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ruveyn
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26 Feb 2009, 3:06 am

Dussel wrote:
Magnus wrote:
Something can be both a wave and a particle depending upon how light hits it?


"Wave" or "particle" are models to describe behaviour of "thing in itself" ("Ding ansich"). There is no reason to assume that both behaviours must exclude each other, but can be similar ways of description.

To understand nature on deeper physical level you emancipate yourself from the ideas you have from all-day experience and need to accept that the world is only to understand on very abstract and mathematical level.


Your point is well taken. Our intuition is formed by the experiences we have in a human-scaled world. This intuition is ill suited from dealing with the very, very small, the very, very large and the very, very fast and the very, very slow. That is why we need mathematical tools for dealing with the quantum reality. Our life-times are way too short to deal with the reality of evolution. The best we can do is construct a verisimilitude of the process by studying bio-chemical processes and fossils. As Kant pointed out, our consciousness is on the wrong side of the sensory barrier. We only get to see our side of the spectacles. All we have, in the end, are the phenomena. As Plato pointed out, all we get to actually see are the shadows on the wall.

ruveyn



Magnus
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26 Feb 2009, 3:32 am

Is it possible that particles don't really exist in reality?



Dussel
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26 Feb 2009, 3:39 am

Magnus wrote:
Is it possible that particles don't really exist in reality?


Depends what you mean with "reality". We can make the the following statements:

1) There exists "something" which causes phenomenological sensations (e. g. light, matter, energy)
2) This sensations are following certain pattern which able to reproduce
3) Those pattern we gave the name "natural laws"
4) Our mind does order those laws with the means of mathematics



ruveyn
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26 Feb 2009, 9:22 am

Dussel wrote:
Magnus wrote:
Is it possible that particles don't really exist in reality?


Depends what you mean with "reality". We can make the the following statements:

1) There exists "something" which causes phenomenological sensations (e. g. light, matter, energy)
2) This sensations are following certain pattern which able to reproduce
3) Those pattern we gave the name "natural laws"
4) Our mind does order those laws with the means of mathematics


Kant Lives! But his synthetic a priori apodictic judgement is still bogus. The useful true things we know are synthetic and a posteriori. We have to look and measure to find out what is what.

ruveyn



Mahigan
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28 May 2011, 4:10 pm

Hi, my son has this aspergers and based on my experience of him over the past 13 years I believe there is something profound, if not spiritual, about this. At the age of three he awoke to tell me he had dreamt of a Thundebird who's wings were so large the ocean rose to meet them. He told me night rainbows came from his beak, but not daytime rainbows, night time rainbows. He told me they were called Aurora Borealis. He further went on to explain to me the entire phenomena of what Aurora Borealis were. He's also woke one morning to tell me how light moves and bends into a black hole. He has woken up to draw symbols of things from his dreams. He describes knowing things that can not be communicated by language. He is the purest individual I have ever come accross. He is unable to connect with those who are not pure in energy, heart or mind. He sees energy and reacts to it. He has a very hard time being around people with walls, facades or those who are not living and loving from an authentic place. I don't know what to call it. I am always curious, challenged and even frustrated by/for him. He has a hard time with this world, crying for hours when the oil spill in New Mexico happened. He didn't understand how people could go about normally with such distruction happening. He is not unemotional, although if one didn't know him one would think this. He is hypersensitive and overemotional if anything. He prefers the company of animals, who can blame him? I think he senses so much, he has to shut himself down in part just to cope. He tells me he can hear everyones conversation in a crowded room and the information is too much. Since I believe in science, physics, spirit, dimensions, energies I'd have to say yes, something is happening that we don't understand with these individuals. Something pure and definately evolved beyond our capacity to understand.



Philologos
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28 May 2011, 6:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
SpazzDog wrote:
Those two statements are essentially identical. They're both saying the same thing. :D

ruveyn will do stuff like that. I was once tempted to correct him in saying that I did not need to be corrected, but I did not think it worth it.


ruveyn is an Aspie and is genetically programmed to do stuff like that.

ruveyn


This is where my baby brother chimes in to accuse you of using AS to justify your [scilicet unacceptable] behavior.



NobelCynic
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29 May 2011, 11:54 am

Welcome to Wrong Planet Mahigan and thanks for digging up this old thread, I had not read it before and parts of it were interesting. Some members would have preferred that you started a new topic rather than post in one two years old but I think you did the right thing. Most of the comments here were along the lines of “spiritually is all crap”, “it is not”, “it is so”; and a new topic would have caused them all to be repeated. Assuming you read it before posting in it, there is no need for that.

The suggestion that autism could enhance ones spiritual perception has been made in other threads, and it may be true for some and the opposite for others. Many aspies whose interests are focused on science become contemptuous of the idea and will not only not consider the possibility but deride those who do. For others it could cause them to turn inward in an attempt to determine if there is a spirit of themselves apart from their bodies.

If you would like to read something that might help you understand your son, you might try "Autism and the God Connection” by William Stillman which was suggested in a similar thread . I only read the first couple of chapters because it is a book written to parents of autistic children. Being a childless autistic adult there was not much in it for me but you might find it worthwile.


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ruveyn
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29 May 2011, 12:08 pm

There is no such thing as spirit. There is only live functioning body for alive thing.

ruveyn



Heresdan
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02 Mar 2012, 2:06 am

It is part of my religious world view [Swedenborgian Christianity] that people are born with illnesses & disabilities for reasons that we cannot understand [Divine Providence]. This does not mean that those people are any less spiritually relevant than others, just that there may be certain challenges in their lives that other may not have. What affects the mind affects the brain and what affects the brain conversely affects the mind.

I believe [and have confirmed in my own life] that autism can be partially compensated for spiritually; that is to say that when you elevate and expand consciousness to see things for what they are in and of themselves, you have a much greater basis for relating to others & the world. There are spiritual things inside of you, and things in the natural world: once you learn how what you think & will affects the world around you and are consciously aware of this connection, and, as a result, opperate from your understanding through the will, you can see the world much more like a non-autistic person does.
I personally feel that there is nothing wrong with my spirit, only my material body & seek to expand my capacities & capabilities from the spiritual -through to the naturual. Though my autism could be considered atypical [I have other neurological & medical problems that made it worse] I have recovered alot of functioning and cognitive control through meditation pracitices and psychological skills at an important time in my personal and neurological development.
This doesn't mean that I am not genetically autistic, only that you are able to compensate. Once you develop a coherent set of values & principles and see the world in this light, you have a basis for relating to others with similar views. I view autistic spectrum disorders as a syndrome: i.e. having both a genetic & psychological component. Once you peel away the psychological stuff, the other stuff becomes much easier to manage.



Lord_Gareth
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02 Mar 2012, 3:15 am

ruveyn wrote:
There is no such thing as spirit. There is only live functioning body for alive thing.

ruveyn


Now, in perfect fairness, no one's been able to so much as touch the whole problem of why living things, which are precisely as much a collection of atoms as non-living things, behave so differently from them. We've cracked quite a bit about the machinery of various kinds of bodies, and our understanding of brain chemistry continues to grow daily, but at the end of the day all anyone's got on, "So...why do we perceive?" is, "You know what, go to hell and leave us alone, we've got no fraggin' clue."

This is not to say that I support mystic or religious viewpoints on the matter - just to say that the ultimate mystery of consciousness is still one that's going to take awhile to figure out. After all, we've been starving ourselves to death in caves over this crap since at least Ancient Greece [/reference], and it shows no signs of slowing down or stopping to date.



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02 Mar 2012, 4:21 am

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WhiteWidow
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03 Mar 2012, 11:20 am

This is like blaming it on an alagory similar to Plato's Atlantis. A lot of people think Atlantis existed, even if it did there is no evidence to prove that it did, other than an ALAGORY in his Republic.

So just like these believers, they believe something and described something from their perspective, not a tested, experimented and documented history of events or anything of the sort though.

So all the evidence based off of AS is scientific, it's a wiring of the brain. It's pathways out of sync, it's excess levels of chemicals, it's an absent amount as well. It's disconnection b/w a frequency of chemicals in the interactions of an Aspie.

So do I think it's a spiritual elevation? I might at some times, but no I don't generally. Who was it though that told me, it was somewhere in a book... it said that those who suffer greatly for long periods of time can experience a divine connection. What's more divine than going insane because of loneliness? Or going insane because your mind is constantly racing and over analyzing everything which of course, in turn, brings you to more conclusions, and ultimately more theories.

So because of all this elevated science, misunderstanding and general ignorance people place Aspergers as some divine spiritual, or unknown disability that allows us to hyperfocus and articulate much better than an NT. However, that's not the case b/c we know that science is at work, and most of it has to do with Anxiety. B/c usually when a person experiences anxiety their processing speeds increase, or in our case it becomes hyperfocused.



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03 Mar 2012, 11:26 am

bunny-in-the-moon wrote:
Just wanted opinions on a theory I've been stumbling across within the margins of Hasidic Judaism.

Well, JSYK, Maimonides which is considered the greatest authority in Jewish Halacha, would have considered such mysticism as idolatry.


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ruveyn
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03 Mar 2012, 11:29 am

WhiteWidow wrote:
This is like blaming it on an alagory similar to Plato's Atlantis. A lot of people think Atlantis existed, even if it did there is no evidence to prove that it did, other than an ALAGORY in his Republic.

.


Not -The Republic-. Timeus and Critias.

ruveyn



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08 Oct 2013, 3:32 pm

God loves Aspies and Auties and NTs. Jesus was bullied, saw and heard things that unbelievers didn't, finally died for all of us to be set free of fear and bitterness, accusation, envy and jealousy, inability to love and be loved, and all manifestations of sin. I respectfully suggest that all people can receive peace through trusting him and meditating (obsessing on) thoughts like "I am fearfully and wonderfully made, and that my soul knows right well." (Psalm 39), and "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16). This does not require emotion but rational thought and decision making. This has nothing to do with Catholicism or Protestantism or other man made traditions. I don't know where I am on the human spectrum (never quite fit in, but never diagnosed with anything - (Mother wanted me to be more social etc.) but I've found love and acceptance in Jesus Christ, also understanding and abilities I did not have before. The church has helped me grow, even when it seems crazy and difficult. So that's my view and I thank you for reading this.
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08 Oct 2013, 3:57 pm

Biblical aspie, 50 bc: I see turnips attacking Jupiter!
Biblical Jew, 50 bc: Hah, those Romans won't have any crops this year! Hahahah!

Anyways, even though I highly doubt that aspies are the reason for prophets, or that we are more
spiritual, we can be just as any other person can.


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