that they were permanently screwed by a parent who had The Critic going full-bore on everyone all the time...

...and people generally don't treat other people that way unless the first thing they do when they get out of bed in the morning is turn that treatment on themselves.

BuyerBeware - I think you're mostly right...

I've seen a couple of kids lives destroyed because of over-liberal parenting which did not help kids set appropriate boundaries for themselves or instil a sense of self-discipline. But...in general, yes the embarrassing mom or dad is but a temporary agony and frankly kids will be embarrassed by you even if you weren't embarrassing.

The shouting and swearing and head banging is frightening. Meltdowns are distressing.

But yes, the full bore critic is what absolutely eats away at children and spouses. Disinterest and disengagement isn't too helpful either.

Hey.

Just joined, because I find there's nowhere to talk and get support for kids who have autistic/Aspergers parents. My dad is a high functioning autistic, (more AS than aspie) but also is an aggressive, verbally abusive, acoholic man who has no self control and a very short temper. Today is just another day where he found something (neither my mother or I know what it was) that set him off and went on a long, loud, angry rant about just about anything he could think of. The main subject was on veterinarian experiences, because I made a comment to my mom about how I think our elderly cat should get a senior checkup at the vet. Never once was I able to finish a sentence, or explain to him that I wasn't trying to bring him into the conversation about the cat, simply that I was just making a comment. It then progressed to him bringing up several things I had apparently done wrong today, like not going to school (I had abdominal surgery less than a week ago and am not able to do much other than walk around the house) or picking up my stuff when I was done using it (Should I mention my dad is a bit of a hoarder? There's boxes upon boxes of stuff everywhere). He recently has made it clear that I am not allowed to have opinions that differ from his, simply because I'm his daughter and therefore I need to do everything he tells me to. This also means he is allowed to interrupt me, dismiss any of my thoughts, and patronize me for anything I do. The patronizing often results in screaming, and violent outbursts. There is very little I or my mom can do to de-escalate my dad once he is on a fit.
Because I'm not able to move out on my own and am still in school, I feel trapped with someone that I cannot live with. Sometimes he tries his best, but his best is ignoring me and occasionally feeling guilty and buying things I don't need. I appreciate when he does have moments of "normalcy", but those are becoming less and less rare. Are there ways to cope with any of this while I still need to stay where I am? Any "tricks" that might help keep things rage-free without having to completely alter what little bit of "me" I have? I feel like I sound really selfish but am at a breaking point...

Hello Kringe

I can relate. I had a similar experience with my mother as I was growing up. I was never sure what would set her off into a rage. I now wonder if that is not so much down to autism, but may have more to do with borderline personality disorder. Either way it was very difficult to live with someone who would fly off the handle for seemingly no reason what-so-ever. One day something would be okay to do, nor not do, then the next it would be the end of the world for her. I had to walk on eggshells all of the time and I was very stressed, I still am.

I have learned that there are subjects I should never discuss with my Dad because he can't get his head round the idea that other people have different opinions to him. Actually my Mum finds it difficult to. I just can't reason with either of them. I keep them at arms length now. I check in with them every so often to make sure they are ok, but for the sake of my own sanity I live an hour's drive away from them and keep myself to myself.

All I can say is you have to grit your teeth and bear it until you are old enough to move out. I managed to move out when I was 21, some people say that is a young age to leave home, but I couldn't afford to until I was that age.

It helps to have friends you can confide in so that you don't have to carry the load all by yourself. You can pm me any time you want.

Hi Kringe,

I am sorry that you are going through this. It sounds really tough to bear. I hope you can carve out an independent situation soon and find some room to be yourself.

It made me really sad to see your words "I feel like I sound really selfish" -- you don't! Not at all!

That you would feel this way is a sign that you have internalized responsibility for your dad in an unhealthy way and this is something you need to free yourself from.

I wish I could offer some good advice about how to mitigate things while you are still living in that situation, but it sounds like he is unpredictable and has no sense of boundaries, so I can't think of any good advice.

But I hope you can take some strength and comfort from knowing that people who know your story see what you are going through and are wishing you well and hoping you find the freedom and respect you deserve soon.

Stay strong! One day all this will be behind you.

Absolutely: Autism is not an excuse to be acting the way your dad's acting, Kringe.

I'm sorry you have to "kringe" when you think of how your dad treats you.

Your dad has the cognitive awareness to be able to benefit from changing his behavior. This stubbornness is just stubbornness, found in people whether ASD, NT, or whatever.

In that instance, I can tell you what I THINK is happening (he feels threatened by the idea of hauling the cat to the vet because past experiences may re-materialize). Knowing that might ease things a little bit, but it doesn't help much, and it doesn't make what he's doing OK AT ALL.

I'm really sorry he's being an autocratic dick. That HURTS, and it's NOT YOUR FAULT.

Kringe - if you have any other family members nearby, you can try that, though they might be reluctant to get involved. Similarly, if you have a same-sex friend with a cool mom.

Other than that, what you need is a haven -- but keep in mind that there are predatory adults who will see you as vulnerable because unchaperoned and trying to avoid going home. How long is it before you figure you can move out?

Family flawed topic
Dear Kringe, et al:
Both my parents have been deceased for years--and they often behaved in ways that reflected their own shortcomings and their family's' cultures. In hindsight, I see their mistakes and how these affected me. Mom was an overdramatic, overbearing NT, Dad was an undiagnosed and bewildered AS.

It is easier for me to be philosophical and to rework the past into something coherent and understandable in order to learn from it, for this is the purpose of any historical analysis. Everyone is different, and needs to find solutions that fit them and their circumstances. Talking about problems to a trusting person is the first step, one I was not able to do. So I left home, a second step that works for some, and went from the pan to the fire. There were steps forward and back, as the road is not smooth and linear. It is really convoluted. This may take years before coming to a place of being aware that things can work out. I am almost a senior and since my dx ten years ago the path became understandably clearer, though I hope your journey does not take as long.

For example, I am looking forward to the movie "Unbroken" based on the superb literary work by L. Hillenbrand (also the author of "Seabiscuit"). The hero/main character of this excellent non-fiction book/movie is not AS but the struggles he faced all his life in childhood, WW2 and in later life can give hope to anyone experiencing various dilemmas. Like many here on WP, I like to learn from many different sources and people. This thread contains excellent ideas for understanding and coping with family challenges.

If you can't find a flesh-and-blood hominid to talk to, there's always us. You're welcome here.

We clean up after our rogue tribesmembers, or try to anyway.

We might see things through your dad's eyes...

...but a lot of us can see through your eyes too, having spent a lifetime getting yelled at for being ourselves.

Whatever you do, PLEASE DON'T INTERNALIZE THE CRITICISM. Please know that it comes from a deep place of fear, anger, and insecurity in your father (been there, done that, still in therapy), and absolutely is not the truth, is not something you should take on board and build your life around.

Hey all this is my first post here glad to be aboard. My father was a classic and pretty hardcore ASP with all the trimmings. Now all these years later, and understanding finally that he did not do all that crazy and often abusive stuff to me out of malice, i still struggle to forgive him. In some ways it was easier for me to just hate him as a cold, self-involved, sometimes explosively violent SOB. Now i know i must readjust my considerations to include his non-optional mental organization. Its a real project. Wonder if anyone can relate.

Asperger's is so confusing to me because the symptoms can be so varied, yet there is a commonality.

Most people who meet my dad just think he's weird, awkward, nerdy, or the rudest, biggest, jerk they ever met. Others, just feel disturbed around him and a little scared of him. I grew up in this and I think all of it, all at once. But, I want to learn more. I want to understand more. Maybe my dad is just a diabolical ass that refuses to understand how his behavior impacts those around him. Maybe he can't and will never understand because his brain can't think that way, due to Aspergers. Regardless, I experienced the trauma. I experienced the reality of it.

Here's my question: Are Aspergers adults responsible for their behavior? Or are they absolved? Because they can't control their frustration, is it OK for them to be mean and angry? Or are there Aspie's who are so intelligent that they "play" that and they really are just flat out mean people? I personally, believe that whether a person is ret*d (as per medical diagnosis, still legit) or not, meanness is not acceptable. People can have disabilities and not be mean. People with disabilities are very capable of being mean, hateful, and horrid on purpose.

My father is hateful, angry, bitter, and mean to the bone, so much so that my mother understands that no one can come around anymore and he can't go out in public anymore (due to his rude, anger insighting comments deliberately directed at Hispanics and others ~ does he really think that eventually someone won't give a crap that he's autistic and just punch him in the face?).

She tells me that he wants to be able to love people but doesn't know how, so it's easier for him to be hateful. He just can't comprehend things, process information, or get past stuff. I can't be around it. I can't stand it. And I won't subject my children to it. The Aspergers has reinforced itself with hate; quite convenient to establish isolation. Uggh!

If anyone has a book written by a child of an Aspergers parent that doesn't glamorize it or make it seem embraced by political correctness, but rather opens up a discussion about how very abusive, difficult, challenging it really is for kids, I would appreciate a referral to it. Perhaps, a You Tube video link, or article. I am doing as much research on this as I can to come to conclusions on this very confusing issue.

So far I have concluded that I, personally, have an Aspie father that is also chooses to be mean. Maybe I am in denial about the "choice" part of it, but that's where I am at right now.

Of course they are responsible. if I am responsible for mine, they are too. If someone isn't responsible, then they need to be in a group home or have a carer with them 24/7 and lose their adult rights because they wouldn't be capable or they need to be in a hospital.




No it's not. It's okay to be angry of course but it's not okay for them to treat others bad and be abusive because of it. It's how we express it and handle it is when it becomes right or wrong.



Anyone can be mean.



Of course. I have been bullied by other aspies and I knew a kid with AS who I call Frankie and he was very mean and abusive and manipulative and a pathological liar. There have been other kids with disabilities who were mean to me when I was a child and they were just normal kids. My husband was picked on by kids who had intellectual disabilities when he was in special ed, back then they stuck all kids with disabilities in one room and isolated them from the normal kids.



He could be a mean guy because he hates himself and he has given up so he feels better if he is just mean.



I don't think all aspie parents are mean and abusive and there are plenty of mean NT parents out there too and I can agree that autism can contribute to the abuse (look around in the other threads here by parents who talk about how abusive their kids get but yet if they acted that way to their child, it would be child abuse so how is it any different doing it to a parent so abuse is abuse) and I think any mental illness can contribute to it too and anxiety and someone can be normal and not have any mental illness or any neurological disorders and still be mean and abusive to their kids. But not everyone with a mental illness or with a neurological disorder are mean and abusive to their kids.