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2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 7:11 am

neshamaruach wrote:
Padium wrote:
neshamaruach wrote:
millie wrote:
you know, and i say it with all due respect to those fantastic americans i have met here on WP......you guys as a race aren't very much liked around the world and it is precisley because of the kind of cultural narcissism garyww highlights here.

.....

i have even met americans who get austria and australia confused! (that's been better since the sydney olympics,) but i think it says something.


No way! We have such a top-notch educational system! And it's not like we go around bombing a little sovereign nation based on lies and absurd premises, or expect everyone in the world to speak English when we visit their little backwaters, or think our country is the greatest in the world without having ever visited another country.

I mean, sheesh.

You Aussies sure are misinformed. Yes sirree. Good thing I'm here to set you straight.

/end sarcasm


I would have never guessed that was sarcasm.


That's why I put the marker in. I realize that a lot of people have a hard time recognizing sarcasm, and I didn't want anyone to argue with me as though I were being serious.


Well, there ARE people that REALLY think that way. BTW for the record, I don't. I even said here earlier that the educational system STINKS. Frankly, it seems that most places have educational systems that aren't as good as they used to be. It certainly isn't only the US. I even once had an argument about the maintainability of Social Security, if it is run right, with my uncle. After a while, I realized something. As a percentage, he paid FAR less than I do! So we were BOTH right! Sometimes things change, and change the veracity of related circumstances.



Hershel_Numanox
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21 Jan 2009, 7:52 am

It doesn't really matter who gets in because the same people are in control regardless. Just look at the nineties when people got fed up with Bush seniors right wing politics they brought in Clinton to save the day. And now they have done exactly the same thing with Bush Jr and Obama. It really worries me that people see him as some kind of saviour or messia figure. Put your faith in yourself.

Remember the failure in the florida voting system when Bush LOST the election. A quick manipulation rectified the results. If you look at the company records of the Electronic voting system used you will find Bush's name as one of the owners. Don't believe me? Look it up for yourself. The American public and the rest of the world are being played with out even knowing it.



2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 8:01 am

Hershel_Numanox wrote:
It doesn't really matter who gets in because the same people are in control regardless. Just look at the nineties when people got fed up with Bush seniors right wing politics they brought in Clinton to save the day. And now they have done exactly the same thing with Bush Jr and Obama. It really worries me that people see him as some kind of saviour or messia figure. Put your faith in yourself.

Remember the failure in the florida voting system when Bush LOST the election. A quick manipulation rectified the results. If you look at the company records of the Electronic voting system used you will find Bush's name as one of the owners. Don't believe me? Look it up for yourself. The American public and the rest of the world are being played with out even knowing it.


And WHY does FLORIDA get blamed!?!?!? YEARS before, and YEARS after, at least MY districts in california had the SAME RIDICULOUSLY stupid ballot!! !! !! Either everyone is BRAINDEAD, or they mentioned florida ONLY because it was a swing state, and could get the kind of political attention. If they were REALLY serious, they would have scrapped and standardized the system DECADES ago! IBM NEVER made a computer punch card that was as stupid as the PRE-PUNCHED cards they had for voting.

Frankly, I am APPALED that they did what they did with florida for 4 reasons!

1. Recounting those ballots is IMPOSSIBLE! They are WAY too fragile, and I doubt they even really work once!
2. Things change that make recounting meaningless.
3. They changed the rules, so the SAME count would still change the outcome.
4. They did NOT recount all the affected ballots, only some in florida!



bluebandit
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21 Jan 2009, 9:21 am

Well, I'm happy. YEAH, President Obama!! !

Seriously, though I really wanted a democratic president. If only because we'll need a couple Supreme Court justices, and I believe they should be liberal. We need balance.

The icing on the cake is that he's black and he's very popular. His race is important because it's tangible evidence of how the country has changed and still changing. Even when things are better, people often need to see that it is.

I think his popularity is important, if it inspires people. Hope is important to America. We do are best work as country when we are working towards a common goal. If people feel excited and proud as Americans, well that's the first step. (Also doesn't hurt if people around world feel better about the U.S. as well.)



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21 Jan 2009, 10:46 am

Loborojo wrote:
Bye to the Bushes and welcome Obama. Hell, I am not even an American and got lumps in my throat, tears in my eyes, Obama spoke with Solomon wisdom!! !
He spoke to Hindus,Muslems, Christians and people without beliefs with the same respect. Well done, Obama!!


He invoked Duty and Sacrifice. Americans should be very afraid. Duty is a frequent neo-fascistic theme. Recall JFK "Ahhhhsk not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" An upright person rejects both sides of the proposition. He does not expect his countrymen to live or die for him, nor does he live for the sake of the country. He lives to pursue his own rational self interest.

After excoriating the Bush Administration for its fiscal irresponsibility, our New Fearless Leader proposes to throw money at all our problems. Some of it might even stick. This sound like the Same Old Keynsean nostrums that FDR and Lyndon Johnson proposed. Both prior attempts were failures.

I propose that we wait and see just what will become of Fearless Leader and his proposals, as he gets up and brushes the dust off.

P.S. I was very annoyed when the Designated Preacher recited -The Lord's Prayer-. Why? There are non-Christians paying taxes. Why do we have to be exposed to this verbal abuse.

ruveyn



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21 Jan 2009, 10:49 am

Padium wrote:
The great depression actually ended because Hitler brought the world back into war, and jump started everyone's economy, as it created jobs for everyone. Had the world have not gone back into war, the economy would have been worse longer... And maybe that wasn't the case in the states, but it certainly was for most of the world.


Exactly right! It was not the FDR New Deal that saved the U.S. economy but the Third Reich. Without a war brewing in Europe it would have taken twenty years (maybe more) for the economy to recover.

In 1937 the U.S. economy was in the same bad shape that it was in 1932.

ruveyn



2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 11:32 am

bluebandit wrote:
Well, I'm happy. YEAH, President Obama!! !

Seriously, though I really wanted a democratic president. If only because we'll need a couple Supreme Court justices, and I believe they should be liberal. We need balance.

The icing on the cake is that he's black and he's very popular. His race is important because it's tangible evidence of how the country has changed and still changing. Even when things are better, people often need to see that it is.

I think his popularity is important, if it inspires people. Hope is important to America. We do are best work as country when we are working towards a common goal. If people feel excited and proud as Americans, well that's the first step. (Also doesn't hurt if people around world feel better about the U.S. as well.)


He's NOT democratic, he is a democrat. That is a BIG difference! Most of the older justices are LIBERAL, so it is expected he will likely just MAINTAIN the balance that is ALREADY there! WOW, you admit you only wanted a BLACK there? Shouldn't a good person be PARAMOUNT!?



2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 11:40 am

ruveyn wrote:
Padium wrote:
The great depression actually ended because Hitler brought the world back into war, and jump started everyone's economy, as it created jobs for everyone. Had the world have not gone back into war, the economy would have been worse longer... And maybe that wasn't the case in the states, but it certainly was for most of the world.


Exactly right! It was not the FDR New Deal that saved the U.S. economy but the Third Reich. Without a war brewing in Europe it would have taken twenty years (maybe more) for the economy to recover.

In 1937 the U.S. economy was in the same bad shape that it was in 1932.

ruveyn


The "new deal" is part of our current PROBLEM! They didn't take enough, and treated it like their own special little fund for EVERYTHING! What I give to SS is supposed to be MY money ON LOAN to the US government and they are supposed to PAY IT BACK TO ME WITH INTEREST! So what do they do? They give the money to EVERYONE, make up some story about how OTHERS are supposed to pay for me, and THEN act to get out of paying me until I am perhaps over 90yo!! !! ! So the "Social Security Trust Fund"(actual name used by BILL CLINTON on HIS budgets), has become just a PONZI SCHEME!

The US treasury was SUPPOSED to be a business to develop the US and be self supporting. It has become a SPOILED BRAT that uses the money for it's own desires.



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21 Jan 2009, 12:14 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
And you call americans a race? Then I guess obama ISN'T an american, or am I black and don't know it?


American is a race, but in a different sense of the word. Back in the old old old days, you could generally tell exactly where a person was from by the colour of their skin/hair/eyes, but since then the world has become so interbred that it is impossible to tell with most whites, semi possible with blacks if you pay enough attention, possible with asians, possible with south americans for the most part, and I don't know if I am forgetting about any groups, but I probably am. Anyways, your nationality was your race, because the two were so strongly connected.



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21 Jan 2009, 12:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:
P.S. I was very annoyed when the Designated Preacher recited -The Lord's Prayer-. Why? There are non-Christians paying taxes. Why do we have to be exposed to this verbal abuse. ruveyn


I grant you that, as much as I objected to invoking prayers I also objected to him patting Bush on the back, though, when they parted. But that's called diplomacy, isn't it?


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21 Jan 2009, 12:36 pm

Throw in that the Christian religion was the original religion of the country formaly, and you get a thing that is inseperable from the history of the country and has become a ritual with no actual religious meaning, even if it has its roots in religion and is exactly word for word taken from a religion.



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21 Jan 2009, 12:42 pm

Padium wrote:
Throw in that the Christian religion was the original religion of the country formaly, and you get a thing that is inseperable from the history of the country and has become a ritual with no actual religious meaning, even if it has its roots in religion and is exactly word for word taken from a religion.


I beg your pardon? What about native American culture and religion before you whities even got there, or are you teaching history like in Sri Lanka, where they say to schoolkids that before the arrival of Buddhism to the island nothing existed (denying the Aboriginal Veda people's existence?


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bluebandit
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21 Jan 2009, 12:45 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
bluebandit wrote:
Well, I'm happy. YEAH, President Obama!! !

Seriously, though I really wanted a democratic president. If only because we'll need a couple Supreme Court justices, and I believe they should be liberal. We need balance.

The icing on the cake is that he's black and he's very popular. His race is important because it's tangible evidence of how the country has changed and still changing. Even when things are better, people often need to see that it is.

I think his popularity is important, if it inspires people. Hope is important to America. We do are best work as country when we are working towards a common goal. If people feel excited and proud as Americans, well that's the first step. (Also doesn't hurt if people around world feel better about the U.S. as well.)


He's NOT democratic, he is a democrat. That is a BIG difference! Most of the older justices are LIBERAL, so it is expected he will likely just MAINTAIN the balance that is ALREADY there! WOW, you admit you only wanted a BLACK there? Shouldn't a good person be PARAMOUNT!?


I meant democrat, at the time I just couldn't remember quite how to phrase it. Democrat President still seems to clash but whatever.

As for your second point, that's what I wanted, the balance maintained. I felt a Republican president would unbalance the Court. I didn't mean the court is currently unbalanced.

Lastly, where did I say I only wanted a black person? I did say I only wanted a democrat. I also said he's being black was "icing on the cake". Maybe I should explain that.

In the context of Obama as a human being, politician, man, or any other "hat" he may wear, his race is unimportant to me. I simply don't care, I see people not, race. However, it be absurd for me not to acknowledge, historically, the problem of race has been in this country. That a generation still alive today, experienced segregration and fought against it to acheive equality as we have it now. For many, yesterday, was an important part of the dream fulfilled. I'm not an idealist, and although I wish race didn't matter and behave that way, I know that in the world, it still does. I'm hoping in my lifetime it won't.



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21 Jan 2009, 12:55 pm

You whities? :lol:

My mom's side of the family happens to be of Native American descent. I think you need to be careful with mixing the past with the present Loborojo. Although I do agree that what happened on American soil was unfair. Not all americans are of white heritage these days. It's now mostly a melting pot mixed in with other generations of immigrants.

I also have to say that yes I'm glad Obama was elected but I don't think he can fix what has already happened. It's going to take more than one elected politician to fix things. The congress for instance. I think your argument is confused with racism. True there are people who are basing this only because he is black. I think it's a historical moment and I think we should be proud that he was elected on his character not on his race. But you have to realize that America is not a very democratic society when it comes to elected officials passing bills and putting tax dollars into things that should be in the right place.


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2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 1:43 pm

Loborojo wrote:
Padium wrote:
Throw in that the Christian religion was the original religion of the country formaly, and you get a thing that is inseperable from the history of the country and has become a ritual with no actual religious meaning, even if it has its roots in religion and is exactly word for word taken from a religion.


I beg your pardon? What about native American culture and religion before you whities even got there, or are you teaching history like in Sri Lanka, where they say to schoolkids that before the arrival of Buddhism to the island nothing existed (denying the Aboriginal Veda people's existence?


He DID say COUNTRY, and NOT continent! The indians were NOT the first members in the country, even if they WERE on the continent first. BTW Indians ARE talked about in school, and they had DIFFERENT religions. You DO know that there were a LOT of DISTINCTLY different indians, right? HECK, some even had light colored eyes and hair! They had different cultures, language, foods, AND religions!

BTW The indians were on the CONTINENT first! That does NOT mean the area where the U.S. is! It means where MEXICO, CANADA, a few others, AND the US are! So many of you guys forget that.



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21 Jan 2009, 2:59 pm

only a few indians in the USA? Right. To begin with when you celbrate thanksgiving, just rembember how you slaughtered them in Jamestow... and how the pilgrims were saved from starvation before they slaughtered them.
Or how only 200 winters ago black pilgirms smashed native american babies against brick walls because they were heathen...


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