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Loborojo
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21 Jan 2009, 2:59 pm

only a few indians in the USA? Right. To begin with when you celbrate thanksgiving, just rembember how you slaughtered them in Jamestow... and how the pilgrims were saved from starvation before they slaughtered them.
Or how only 200 winters ago black pilgirms smashed native american babies against brick walls because they were heathen...


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Padium
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21 Jan 2009, 3:08 pm

As true as it is that the first people on the continent were the natives, it was the white christians that formed the states, and they formed that country when they broke off from the British colonies when declaring independence. Officially at the time they were a white Christian state and only white men were considered full citizens with voting power, the majority of which were Christian, and that is why there is such strong historical ties between the US and Christianity. As at the time, natives were citizens of their tribes first and the US second, their opinion at that point in history didn't matter. You can still recite the Lord's prayer as a part of parliment, and have seperation of church and state, simply because it is a meaningless historical ritual based in the fact that the country itself was initially a Christian state. The prayer itself has no meaning other than its symbolic meaning in a historical context for the country. If you are Christian, in the context of the nation, it still has no meaning, and is just a ritual. If you happen to be at church, then it has religious meaning.



Loborojo
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21 Jan 2009, 9:03 pm

Padium wrote:
As true as it is that the first people on the continent were the natives, it was the white christians that formed the states, and they formed that country when they broke off from the British colonies when declaring independence. Officially at the time they were a white Christian state and only white men were considered full citizens with voting power, the majority of which were Christian, and that is why there is such strong historical ties between the US and Christianity. As at the time, natives were citizens of their tribes first and the US second, their opinion at that point in history didn't matter. You can still recite the Lord's prayer as a part of parliment, and have seperation of church and state, simply because it is a meaningless historical ritual based in the fact that the country itself was initially a Christian state. The prayer itself has no meaning other than its symbolic meaning in a historical context for the country. If you are Christian, in the context of the nation, it still has no meaning, and is just a ritual. If you happen to be at church, then it has religious meaning.


if it is meaningless then why persue it?


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2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 9:20 pm

Loborojo wrote:
only a few indians in the USA? Right. To begin with when you celbrate thanksgiving, just rembember how you slaughtered them in Jamestow... and how the pilgrims were saved from starvation before they slaughtered them.
Or how only 200 winters ago black pilgirms smashed native american babies against brick walls because they were heathen...


First of all, I never hurt ANYONE! The pilgrims did NOT slaughter the indians. And I doubt pilgrims could even safely get their hands on indian babies, let alone throw them against walls. MAN, you have ODD ideas! YEAH, americans did a LOT of bad things to the indians, took land, killed animals, etc.... But the indians were alive and well LONG after the time you make it sound like there was such wholesale slaughter.

Maybe you should get your facts straight. Just look at geronimo, for example!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo

YEAH, I already know what you will pick from this, but REALIZE that this indicates that the indians existed in about a pure a state as you could expect over a HUNDRED years after you seem to think they were obliterated. ALSO, note how he got his name, and WHO he fought!



Loborojo
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21 Jan 2009, 9:29 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
only a few indians in the USA? Right. To begin with when you celbrate thanksgiving, just rembember how you slaughtered them in Jamestow... and how the pilgrims were saved from starvation before they slaughtered them.
Or how only 200 winters ago black pilgirms smashed native american babies against brick walls because they were heathen...


First of all, I never hurt ANYONE! The pilgrims did NOT slaughter the indians. And I doubt pilgrims could even safely get their hands on indian babies, let alone throw them against walls. MAN, you have ODD ideas! YEAH, americans did a LOT of bad things to the indians, took land, killed animals, etc.... But the indians were alive and well LONG after the time you make it sound like there was such wholesale slaughter.

Maybe you should get your facts straight. Just look at geronimo, for example!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo

YEAH, I already know what you will pick from this, but REALIZE that this indicates that the indians existed in about a pure a state as you could expect over a HUNDRED years after you seem to think they were obliterated. ALSO, note how he got his name, and WHO he fought!


this show how ignorant you are about your own native his(white man's) (story), ever heard of Bury my heart and wounded Knee, too bad it isn't on the obligatory literature in your high schools, and maybe you didn't know how long Leonard Peltier (AIM leader) has been in jail on false charges (your American nelson Mandela, victim of Apartheid in America).

You know nothing about American Indian history at all, I gather

yes, teh Black Pilgrims were the worst that ovculd ever happen to them, by the way watch the Bury my heart movie made by HBO based on the book. The genocide silently continues, Lakota children continue to be ripped away from their families and are experimeted upon by the pharmaceutical industry.


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2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 10:00 pm

Loborojo wrote:
Padium wrote:
As true as it is that the first people on the continent were the natives, it was the white christians that formed the states, and they formed that country when they broke off from the British colonies when declaring independence. Officially at the time they were a white Christian state and only white men were considered full citizens with voting power, the majority of which were Christian, and that is why there is such strong historical ties between the US and Christianity. As at the time, natives were citizens of their tribes first and the US second, their opinion at that point in history didn't matter. You can still recite the Lord's prayer as a part of parliment, and have seperation of church and state, simply because it is a meaningless historical ritual based in the fact that the country itself was initially a Christian state. The prayer itself has no meaning other than its symbolic meaning in a historical context for the country. If you are Christian, in the context of the nation, it still has no meaning, and is just a ritual. If you happen to be at church, then it has religious meaning.


if it is meaningless then why persue it?


Prior to Obama, the only professed non protestant to be in office was JFK! JFK was Catholic. HECK, even OBAMA ******CLAIMS****** to be protestant, but Jerimiah Wright professed that blacks are superior over all, and blessed, and America was damned as a nation, from the beginning, and even now. It doesn't seem like wright says much about Jesus. Given the lack of reference to the contrary, it is obvious that Jesus was NOT black. He must have seemed semitic and/or roman. If his skin were dark, or he had coarse hair, it would have been mentioned. HECK, judas couldn't easily distinguish between Jesus and others, using words.

Catholics and Christians believe that Christ came to pay for our sins, was blameless, and is with God as an intermediary(Although Catholics believe in prayer to "the saints" and mary), and that all that believe in him are saved. ALSO, the bible says that if you believe in Jesus you should follow his commandments. I state the last about the bible, because many christians feel like wright, but they replace black with christian. So THEY recognize that blacks, hispanics, asians, etc... can be as blessed as whites. At least that is better than wrights RACIST views.

BTW you guys should have watched Rush Limbaugh on Hannity. NOPE, I usually don't watch/listen to EITHER! He had some GOOD points. He didn't like the cult following, said the idea of a black president is nice, but he got over that MONTHS ago, Obama was NOT vetted, like others were and, given his record as a senator, Rush didn't expect Obama to do anything significantly different. He said the expression in the faces of some people looking at obama is SCARY.

BTW Hannity translated Geithners statements to congress, and said he should get the book "2009 taxes for dummies". Geithner, a guy that was part of the conspiracy to destroy the US economy(as CEO of the US Federal reserve), is the one Obama picked to be the secretary of the treasury. Well, Congress in 1913 passed the 16th amendment. It authorized a certain organization to help FUND the treasury. If *I* dared go against it(The IRS), like MOST other Americans, they have promised to LOCK ME UP ****IN JAIL****! Well, GEITHNER has snubbed them for YEARS!! !! ! So he conspired to do things to impoverish Americans, cheated on his taxes, and NOW he is supposed to run the organization FUNDED, in part, by those taxes!?!?!?!? CRAZY! BTW, for the record, Geithner is WHITE! I am against him for WHO HE IS! I don't know what party he is in. I DON'T CARE! He also said he paid his taxes ONLY because he had to to become their boss!

BTW SOME would take umbrage over the idea of a conspiracy. To say otherwise, however, is to say he is INCOMPETENT! He can't win either way!

Frankly, Obama should get more heat for even CONSIDERING that jerk!

http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/refere ... index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Geithner



Loborojo
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21 Jan 2009, 10:05 pm

even in your language you show how oppressed and brainwashed you have been by religion.

Heck is Hell
Darn is damned
shoot should be s**t


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2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 10:31 pm

Loborojo wrote:

this show how ignorant you are about your own native his(white man's) (story), ever heard of Bury my heart and wounded Knee, too bad it isn't on the obligatory literature in your high schools, and maybe you didn't know how long Leonard Peltier (AIM leader) has been in jail on false charges (your American nelson Mandela, victim of Apartheid in America).

You know nothing about American Indian history at all, I gather

yes, teh Black Pilgrims were the worst that ovculd ever happen to them, by the way watch the Bury my heart movie made by HBO based on the book. The genocide silently continues, Lakota children continue to be ripped away from their families and are experimeted upon by the pharmaceutical industry.


First of all, you are AGAIN contradicting yourself! Wikipedia doesn't say much about AIM, but it DOES make it clear that they are troublemakers. If *I* did such things, they would probably treat me WORSE! And HECK, the American government IS being unreasonable for sentencing him to life in prison for only killing two federal agents. :roll: HECK, if I just killed a police officer, I would get the SAME sentence, EVEN if that officer was a full blooded american INDIAN!! ! Oh well, you strike me as the kind of person where, if you got aids, you would try to spread it to every straight person you could find. I guess that explains why you feel the way you do there.

As for Lakota children being experimented on, I DOUBT IT! Do you REALLY think the US is trying to kill, torture, imprison all non-whites? And HECK, a WHITE cop once threatened to shoot me because I got out of the car after he illegally stopped me! My father was hit by a cop(AGAIN, BOTH WHITE). And I have been mistreated by asians, blacks, mexicans, whites, etc....!
Somehow your pleas about such things fall on deaf ears here.

BTW Indians are not treated the best, but they ARE a protected class! They can create their OWN laws, EVEN if somewhat contrary to US or local law. They have their OWN land within the US, and apparently can buy MORE! They can get special loans and services. They have a special grievance department. They don't have to pay taxes. They CAN, if they wish, participate in the US.

Just as an example, where I am now, they were going to BUY LAND! If I bought the land, I would just get the land, and be subject to local and federal laws. *****THEY AREN'T*****! They were going to open a CASINO!(ILLEGAL HERE, but NOT ON THEIR LAND). The community actually had a vote on it, because it would change the makeup of the community. I believe they voted against it, but that gives you an idea of how things work. And the money was supposed to go to their TRIBE! They actually told the community that they would pay for the infrastructure, and mentioned how the local business would increase.

THAT is why indians sell cigarettes, and have casinos. They can easily compete, or even have a monopoly.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=in ... indian+cas
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=indian+cigarettes

So WHY do they have all that? It is an attempt to kind of makeup for what they lost, and let both cultures live together in peace. I am not saying it is perfect. FAR FROM IT! But it DOES fly in the face of many of your claims.

BLACK PILGRIMS?



Loborojo
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21 Jan 2009, 10:34 pm

2ukenkerl wrote:
Loborojo wrote:

this show how ignorant you are about your own native his(white man's) (story), ever heard of Bury my heart and wounded Knee, too bad it isn't on the obligatory literature in your high schools, and maybe you didn't know how long Leonard Peltier (AIM leader) has been in jail on false charges (your American nelson Mandela, victim of Apartheid in America).

You know nothing about American Indian history at all, I gather

yes, teh Black Pilgrims were the worst that ovculd ever happen to them, by the way watch the Bury my heart movie made by HBO based on the book. The genocide silently continues, Lakota children continue to be ripped away from their families and are experimeted upon by the pharmaceutical industry.


First of all, you are AGAIN contradicting yourself! Wikipedia doesn't say much about AIM, but it DOES make it clear that they are troublemakers. If *I* did such things, they would probably treat me WORSE! And HECK, the American government IS being unreasonable for sentencing him to life in prison for only killing two federal agents. :roll: HECK, if I just killed a police officer, I would get the SAME sentence, EVEN if that officer was a full blooded american INDIAN!! ! Oh well, you strike me as the kind of person where, if you got aids, you would try to spread it to every straight person you could find. I guess that explains why you feel the way you do there.

As for Lakota children being experimented on, I DOUBT IT! Do you REALLY think the US is trying to kill, torture, imprison all non-whites? And HECK, a WHITE cop once threatened to shoot me because I got out of the car after he illegally stopped me! My father was hit by a cop(AGAIN, BOTH WHITE). And I have been mistreated by asians, blacks, mexicans, whites, etc....!
Somehow your pleas about such things fall on deaf ears here.

BTW Indians are not treated the best, but they ARE a protected class! They can create their OWN laws, EVEN if somewhat contrary to US or local law. They have their OWN land within the US, and apparently can buy MORE! They can get special loans and services. They have a special grievance department. They don't have to pay taxes. They CAN, if they wish, participate in the US.

Just as an example, where I am now, they were going to BUY LAND! If I bought the land, I would just get the land, and be subject to local and federal laws. *****THEY AREN'T*****! They were going to open a CASINO!(ILLEGAL HERE, but NOT ON THEIR LAND). The community actually had a vote on it, because it would change the makeup of the community. I believe they voted against it, but that gives you an idea of how things work. And the money was supposed to go to their TRIBE! They actually told the community that they would pay for the infrastructure, and mentioned how the local business would increase.

THAT is why indians sell cigarettes, and have casinos. They can easily compete, or even have a monopoly.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=in ... indian+cas
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=indian+cigarettes

So WHY do they have all that? It is an attempt to kind of makeup for what they lost, and let both cultures live together in peace. I am not saying it is perfect. FAR FROM IT! But it DOES fly in the face of many of your claims.

BLACK PILGRIMS?


you are such a nitwit, I am not going to waste my breath on such biased and immature comments


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2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 10:40 pm

Loborojo wrote:
even in your language you show how oppressed and brainwashed you have been by religion.

Heck is Hell
Darn is damned
shoot should be sh**


NOPE, ***YOU*** have been brainwashed! Old dictionaries list that s word as VULGAR! Heck is just more natural for me, as is darn. It has NOTHING to do with religion. You think christians don't swear!?!?!? ARE YOU NUTS!?!?!?!? News for you, I am one of the few I know of who REALLY speaks like this. And I have met with muslims, Jewish, Hindu, Christians, Catholics, etc....

Do you REALLY think you should swear every other word?

So don't go saying that this is because I am religious. I haven't even TOUCHED a bible in over 3 years. I never seriously tried to go to church until I was about 29, and stopped before I was 38. I never really believed, but it was one way I could TRY to get something social going. It didn't work. MOST of them swore a LOT, and I didn't even swear as a little kid.



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21 Jan 2009, 10:42 pm

Loborojo wrote:

you are such a nitwit, I am not going to waste my breath on such biased and immature comments


WOW, I struck a nerve, huh? :lol: :lol: :lol:



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21 Jan 2009, 10:50 pm

This thread is beyond reasoning, and is unreclaimable.... Good day!



2ukenkerl
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21 Jan 2009, 11:06 pm

Padium wrote:
This thread is beyond reasoning, and is unreclaimable.... Good day!


NAH, as far as I am concerned, it was D.O.A.! I liked the first movie though!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042369/



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22 Jan 2009, 9:09 am

2ukenkerl wrote:
Loborojo wrote:

you are such a nitwit, I am not going to waste my breath on such biased and immature comments


WOW, I struck a nerve, huh? :lol: :lol: :lol:


you'd only wished. I just see that you have the usual ideas of any average American on the topic of Native American history, which amounts to zilch knowledge 8)


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22 Jan 2009, 9:25 am

Loborojo wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
Loborojo wrote:

you are such a nitwit, I am not going to waste my breath on such biased and immature comments


WOW, I struck a nerve, huh? :lol: :lol: :lol:


you'd only wished. I just see that you have the usual ideas of any average American on the topic of Native American history, which amounts to zilch knowledge 8)


That would be because they do not teach that aspect in schools, and most people do not care enough to research it on their own.



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22 Jan 2009, 9:51 am

Padium wrote:
Loborojo wrote:
2ukenkerl wrote:
Loborojo wrote:

you are such a nitwit, I am not going to waste my breath on such biased and immature comments


WOW, I struck a nerve, huh? :lol: :lol: :lol:


you'd only wished. I just see that you have the usual ideas of any average American on the topic of Native American history, which amounts to zilch knowledge 8)


That would be because they do not teach that aspect in schools, and most people do not care enough to research it on their own.


that's a lousy excuse. I am a foreigner and I read the books and information on them, so why can't you read about 'them savages'???


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