The cart before the horse...

Page 1 of 2 [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

25 Mar 2009, 9:35 am

Gremmie wrote:
Even so, if someone had been a friend for a while and they suddenly came out with delarations of love that would probably scare most people. You might perhaps have feelings of attraction or interest, you might really like them... but love? That's too much too fast... a bit too Romeo and Juliet. I swear those two can only get away with that sort of behaviour because they're teenagers.


I'm not saying it's "suddenly" transitioning from friendship to love... that is a more gradual procedure...

Although, to be completely honest, it may seem like that to the other party, given the general body language issues aspies have...



billsmithglendale
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,223

25 Mar 2009, 10:18 am

ToadOfSteel wrote:
of all the women I have fallen for over the years, one of them I met while doing an acting stint for live musical theater.


8O

Buddy, if you have the tenacity to do that, you've gotta have bigger balls than me -- I'm waaaay too shy (and disinterested) to do something like that. I encourage you to do more of that, it's the perfect mixed-gender general interest forum that you will meet someone dateable and interested.



billsmithglendale
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,223

25 Mar 2009, 10:19 am

Gremmie wrote:
Even so, if someone had been a friend for a while and they suddenly came out with delarations of love that would probably scare most people. You might perhaps have feelings of attraction or interest, you might really like them... but love? That's too much too fast... a bit too Romeo and Juliet. I swear those two can only get away with that sort of behaviour because they're teenagers.


Yes -- maybe this is too progressive, but I wouldn't ever tell someone I loved them until we had at least had sex a few times, and really gotten to know each other, warts and all.



makuranososhi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,805
Location: Banned by Alex

25 Mar 2009, 11:10 am

ToadOfSteel wrote:
makuranososhi wrote:
We disagree on dating, LPP. That hasn't changed. I don't presume that I have 'feelings' for someone when I have asked them out; I have an interest. Curiosity. Desire to know more. Superficial attraction, even if it was only finding the book she was reading to be of interest to me. You continue to identify it with a stronger emotional state, and as long as we have these different standards then you are not going to understand the point of the approach I suggest. Yes, the point is to determine compatibility... and to have a chance to meet people, one has to keep asking and getting to know members of the gender they are attracted to.
Dating based on superficial attraction is what I see as "putting the cart before the horse"... You're putting yourself in all these situations where you just know that it wouldn't work out anyway, so why bother?

Quote:
One dates to see if feelings grow; one does not date once feelings have developed... otherwise it will almost assuredly be one-sided as the relationship did not 'grow' together.
I'm not saying that you should have no interactions with the person in question at all until you date... that's actually closer to the "dating complete strangers" method that you describe. There are plenty of other ways to interact with members of the opposite sex that you're attracted to other than dating... Take me for instance: of all the women I have fallen for over the years, one of them I met while doing an acting stint for live musical theater. The rest I met in various groups from my church... In all these cases, I was pretty much not attracted to any of them from the start, rather it was spending time in these various activities with these women that my attraction eventually grew out of... and that, by far, feels far more natural than walking up to a complete stranger and asking for a date...


We also disagree - I don't -know- that anything is going to fail, and accept that in dating there will monumentally more failures than long term successes. What you describe is falling for them from afar, spending time loosely together but not intimately (not meaning sexually), and then trying to start a relationship. Dating, in my mind, IS that process of spending time together to determine whether or not one is interested; when this happens on a one-sided basis, then the pattern of rejection isn't hard to identify. However, I put this forth to you - you've said repeatedly that what you are doing isn't working... isn't it possible that something that may seem a little foreign might have some merit? While I have asked a stranger out, more often than not it is when I first notice someone.... when I was young, I often had such attachments that were the result of my admiration without any real interaction between us. When there is a burden of expectation, as can been inferred from such claims of adulation, then it is worth considering that the timing/pacing of approach may be off.


M.


_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.

For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!


ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

25 Mar 2009, 1:31 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
Buddy, if you have the tenacity to do that, you've gotta have bigger balls than me -- I'm waaaay too shy (and disinterested) to do something like that. I encourage you to do more of that, it's the perfect mixed-gender general interest forum that you will meet someone dateable and interested.
It's not necessarily due to having balls or anything like that, it's more having to do with the fact that my mother was the music director, and I'm a bass with perfect pitch that can read music... something that is incredibly valuable to a music director of a musical theater group (a field that tends to attract more tenors than basses)... My mother ended up giving me a guilt trip (something she's very good at), so I basically ended up doing that (many years in a row, actually)...

The form of acting I tend to practice naturally is a variant of Method Acting, in which I actually become the role that I play... This comes from the fact that I'm not that good at pretending to be someone I'm not (most aspies can't do that well), so I get around it by literally becoming that role while I'm on stage... it's effective, but it requires a significant amount of rehearsal to pull off correctly... not something I can do on the spot... It's also something that only works in a linear fashion (that is, because everything is rehearsed, there is only one train of emotions, and I, as the actor, know exactly where it's going... so I don't have to gauge emotional reactions and make predictions at the same time...)

This may have influenced how I interacted with the woman I was talking about... since she was essentially playing the wife of my character, some of that "character" may have leaked out onto my own personal "character" and allowed me to feel that... it was just on the cusp of being a relationship, but then the show ended and I rarely saw her after that... it was the closest I ever got to having a girlfriend... she was also the only woman in my life who returned such feelings back at me...

That said, the group I mentioned before is mostly a high school group... and I don't know of any college theater groups near where I live... but yeah, I get what you mean by doing more of that... Sometimes I wonder if I should have majored in theater arts... since live theater is a field that persists over time, I could theoretically get into a career doing that...



billsmithglendale
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,223

25 Mar 2009, 4:35 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:

This may have influenced how I interacted with the woman I was talking about... since she was essentially playing the wife of my character, some of that "character" may have leaked out onto my own personal "character" and allowed me to feel that... it was just on the cusp of being a relationship, but then the show ended and I rarely saw her after that... it was the closest I ever got to having a girlfriend... she was also the only woman in my life who returned such feelings back at me...

That said, the group I mentioned before is mostly a high school group... and I don't know of any college theater groups near where I live... but yeah, I get what you mean by doing more of that... Sometimes I wonder if I should have majored in theater arts... since live theater is a field that persists over time, I could theoretically get into a career doing that...


Man, sometimes it's so hard to read stuff like this, because I totally remember feeling the same way. Wanting something to happen so badly that I would fixate on the one person showing any positive signs at all, yet they never seemed to take it to the next level.

The thing about it is though, if she wanted to go further, one of you probably would have proposed spending some time outside of the group activity with eachother, like practicing lines, going out for coffee, etc. It is in those private, voluntary moments where things happen. Usually it happens because both of you want to have an excuse to develop the blooming relationship you feel.

Example -- in one case, it was a girl I knew from class, and she wanted to study together. I had made the effort to talk to her on the walk back to the dorm from class after I picked up that maybe she liked me (she said "bless you" when I sneezed, sometimes it is that subtle). The chemistry was there, we both felt it, we just needed an excuse to be around each other that followed the "rules" (for women, don't be too forward and obvious, for guys, play into that and behave). We had our study session, and hit it off (though we were even talking a bit on the phone before that). Before you knew it, I was giving her a massage that same night and kissing her on her cheek as she slept over in my door living room.

It doesn't always move that fast, but it can, depending on the chemistry and how sure you are about what that person might want from you. Conversely, if the person isn't that keen on spending time with you that they don't have to, e.g. you are only friends at work, school, or in the group, but no effort to spend time outside of it, it's pretty much certain that person isn't interested, and you shouldn't get your hopes up.